Column Insulted Veterans
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This letter is in response to Robert Levy’s column “Quite a Show of Cowardice” (Feb. 24), concerning Sen. Chuck Hagel, nominated by President Obama to be secretary of defense.
Now, I happen to like Bob Levy. Despite our obvious political differences — he is chair of the local Republican Party, and I am a Democrat — I have always found him to be an interesting, engaging guy. But his recent column on Sen. Hagel cannot go unanswered.
In that column Mr. Levy questions Sen. Hagel’s courage, and says that his legacy will be that of cowardice. As a Vietnam veteran, I take great exception when someone questions the courage of a person who fought in that war, and suggests that person is a coward.
I take even greater exception when the person whose courage is being questioned was an infantry squad leader who received two Purple Hearts while in Vietnam.
Mr. Levy has every right to question Sen. Hagel’s suitability for the position of secretary of defense. He can say that Hagel is unqualified, or too liberal, or too conservative, or a poor manager, or whatever. He has no right, however, to call him a coward.
I am incensed by this column, and I believe that Mr. Levy owes Sen. Hagel an apology, just as he owes an apology to all veterans, to all Vietnam veterans, and especially to veterans who have earned Purple Hearts in defense of their country. How dare you, Mr. Levy?
John Dempsey
Pinehurst
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Comments
ProudYankee 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Mr. Dempsey, your letter is spot on, Levy has proven himself to be a weasel on many occasions, but has outdone himself this time. Sadly, instead of an apology, I expect you will see the usual bunch of right wing harpies, shrieking in Levys defense.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Mr. Levy says that he didn't serve in Vietnam because his draft number didn't come up. I guess the army wasn't taking volunteers that year.
It always amazes me that the biggest supporters of that pointless war (Cheney, Bush, Romney,, Levy) couldn't bring themselves to serve in it. The 82nd Chairborne inaction.
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Thank you Dr. Dempsey!
Nezumi 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I agree as well, and thank you, Dr. Dempsey.
pgericson 2 months, 3 weeks ago
@JimHeim... the sad part of you point is that no one ever held them accountable for the divergence between their views and their willingness to demonstrate their allegiance to the country and support for the war by serving in it. Numerous members of their chort both spoke out against the war and tdried to legally avoid service: at least they were consistent. There is nothing worse than saying that the war was just and necessary while allowing others -who were against the war- to be drafted.
Middleman522 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Can you say the same about our new Sec. of State??
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
middleman - Count on you to mention the irrelevant.
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Our Sec. Of State, served honorably, he didn't chicken out, he did not use his wealth and family influence to avoid it. He saw and did things that made a major impact on how he viewed the war. He earned the right to form those opinions. For arm chair warriors to tell him what he should or could do with his medals is a joke.
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Biggie, you may not have done any research on the subject but John Kerry is a coward of the worst type and his taking liberties with medals that he didn't honestly earn was a slap in the face of real heroes.
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
EmphasisYou know there are people who's really served with Secretary Kerry, not Jerome Corsi or those debunked swift boaters for truth goons. Keep watching Fox and reading World Net Daily. And people like yourself who have never served mind your own business.
The_AnonymusProfit 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Eventually the republican party will phase out people like Mr Levy and replace them with people who do not suffer from foot and mouth syndrome.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
skyline - you wouldn't make a pimple on Kerry's butt. The people who defamed him were liars. Period.
dustyrhoades 2 months, 3 weeks ago
The people who defamed him were liars. Period.
Which explains why pest, a proven liar himself, sides with them.
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Keep it up Dusty and I may become less of a gentleman towards your lying butt. I'm retired but you must be also as you seem to have plenty of time to get on your computer and run your foul mouth. Jimmy H, John Kerry is the worst kind of slime, right up there with the prez himself. Biggie, if you're talking to me then I'll be more than glad to compare service records with you. And I'm old enough that I was around during that period that Kerry so proudly slimed his fellow soldiers with his tales of exploits that were brought down as fiction.
JimRussell44 2 months, 3 weeks ago
As long as the right wing has supporters like skylinefirepest and middleman the Alley Cat, their cause will always be lost.
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
JR44, glad to hear from you.
