November 13, 2012
People are people. Profound, I know, but it explains why I have no heroes.
I don't mean to pick on General David Petraeus, but he's a good -- and latest example. The general and, until last week, CIA director, was by all measures and accounts a good and honorable man. And he still is, save for the human foible of an extramarital affair that caused him to resign.
But that explains why I don't have "heroes." I admire aspects and qualities about people. I marvel at their individual achievements or the selfless actions they do for the greater good. Reflections on this past Veterans Day are a perfect example of that.
Because we are all human, however, we are bound to be imperfect. Put a person on a pedestal and it is bound to come unbolted. Petraeus is just this week's unmooring. Before him, there was Lance Armstrong, Joe Paterno, and a long list before them.
These are all good people in their individual achievements and their actions for community, but they are human. They are not immune to greed, hubris, lust, wrath, envy, all the terrible undoings.
The ones we call our heroes are bound to let us down, like the star athlete selling autographs so he can feed his drug addiction or the politician who wants to run a country but can't manage his own zipper.
So I don't have heroes. I do not enjoy being struck dumb when they are struck down, so I don't set myself up for it. I respect the coaching talents of Joe Paterno, the drive of Lance Armstrong, the command of David Petraeus. And if I got to shake their hands, I'd say, "It's an honor to meet you." It would be.
But I would not say, "You're my hero." It simply wouldn't be true.
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Courseaire 6 months, 1 week ago
What you can have are "heroes" for a specific moment or event. After that they become human and have to do something heroic again to earn that distinction. They there would be no disappointment.
skylinefirepest 6 months, 1 week ago
John, you have dissappointed me so...you were my hero but now this column indicates that you are human after all with flaws and warts!! Actually I do believe in heroes, not the sports kind but the real kind. Like the man who, at nineteen years old picked up a WP bomb from the belly of his B29 headed for Tokyo and threw it out saving the lives of nine other men and "winning" him the Medal of Honor. Like the firemen who climbed the stairs that day in New York and KNOWING they were likely to die went up anyway! There are true heroes, John, and even with all their human flaws they will remain heroes!
JohnANagy 6 months, 1 week ago
Skyline, I agree wholeheartedly with your perspective. It's the QUIET ones, who do their jobs -- and so much good at the same time -- who deserve hero status.
geoffcutler 6 months, 1 week ago
Gen. Petraeus is a war hero, and a major military strategist. As architect of the surge in Iraq, he saved the war from going South in a very bad way. His indiscretions with woman are unrelated to the extent that intelligence has not been compromised. And after Clinton...I thought none of that kind of thing was to matter anymore....
The more important question is, what did Petraeus know about Benghazi, and will he testify? Why did he know that the attacks were terrorist attacks but say in the first hearings that they were the result of a movie trailer when he knew that was not true? Many questions need to be answered.
brideshead 6 months, 1 week ago
I went through a phase of having no heroes, based on precisely this sort of revelation of clay feet. But then I realized that "clay feet" defines humans, and it is still possible to find that some people are more worthy of our admiration based on what they achieve in spite of being human. It is almost a cliche that all of us sin, so I think we just give lip service to that now. But in fact, it is true. So let's just take as a starting point that every human we know has done or is doing something less than noble. But what about the rest of their achievements? Can we not admire those? Is it not worth something that they rose above mediocrity, dared greatly, made a difference? I still have heroes, I just don't expect them to be perfect anymore.
JD 6 months, 1 week ago
The more important question is, what did Petraeus know about Benghazi, and will he testify?
Well being fired does not make him not able to testify. Come on Geoff think for once and quit being a parrot.
