May 7, 2012
I had a brief visit in the office this morning from Heidi Thompson, the West End woman who Pinehurst Police arrested last week and charged with stealing three campaign signs that oppose Amendment One. I shook her hand and welcomed her back to my office to sit down and talk.
Before I could offer a cup of coffee, Mrs. Thompson became quite emotional and angry about the content we've had online the last few days regarding her, her beliefs, her position and her family. Mrs. Thompson didn't stay long, although she was welcomed to come back and talk. I let her express her emotion and anger and move on.
Now, Mrs. Thompson and I find ourselves on the opposite sides of the Amendment One issue. We also view her act of taking signs differently. She felt justified; I feel taking property not belonging to you is theft and, where it's tied to political speech, a violation of the First Amendment.
Before you either heap praise or scorn at the bottom of this post, I stand WITH Mrs. Thompson in saying the dialogue on this matter has grown out of control. It isn't dialogue if each side is shouting and not hearing what the others have to say. What, you don't WANT to hear what the others have to say? Fine, but don't expect then to get listened to.
See, I respect Mrs. Thompson's right to express her views and work for the causes she believes in; just because I don't agree with all those positions doesn't mean she shouldn't have the right. I also respect the positions of her many supporters, as well as her opponents.
Notice the word I'm using here? "Respect." Agreeable people can disagree agreeably, without spewing hate speech and trying to denigrate the other. And no, your use of The Bible to back your view doesn't give your position any greater weight than the opposite side, which can also be supported elsewhere in The Bible.
Are we really a community filled with hate and intolerance? Are we really incapable of shaking the hand of the one who disagrees with us? Are we really modeling the right BEHAVIORS for our children?
Come Wednesday, May 9, nothing will have changed. Whichever way this Amendment One vote goes, we'll still need to rise in the morning, feed our kids, water our tomatoes, take the Traffic Circle to work, buy groceries, get to our kids' baseball and soccer games and talk to neighbors and co-workers who don't always think like we do. Let's all realize what builds community and what destroys it.
Come May 9, may there be reconciliation, not reconstruction.
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Comments
Jiminy 1 year ago
Well-said. A question, though: when you say: "And no, your use of The Bible to back your view doesn't give your position any greater weight than the opposite side, which can also be supported elsewhere in The Bible", do you mean the Bible is the best source for arguing the merits, either way?
dustyrhoades 1 year ago
Perhaps this homily on respect might have been delivered when a letter writer was tossing the word "abomination" around.
JohnANagy 1 year ago
Jiminy, I mean that The Bible offers conflicting views all throughout on issues, rendering it an ill-fitting source of authority on whatever your particular viewpoint.
FightFireWithFire 1 year ago
Well said. I may not always agree with the way people go about things, especially when they use their version of religion as an excuse. People have the right in this country to express their beliefs lawfully. There is no religious text that I know of that condones the action of taking something that does not belong to you. Not one. There are plenty of other constructive and lawful ways to get your point across in this country, in the name of religion or otherwise. I have seen firsthand what religion, when taken to extremes, can do to people. I have been to Kuwait and Iraq. It would amaze the American public to really know what goes on in those countries in the name of religion.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
This feller must not be from around these parts....Sorry, John, couldn't resist.
Notice the response from our solicitor to the north. "Perhaps this homily on respect might have been delivered when a letter writer was tossing the word "abomination" around."
Tough to have a respectful back and forth when anything you comment on at this website is met with that type of kindergarten sandbox response. The days of Reagan/O'Neill are gone, and this is why.
moonchild7 1 year ago
They're gone because of The Congressional "Class" of 1994." They were rebelling against EVIL Bill Clinton. They JUDGED him and did whatever they could to "get rid" of him because of his PERSONAL INDISRESTIONS. They declared themselves GOD"S HENCHMEN and spent year after year doing everything they could to bring him to their version of justice. He was Impeached by the House but NOT by the Senate and we've been in an unbelievable Hell-Hole ever since. "God's Right-Winged Warriors" are taking this country to the LOWEST of the LOW. Yes, Mrs. Thompson deserves to be heard. Why didn't she think to just write a Letter to the Pilot instead of Stealing signs? Why doesn't she just stand at a polling place on May 8th with her vote YES sign? Why are people like her wanting to "Clean up and white wash" the world? I've been around and experienced enough of the behaviors of people like Mrs. Thompson's to know how UNWELL they are because they are so ridgid in their beliefs. I've yet to understand how these people constantly talk about a "Loving God" when all they preach is intollerance.
dustyrhoades 1 year ago
Preacher Geoff must have gone to a more sophisticated kindergarten than I did.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
Oh...yeah...John, I forgot to mention, he's even name-calling me now. Any questions?
dustyrhoades 1 year ago
I still don't know why you object to being called "Preacher." I thought you respected all religion, except for Islam and Jeremiah Wright.
