Heading for Another Cliff

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With the recent crisis over the nonexistent “fiscal cliff” averted, the president and Congress seem inevitably headed toward another confrontation over the debt ceiling.

The Republicans, who inexplicably continue to be “led” by Cryin’ John Boehner, insist that they won’t allow the United States to borrow more money, even to pay its current outstanding bills, without an agreement to massive spending cuts.

The Obama administration, no doubt remembering that the last “deal” on the debt ceiling resulted in the very debacle we just went through, is saying, “No way. No deals. Do your job, raise the debt ceiling without conditions, the way you did without a negative word when there was a Republican president in office. Then we talk.”

If the debt ceiling doesn’t get raised, the mightiest nation in the world does what even a Third World banana republic should be ashamed to do: It goes into default. The government shuts down. So, with this disastrous showdown looming, some people have begun talking about an allegedly clever plan to save us, in the form of the Trillion Dollar Platinum Coin (or, as I call it, the TDPC).

Here’s how it would supposedly work: A federal law, 31 USC § 5112, allows the Treasury secretary to order the creation of platinum coins in any denomination. The law was originally meant to authorize commemorative coins, but it’s not specifically limited to those.

So, TDPC advocates say, the president should just order the secretary to mint a single platinum coin, declare it worth a trillion dollars, and deposit it in the Federal Reserve. Hey, presto! We’re solvent again, and we move on.

Sounds completely absurd, you may say, and you’d be right. But as a number of people, including Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman, have pointed out, what would be even more absurd would be to let the United States become the world’s largest deadbeat nation, able to pay its current outstanding bills but unwilling to do so.

Because, make no mistake, this isn’t about new spending; this is about Congress refusing to pay for spending it’s already authorized. As several writers have noted, it’s like a father declaring that the family’s run up too high a balance on the credit card, so he’s just not going to make the payments on the debt they have.

All that said, the TDPC raises some practical considerations that would need to be worked out. For one thing, how does one “deposit” a trillion dollar coin? Does the Treasury secretary just stick it in his front pocket and walk it down to the Federal Reserve? Does the Fed have tellers? Does he have to fill out a deposit slip? And hey, wouldn’t this be an open invitation to some supervillain to try to steal the coin?

Also, whose face goes on the TDPC? A number of folks have made suggestions: John Boehner; The President Who Must Not Be Named; and for some reason, swimmer Michael Phelps.

As for me, my choice would be late night TV host Stephen Colbert. No one, in my opinion, does a better job of saying ridiculous things with a straight face to make a point. And that is exactly what advocating the TDPC is: a ridiculous answer to a ridiculous impasse.

Some — not all — liberal commentators have urged the adoption of the TDPC, not least because of the possibility it would make John Boehner’s pumpkin-colored head explode. For its part, the Obama administration has shown no signs of actively considering this plan. Nor should it. It also shouldn’t bargain with the shrinking Teahadist caucus that wants once again to hold the U.S. economy hostage.

There’s a time and a place for discussions about spending, but it’s not at gunpoint. Congress needs to do its job and not send the country into actual bankruptcy today in the name of keeping it from going bankrupt tomorrow.

The last vote on the Senate’s fiscal cliff deal, arrived at after the House punted so disgracefully, showed that while there is still a crazy faction of the Republican Party willing to blow things up if they don’t get their way, it’s smaller than we originally thought. Some of them, thank goodness, will still vote not to wreck the country.

And if not — well, the wingnuts finally get what they want. A government that doesn’t spend money and does absolutely nothing for its citizens, one that’s so shrunken, in the words of wingnut icon Grover Norquist, that you could “drown it in a bathtub.”

Let’s see how much the people love them then, and how long before they realize they’ve overplayed their hand and they cave.

Call the bluff, Mr. President.

Dusty Rhoades lives, writes and practices law in Carthage. Contact him at dustyr@nc.rr.com.

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Comments

OldPilot 4 months, 1 week ago

Let's hope it won't be a rerun of the last time, a protracted squabble, leaving the country to once again suffer thereby. Has anyone on the right ever asked themselves what benefit the public circus the last time around produced except a reduced credit rating for the country and increased contempt for Congress?

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

Hopefully, the defeat of some of the harder core Teahadists (West, Walsh, Schmidt) will be a wake up call to the small number of sane Republicans left in the House and a notice that it's okay to stand up to the Tea Party nuts. Sadly, we still have that crazy harridan Bachmann to deal with.

BTW, how long do you think it will be before Thatcher bumbles in here and insists that I support the TDPC idea?