JohnANagy 6 months, 1 week ago
Geoff, I'm not taking away any of Petraeus' achievements, and he's an honorable man in that way. Brideshead, perhaps, summed it up nicely. I don't think we throw out all of someone's achievements and good they've done because of their philandering ways. But again, this isn't clear cut. It goes both ways. Consider someone like Bernie Madoff, for much of his life a decent guy, a leader in his field and a reasonable philanthropist. Does that all get dismissed because of the sins he committed in the latter years of his life? Not all "good" people are good. Not all "bad" people are bad. So, as I said in the beginning of my post: People are people. Respect? Admire? Sure. Worship? Adore? No.
geoffcutler 6 months, 1 week ago
I know you weren't, and I don't think his extramarital activities make him less a war hero, even though, funnily enough, I don't agree w/ COIN. Would you say, besides their wealth of human frailties, that our founders were heroes? Are those who put their lives on the line to protect others, say soldiers. firemen, police... are they heroes? How about Capt. Sullivan, who through incredible skill, poise, and courage put that jet down on the Hudson, thus saving all lives on board? I don't know...I just think there are heroes in the world, and they can be inspirational for the rest of us, despite their mistakes, indiscretions and frailties..
JD, as of this morning, Petraeaus has reversed yesterday's willingness to testify. My understanding is that he will have to be subpoenaed. Who am I parroting?
JD 6 months, 1 week ago
Who am I parroting?
Ignorant Fox talking points. So he will be subpoenaed. He will still testify. Here are links for you to educate yourself than live in a bubble.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/petraeus-testify-thursday-libya-article-1.1201791
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/14/15162651-petraeus-to-testify-at-benghazi-hearing?lite
http://abcnews.go.com/US/cia-director-petraeus-testify-benghazi/story?id=17714560#.UKPKH4fAdI4
by JD
geoffcutler 6 months, 1 week ago
"Ignorant Fox talking points." JD
Actually, it's FOX, oh wise one, and say what you will, the network has led since day one on this story that no-one else would cover until after the election when it mysteriously turned into a sex scandal. No smoke and mirrors there. What ignorant talking points are you referring to.
JD 6 months, 1 week ago
The more important question is, what did Petraeus know about Benghazi, and will he testify? Why did he know that the attacks were terrorist attacks but say in the first hearings that they were the result of a movie trailer when he knew that was not true? Many questions need to be answered.
Don't be such a big dope Geoffy. I found this entire post of yours as just pulled excerpts from this piece. And your assertion that, " the network has led since day one on this story that no-one else would cover until after the election when it mysteriously turned into a sex scandal." is why I think you are a conspiracy nut.
Actually, MSNBC, Politico, CBS, and other news agencies have covered this as well before the election. Heck even Al-Jazeera had a piece on it before the election. But only theblaze (glenn becks site) and Fox "news" are the only ones playing the angle that this is some cabal like smear job.
The issue is did Petraeus' extra marital affair violate national security by allowing access to his computer by a non government agent?
geoffcutler 6 months, 1 week ago
John, I thought you raised an interesting topic for discussion. But... well...never mind.
JD 6 months, 1 week ago
But... well...never mind.
Sounds like a personal problems.Discussion is a two way street. Your form of a discussion is a one way street. Don't you think national security is important, Geoff? Isn't Petraeus going to testify like we all want him too? What other problem do you have and would like to discuss?
or you know... be shrinking violet when your points are challenged Geoffy.
geoffcutler 6 months, 1 week ago
You're just such an obnoxious cretin, you're not worth debating, and never have been.
JD 6 months, 1 week ago
Ahh your feelings are hurt? If you have to resort to name calling then you obviously had nothing of substance anyway. But for now no more tears Geoffy.
by JD
geoffcutler 6 months ago
John, this thing you've raised about heroism is an intriguing intellectual question. Reading over what you've written, it's hard to argue against the truth that all humans are imperfect, thus, even if one performs heroic acts, over the course of that life, one is going to succumb to greed, hubris, wrath and envy. That is a given from the day one is born. It's the "human condition." So, is it possible, and I raise the question because the pessimism of the assertion that there are no heroes seems so terminally fatal, depressing if you will, that heroism can exist as singular acts of valor, courage, and personal integrity within and during that life of given depravity?