And you certainly like to preach, so long as it's to me or other liberals. You give your fellow travelers a pass whatever insults they spew. So if the collar fits, wear it with pride, Reverend.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
I guess I was responding to what I thought was a valid plea by the editor in the above post. It is relevant that efforts to have a good back and forth dialog are ruined, and friendships like that of Reagan and O'Neill at the end of the day are virtually impossible when someone like you chooses to call people names. It is as I said, what I remember from the kindergarten sandbox. You choose to mock and slander. It causes others to react in kind and thus drags down the entire website.
dustyrhoades 1 year ago
There have been plenty of conversations here, Geoff, that have gotten nasty and been locked without any input from me at all. And you ain't never said a mumblin' word about it.
And you have yet to call anyone out for "name calling" when they've been referring to me as "fat," "stupid," "pig," etc.
I was also making what I thought was a valid observation (and I wasn't the only one who thought so) , but you've gotten to the point where you're such a delicate little princess that you call anything other than slobbering admiration "name calling."
I believe I've already told you what you can do with your one-sided pious sanctimony, Preacher. That suggestion still stands.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
Dusty, we've been through this before. I know other people do it. I also asked others to stop it when you asked me to, and pointed the examples out to me. Bottom line? You and I are columnists for this paper, and we owe it to the community, the paper, and ourselves to try to set an example. I would think that this would be obvious to you.
dustyrhoades 1 year ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
dustyrhoades 1 year ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
moonchild7 1 year ago
I went to my polling place this afternoon to vote. A literal "little old lady" (I think about 90) sitting in her chair just outside the line that advocates could stand/sit jumped up out of her chair when she saw me coming. Came over with her little card and shoved it in my hand. I looked down to read it and it was a "Vote Yes for Marriage". I looked at her and said, "I'm not voting for this, it's discrimination." She came after me talking away, "You're against marriage" she yelled. "I am not" I yelled back. I'm not predjudiced like you are." She goes, "You're not right." I left it at that and went in to vote. I AVOIDED her on my way out. Geoff, are we supposed to be ACCOSTED at the polls? Anyone else get "ACCOSTED"? Geoff, you really need to think about the high level of absurdity that you've taken your mind to.
fugitiveguy 1 year ago
Geoff, I don't know why you waste your time. The difference is clear for all to see. Just do your thing and let him do his.
fugitiveguy 1 year ago
"A literal "little old lady" (I think about 90)"
It was I, "fugitive guy" master of disguise.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
Moon, sorry, I don't know what you're talking about, and I don't think you need to get down on me because you don't know how I voted... do you? When I got to my polling place, I was run down by an "against" Amendment One whatever they are called, and she asked me if I needed any literature on the subject. I said, "Are you kidding? Thanks, I've heard more than I could ever possibly need to hear on the subject."
Fugitive, what did he say? I was out with friends.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
Fugitive, it's never a waste to try and make better what isn't so good. There are many famous quotes that express this idea, none of which I'll repeat here and now, because they overstate the case of what this website deals with. But...if we don't always try to do better, then... what are we doing...trying to be worse?
fugitiveguy 1 year ago
Geoff, I can't remember specifics. Just more of the usual childish sniping. Its so tiring. Sorry, I have no business offering you advice, I actually have moderated (mostly) what I post due to examples set by you and a few others.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
No worries...your advice in this particular case may be more than sound, no matter what the old sages say.
dustyrhoades 1 year ago
Funny...I point out numerous examples of conservatives calling other liberals names (none of which were deleted by the editors or criticized by Geoff) and THAT'S what gets deleted. I also note that the post agreeing with me was deleted without comment.
That's why I said conservatives get more leeway.
JohnANagy 1 year ago
Thank you all for the back and forth, but it seems to be undermining my point that what separates us is not nearly as valuable or meaningful as what bonds us to the other. So to all: save the finger pointing and label pasting for another spot on the site.
Courseaire 1 year ago
I love all those passionate posters, whether I agree with them or not. It is enlightening in trying to figure out where they are coming from and why they have this passion. It helps me understand the differences we have as individuals. Over the year that I have been following The Pilot posters, I have learned to accept their passion, knowing that their experiences are different then mine and therefore their way of thinking is also different. And just because their thinking is different, does not mean that they are wrong. I know that two individuals can look at the same set of facts and come to two separate and completely different conclusions. Therefore I tend to temper my responses to their opinions. I know that I am not always right and will listen to the others opinions and in trying to understand their viewpoint and by doing so, I sometimes actually change my way of thinking. You each should try and do the same - it really makes life real when you can walk in others shoes. There really isn't any need to call others names, especially in retaliation to their perceived attacks. Temper your remarks before you hit "Post Comment"
fugitiveguy 1 year ago
Good advice Courseaire.