Themis 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I agree. When you step on the honor of any veteran, especially a combat war veteran, you are walking on holy ground. My father got a sniper's bullet on Peleliu in the South Pacific in WWII. Hit him in the shoulder and went clean thru. He was proud of his Purple Heart, but always laughed and said he was sure glad not to have two.
dustyrhoades 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Keep it up Dusty and I may become less of a gentleman towards your lying butt.
Imagine how terrified I am that an anonymous troll might talk mean to me.
Readers: click on pest's username, read his wall, and make up your own mind about who the liar is.
When are you going to admit lying about what I said about assault weapons, pest?
masewell 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Agree with John Dempsey....Politics aside - it takes a distorted mind to question the mettle of a decorated Vietnam War hero. I think the word "cowardice" was used. It is embarrassing that the Levy column was published as it was an affront to anyone who has served the nation in overseas wars.
doughnuts 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Thank you for bring this article to my attention John Dempsey of Pinehurst.
dustyrhoades 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Republicans only love "the troops" or veterans if they follow the party line. If they question that, all repect for their sacrifice goes right out the window.
bufordsplay 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I'm as pro veteran as the next guy, being one myself. But when you say "earn" a Purple Heart, you can get shot in the butt running from your position and "earn" a purple heart. By the way, how much respect was given Bob Dole or George H.W.Bush for their service Mr. Rhoades? Again, you Libs are full of it.
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
From one Lib, I have never questioned or heard Dusty defame Bob Doles or H.W Bush's war record. Other parts of their political record are fair game as is Sec. Kerry and Sec. Hage'ls. All four of these gentlemen served admirably gave a lot for their country. And I thank them as well as my two nephews who are serving in Afghanistan with the 1st SOG for their service to our country.
dustyrhoades 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Nope, never said a word about the war record of Dole or Bush the Elder. Hell, I almost voted for Poppy Bush, till his party went batspit crazy at their convention and I decided I didn't want anything to do with those lunatics.
bufordsplay 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Excuse me I did not say that Dusty said anything about these men. He made a blanket statement about Republicans only loving "The Troops" who agree with them politically and I was pointing out that those who are guilty of this are not just on the right. Many on the left made fun of Bob Dole's crippled arm. Dole spent almost 4 years in Walter Reed recovering from his wounds. Bush was the youngest pilot in the Navy during World War II but that did'nt stop the left from calling his a wimp.
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Dusty I'm far from anonymous...you might remember that I stopped in your office one day but you were "too busy" to meet me. But you do know me, you just haven't figured it out yet. And your parents know me and I think quite highly of them. But my personal opinion of you is that you're an arrogant know it all with not much to recommend you except your fanatical obsession with all things highly liberal. What a waste of an otherwise somewhat intelligent person! I am mistaken frequently but one thing I am NOT is a liar. When I am mistaken I usually own up to it right away but don't get the feeling that I "owe" you one damn thing! And I don't mind debating you when you stay away from the name calling. I promised Mr. Nagy that I would lay off you for awhile and I have. But don't expect my good nature to remain when your foul mouth starts getting the best of you. Verbal diarrea from Mr. Rhoades won't get you anywhere. And talk about hiding...you hide your drivel behind a label of "satire" and threats to anyone who doesn't take your side of the story. You're the coward of the Pilot crowd.
buddysmith 2 months, 3 weeks ago
so what do we call bill clinton? i read somewere that he still has an address in canada!
Themis 2 months, 3 weeks ago
He does, that's where Monica lives.
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Sad, if you keep reading lies over and over again from World Net Daily, listen to Fox you might actually might believe the lies you are spewing. Get some help before you it's too late.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Bufordsplay - Exactly who on the left made fun of Dole's injured arm?
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Dan Akroid on SNL, and Norm McDonald. Other than that nobody.
clarabelle 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I wonder if the far right loonies ever read what they post......... and how f'n stupid and petty it all sounds!
Most of them never served anywhere other than meals at the local jail.
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
To Dr. Dempsey, thank you for the thoughtfull article. Sorry if we strayed a little, keep up the great work you do.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Bufordsplay - Have you found the names of all of those 'lefties' you've defamed with your accusation?
bufordsplay 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Come on Mr. Heim. During the Debates with Clinton people were shown rolling their eyes when Dole mentioned his service and it was questioned how he could answer the red phone and take a message at the same time. It's common knowledge Mr. Heim. By the way, the left does not need help from me in defaming them.
Courseaire 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Clara - We don't have to when we always have you to point it out for us.