I guess I find the subject intriguing because the world seems so desperately in need of heroes. One wants there to be heroes, or heroic deeds,because they are inspirational, instructive, and help to guide us that there are forces out there stronger than ourselves. Heroism is a positive force, optimistic for the constant pursuit of good in a world of given failure.
JD 6 months ago
Well Geoffy just because you are unable to be the better person or to be that beacon of light does not mean it does not exist. But explaining that to you is telling a blind man what the beauty of a sunset looks like at dusk.
There are those that spend the extra time with a child, volunteer to improve their communities, and those that encourage others to succeed. Hero is an umbrella term for those that made a special difference in someones life. So hero is subjective and almost a personal experience.
skylinefirepest 6 months ago
Let's see...knowing some of what makes JD and Geoff work....who would I pick as being a better servant for mankind???? Why Geoff, of course, because JD seems to think that he is too important to do menial things!!
geoffcutler 6 months ago
Volunteer to serve their community? You apparently don't know me very well, JD.
JD 6 months ago
Actually I could say the same thing to you Geoffy. I know you well enough as a whiney doper Geoff. Do you ever volunteer for Family Promise, give out food during the holiday, or much else besides preach your hate Geoffy?
And Pestilence, I just laugh at you for coming in and contributing nothing more than your typical BS. Shows you don't get out much and I don't expect you to do anything that doesn't benefit yourself Pesty.
skylinefirepest 6 months ago
Actually JD, you're so full of yourself ( as in full of crap ) that you don't know what service to your fellow humanity is. And I'll only give you one tidbit of info about me...I've been a VOLUNTEER fireman for twenty one years...volunteer means that we don't get paid, and we put our own gas in our own cars and quite frequently pay for lodging for schools and sometimes even buy our own gear or clothing. And since most of the public thinks that we have all paid people in Moore County there's tons of people that don't even realize that we do it for free! So you benefit from what we do and you somehow think that it's "owed" to you. But as you have indicated that you think such things are beneath your station in life then I seriously doubt that you have a clue about what anyone does in Moore County to benefit their fellow man.
JD 6 months ago
( as in full of crap )
Only you buddy. I've done all the things I have asked you. So you find it beneath you to give out food, spend time with the destitute?
But you will dress up and go speeding off to use those government resources that you hate and despise so much.
I know you are a hypocrite Geoffy and cry some more.
geoffcutler 6 months ago
Fascinating thread, John.
skylinefirepest 6 months ago
JD, I must admit that it's hard to argue with you on an interesting subject...because you so frequently argue from a basis of ignorance. What was your comment about "dressing up and go speeding off to use those government resources" directed at? You don't have a clue what my thoughts are on government...only that I don't like or respect the current president and his crooked administration. But since you brought it up I'll tell you. The current government is too big and has it's fingers into places they don't belong. This gov. has brought out new regulations that tend to stifle business and without business the economy will not improve and people will not get back to work. This gov. is putting us ALL back on the plantation! And the "gimme's" just voted for another term.
JD 6 months ago
Ahh Pesty got your feelings hurt again also? That's ok you'll agree with me like you usually do. What's this nonsense about a 'plantation?' Are you making that joke to be like an oh so edgy kid? I knew you were a racist, but atleast Geoff has a friend to talk with now on those important issues like 'plantation life.'
geoffcutler 6 months ago
JD, you have said you are not Dusty, and he has said he is not you, even though your posts are remarkably similar. Have you made your true identity known on this website, and would you say the things on here you do, both personal attacks and otherwise, if your true identity were known? I doubt it.
skylinefirepest 6 months ago
No JD, you didn't hurt my feelings...you'd have to know how and you obviously don't. You didn't answer my question though. Maybe you can't remember what you meant when you said it. At any rate, I do agree with you once in a while but beyond that you're generally on the other side of the fence.
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