moonchild7 1 year ago
RESPECT: A feeling of appreciative often deferential regard, esteem. People who "dedicate" themselves to a religion and it's beliefs usually are not allowed to be "bonded" with those outside of that religion. They constantly are required to "try to" convert the other person because otherwise they are speaking with the DEVIL. It's a very successful way to control "the flock" and thru history has resulted in myriad wars, cruelties, and horrors. I understand Mr. Nagy that you want us to have more "civil" conversations but when people are passionate about the subject matter and who owe NO ALLIEGENCE to a religion but rather to an alliegence to making the world we live in a better place for ALL of us then a few outbursts of name-calling and/or expletives shouldn't be censored. If it goes on and on then I get it but not if the respondent has been otherwise making sensible arguments.
fugitiveguy 1 year ago
"People who "dedicate" themselves to a religion and it's beliefs usually are not allowed to be "bonded" with those outside of that religion. They constantly are required to "try to" convert the other person because otherwise they are speaking with the DEVIL."
Moon, I don't want to be offensive to you but when you post things like this it shows you as being completely out of touch with reality. Surely there are some who fit the description but it has been my experience they are very few in numbers. The closest anyone has come to "pushing" their religion on me would probably be Jehovah's Witnesses and even they were pleasant. I simply spoke to them for a few minutes on the front step, took their literature and promptly deposited it in the trash. It was not a big event. I am not religious, other than funerals I very seldom go to church so you could hardly label me a holy roller. The left simply will not miss an opportunity to take a shot at Christians. Maybe on the issue of gay marriage some of them saw in it a little payback.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. The only time I've ever been presented with religious material I didn't ask for was by the JW's. And like you said, they have been extremely polite every time, even when I say no thank you! Not an issue.
moonchild7 1 year ago
Geoff and fugitiveguy, you just haven't had enough experience with as many different religions and their "congregations/members" that I have. Simply put. I "minored" in Philosphy and Religion in College and because I was brought up without having any religious DOCTRINE beaten into me I see things much differently. And I am not the only one who says that. Many of my friends find it quite refreshing to actually know someone without religious predjudice (I dislike all of them). I am NOT ANTI-CHRISTIAN, fugitiveguy. You obviously don't read or understand what I write. I am against the religious intollerance and dogmatism of ALL RELIGIONS. I thought you'd know Geoff that ALL religions try to CONVERT others into their "CLUB". They couldn't exist without it. Some are just very subtile about it while others like the "fire and brimstone". I've attended seance's with the Spiritualists, Hare Khrisna offerings and prayers, Meditations with a Buddhist Monk, a Greek Orthodox Mass and Chant, Dinner with UFOlogists, Easter Service at the National Cathedral in DC, Pentacostal "Speaking in tongues" Church Service's, Catholic Mass's, Baptist Revivals(in the Deep South), Sun Yung Moon's Universalists Church Service in Wash., DC, and on and on. They ALL tried to get me to return! They were polite, although a few were a bit forceful. Oh and to let you know that I'm really okay, I had my SOUL CLEANSED by the Spiritualists before we started worshiping with the DEAD. Been doing really well ever since.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
All very interesting...Moon, but I believe Fugitive will agree w/ me that you have no clue about our religious or philosophical educations. I attended BC, and at the time, unlike other liberal arts programs, you couldn't even think about a major without 2 years concentrations in philosophy and theology. As an agnostic at the time, and a 21 year old freshman, my friends were mostly the Jesuit priests. Our battles both in and outside of class were...how shall I put it...titanic. I share both knowledge and experience in other religions as well. You would do better not to presume so much about those who you do not know personally. Someday, I'd like to change that with you because I think you would find that the person you converse with on here, is someone other than you perceive.
moonchild7 1 year ago
Then what made you so insulated, blind, and conservative? That's nothing that I've presumed but rather something that you've admitted to being. Jesuits are not a really "fun" bunch to hang around with when you're 21. Is that what made you so "traditional?" I minored in Religion so I took courses thru my Senior yr that were not typical of what you learned as a freshman and sophmore. Not saying you aren't knowledgable just that I had several "jaw-dropping" experiences while studying so many different Religious Institutions and their Philosophies. I've never been an Agnostic or an Atheist. I admit that I have never understood really intelligent people having such conservative minds. My problem I know.
geoffcutler 1 year ago
Paraphrasing Churchill, If you are young and not liberal, you have no heart. If you are adult and are not conservative, you have no brain.
Moon, my guess is you don't know many Jesuits. They are as intelligent and educated as any people I've ever met, and they are also wildly pro-social justice.
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