LSM 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I guess you don't remember this. Barack Obama attacks John McCain as a computer illiterate September 12, 2008 -
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/barack-obama-at.html
pgericson 2 months, 3 weeks ago
You can always count on certain individuals to deflect criticism of the right by bringing up other issues. The problem is twofold (a) two wrongs do not a right make and (b) often the new 'facts' are not based on facts. Mr. Levy should be taken to task for what he wrote, full stop. I have never understood the criticism of John Kerry's war record: the man volunteered for the military, for Vietnam service, and to put himself in harm's way. Soured by his experience in Vietnam, as were many others, he walked the talk. We many not have liked what he had to say, but he certainly earned the right to speak his mind. Both Bush and Clinton used legal options to avoid service: Clinton received a Rhodes scholarship to study abroad, Bush was fortunate enough to land a National Guard position. Therein lies the difference among these three men.
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Dang, went to your link, absolutely nothing wrong with that attack on McCain. As for the Clinton Dole debates, rolling eyes? That's a pretty weak assumption. How about Dole being wheeled out to the Senate floor and being stabbed in the back by his fellow Republicans on a truly B.S reason to vote against the rest of the World treating people with disabilities the same we do here in the USA. It seems he had the respect of all the Demacrats including the President, but not by his own party.
LSM 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I thought this thread had become about speaking badly of veterans. OK to do so about John McCain but not John Kerry. I guess it all depends on which party represents you.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2008/Sep/12/obama_mocks_mccain_as_computer_illiterate.html
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Wait a minute? No one and I repeat no one ever bashed Sen. McCains service! His ineptitude after his service surely is fair game as is Sec. Kerry and Sec. Hagel's, and even the thought about 70 some year old Bob Dole doing Viagra commercials gave some on both sides a bad mental picture. Bashing Bill Clinton for not serving was fair game, heck he and Dick Cheney didn't want to go to Vietnam, along with a lot others.
geoffcutler 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Does anyone see Levy's criticism of Vietnam veterans or Chuck Hagel's courageous service in the Vietnam War? I couldn't find mention of the word Vietnam in the whole article, and wonder if Levy simply just chose his words poorly in describing Hagel's response to a specific question regarding a statement he made on relations between Israel and the United States.
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Pgeric...so Bush evaded service by joining the National Guard? Don't know much about the military do you? Do you know how many NG members have died in service to the country? He served! Get over it!
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
How many in Vietnam were called? That's why rich elitist with connections joined the Guard then.
pgericson 2 months, 3 weeks ago
@skylinefirepest.... do you know what percentage of those in the national guards served in Vietnam? I'm not talking about the last decaade. Back in the day service in the National Guards was a major way to minimize if not eliminate the likelihood of service abroad. Of the 58,000 soldiers killed in Viet Nam, 10 were in the National Guard. Over 9 million men and women served in the military during the Viet Nam conflict: 6,000 members of the National Guard served on active duty during this period. A Bigguy points out those who could joined the Guard. Please get your facts straight before criticizing others.
clarabelle 2 months, 3 weeks ago
" Please get your facts straight before criticizing others."
pest posting actual facts............... HAHAHAHA
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
PG, Claryb, I actually served with many in the NG ( 1966 through 1970 so you can do your own math ) and they were not looked down upon by us service members like you political mavens so like to do now. Serving was serving and we did not discriminate between NG and active. I know that some like the Guard as a way to finish school or stay at home but that was definitely not the majority. They were still serving their country, as opposed to so many today. My facts aren't bad, now are they? Clary, you wouldn't know a "fact" if it kicked you in the butt.
clarabelle 2 months, 3 weeks ago
hey pest - here is a FACT........... most people during that time chose the guard because they were afraid to go to vietnam............ and to be honest - I wouldn't have blamed them!
But don't spew your crap without expecting some facts to counter your BS!
pgericson 2 months, 3 weeks ago
skylinefirepest - good for you: I served as an Infantry officer on active duty during that period, not as a political maven. fI knew a number of people fortunate enough to serve in the National Guard, and even more that were unable to secure such a position. Yes they were serving their country, albeit in safer environments than their active service counterparts. That is my only point, that their service was relatively guaranteed to be stateside.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
skylinepest - Bush deserted the National Guard without completing the service he signed up for. He also refused to serve in Vietnam.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
bufordsplay - Really? You think you saw eye rolls and that's your proof that 'lefties' made fun of Bush's injured arm? That would have to get a lot better to make it all the way up to stupid.
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Heim...bullhockey and you know it! Remember Dan Rather?? Same bullhockey, different day, got fired!
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Claryb...go back and read the years of my service. Do you take history in school any more? I lived that era and stand by my comments. Pg, appreciate your service but my original comment, while you may have thought was directed to the VN era was not...it was overall and the Guard members serve us well and have for years.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
LSM - How does computer illiteracy relate to war service? Serving in a war does not give one a free pass in life (or politics). But to denigrate their wartime sacrifices for political purposes falls way below the belt. There's a difference.
If you want to charge cowardice in wartime, you'd best have some solid proof. With regard to Kerry and Hagel, I haven't seen any. And if you supported the war they were in but refused to fight in it, you have a much tougher task.
pgericson 2 months, 3 weeks ago
skyline... your point was that Bush did not avoid service by joining the guard and you linked it to the number of guardsmen who sacrificed their lives. My point is that many -including Bush -sought to avoid serving in Vietnam by joining the guard, which did not play a role in that war. Thus one cannot compare Bush's service with Kerry's. If you scroll upward you would see that you were responding to my point, which was about the Vietnam era. Don't be guilty about selective reading of your own words.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
bufordsplay - I'm surprised at your contempt for those who have been awarded the Purple Heart. Perhaps George Washington didn't know what he was doing when he created it. Shedding blood for your country is now out of fashion, I guess.
Interestingly, the first Purple Heart (Gen. Washington called it something else) was awarded to Douglas MacArthur. I wonder who he was running away from. Maybe we should call it the Coward's Ribbon. Is that your position. bufordsplay?
bufordsplay 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Sorry Ericson but you are wrong. Alot of Guardsmen were killed in Vietnam and served in every war we have been in and for you to suggest that serving in the Guard is avoiding service is a disgrace, but why should anyone be surprised. Mr. Heim George Bush served his country honorably. So what you are stating is a flat out lie and no I am not taking away from those who were wounded in combat. My point is that unlike, say, the Silver Star or Bronze Star etc. you don't have to do much to "earn" a puple heart except be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There have been men who recieved the Purple Heart for getting bit in the ass by a dog.
bufordsplay 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Oh and by the way, if everyone in uniform was supposed to serve in Vietnam then who was supposed to guard the continental U.S.?
skylinefirepest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
PG, point taken but I still say that Bush served honorably. We called them the "edge of town defenders" but they had our backs and we had theirs. We hit on nobody for being in the Guard. Heim, the normal liberal viewpoint of the military is that it's a necessary evil. The left has never stood behind the troops...JFK was the last of the Democrats to treat them honorably...like it or not Bush supported the troops and Obummer hasn't a clue. Kerry was a disgrace to the uniform...my opinion then and my opinion now. Bufordsplay hasn't dishonored the Purple Heart for those that have been awarded honestly. Kerry literally put himself in if I remember correctly and one was for a scratch that didn't even need a band aid! But he was active and he did serve and it's his actions after he got out that I don't like. Course I freely admit I don't have much use for liberals.
JimRussell44 2 months, 3 weeks ago
This country is in worse shape than even I thought. I was lucky enough to have not been drafted into that idioic conflict in Vietnam and I sure as hell wasn't about to sign up for it. I heard many stories about our troops killing their own leaders. Seems like it's still going on to this day.
Bigguy 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Pest I will give you support and credit for serving in the Guard. There were a lot of people who joined the guard to help with their education, finances and I'm sure many other valid reasons. The only reason for a Yale Grad to have signed up was to avoid going over to Vietnam. It had obviously no purpose for him to join other than that, he had a great education, wealthy and connected parents.
JimHeim 2 months, 3 weeks ago
George W Bush was a deserter. He signed up for the Guard, accepted training as a fighter pilot and then disappeared. He did not show up for his last two years of 'service.'
A $10,000 reward to anyone with evidence that he completed his service has yet to be claimed. No one saw him. Ooh, maybe he was the first stealth fighter.
teufelhunden 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I wasn't insulted, but I do have thicker skin than most. :)
pgericson 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Burfords play: I am only citing statistics provided by the National Guard. If that makes me wrong than the National Guard must also be confused about itself. I'm sorry if the facts don't support your opinions. I try to research the facts before venturing mine.