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skylinefirepest 4 months, 1 week ago

Raise the debt ceiling so this incompetent liar can bring trillions more debt on the heads of your kids...and you guys approve of it?? And you both have the nerve to call other people stupid! Without cutting spending we ARE the third world country obumma wants us to be, right children??

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Courseaire 4 months, 1 week ago

Here is our solution to the Nat'l debt & the Cliff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGraw1...

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

Imagine the economic health of the US is a person who is losing blood fast on a continual basis. Obviously if allowed to continue the patient will die. We have 2 teams of doctors. The Republicans who are mediocre doctors and the democrats who are outright quacks. The quacks want to continue pumping more and more blood into the hemmorhaging patient and do nothing else. The mediocre doctors realize they at least need to find the source of the bleeding and plug the hole in addition to pumping more blood.

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

We've been a banana republic for some time now.

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

"As several writers have noted, it’s like a father declaring that the family’s run up too high a balance on the credit card, so he’s just not going to make the payments on the debt they have."

What we have now is the father making minimum payments while opening new lines of credit to support more and more wasteful spending. In other words, this father is a complete financial idiot.

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packwilleat 4 months, 1 week ago

Well since Dusty is fan of graphs these days, here is one I would love for him to grace us with his profound intellect and explain how the all the "experts" agree that the US is "sound and stable"......

None

by Randy

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JD 4 months, 1 week ago

We've been a banana republic for some time now.

Never been to a real one other than the touristy spots for a vacation have you? I'm sure someone in one of the Banana Republics like Costa Rica would love to switch places with you. I did volunteer work in some of those Banana Republics and in those places with little to no government controls life is tough and a bit scary.

Try having undiluted DEET dropped from a plane to kill the fruit flies and have it hit you in the fields. Let me know when your skin stops burning because all you had was home made soap to clean the area and nothing for the allergic reaction. Part of the reason I do not buy Dole products anymore, check out the 'Banana Massacre' sometime and see how well corporations can fix elections with a hired gun pointed at you telling you how to vote.

Don't make statements like the quote. Makes you look over dramatic and uninformed.

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packwilleat 4 months, 1 week ago

The two main reasons any empire falls is due to A) over expansion and B) economic collapse.

None

by Randy

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JimRussell44 4 months, 1 week ago

Have the Republicans outlined the specific cuts they would like to make in spending in exchange for agreeing to raise the debt ceiling?

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

"Don't make statements like the quote. Makes you look over dramatic and uninformed."

In other words, you think I am doing your schtick and you don't like it. Point taken.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

The Republicn idiots had better not let spending continue. They have a chance to stop this rogue President in his tracks. Make him agree to heavily curtail spending, REAL CUTS, or he does not get his debt increase. Make him cut more than the raise of the debt ceiling. Make the deepest cuts possible. I was upset with them last month, and am going to be triple upset if they let this spending continue. Will it hurt, you know it will, but this has gone on way too long!!!

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geoffcutler 4 months, 1 week ago

What spending, Yukon? According to the president, we don't have a spending problem. We have a health care spending problem. Wait...I thought ObamaCare was supposed to fix that. Does he mean now we can't afford the state run healthcare he rammed down our throats? It's all very confusing

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

Yes, it is Geoff, and to top it, the President is arrogant in his belief that he can spend all he wants, and then to top it off, can control the guns so there are no consequences. I am NOT advocating an armed uprising over spending, but it just seems logical: A President does exactly what he pleases, then disarms the citizenry so there will be no dissent. As far as the Congress doing their job and defunding so many programs that need it, this is what we call Checks and Balances!! This is why our govt. was split into three EQUAL and seperate branches. They need to do their job and put a halt to this unbridled spending.

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packwilleat 4 months, 1 week ago

Yukon ~ they(either side) have no intention to cut spending. Every single one of them is in over their eye balls in promises and back room deals, they'd loose their heads if they failed to uphold their cronyistic habits. But sadly the dumb masses believe we the people should give them more of our hard earned dollar to bail out their incompetence. The logic is as pea brained as it gets. Liberalism should be a religious doctrine, the followers definitely subscribe to faith in authority.

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Jason 4 months, 1 week ago

The president doesn't spend, the Congress does. It can be repeated a million times and it still will not be true, we do not have "state run healthcare." You guys need to do research. Go look at what triggers spending (unemployment, aging population, decades of escalating HC costs, military, etc.) none of which Obama controls. And how about what happens to countries that cut spending too quickly. How is that working out? The nonsense gets repeated over and over here... Greece comparisons, Presidential spending, socialized medicine. With a citizenry like this we deserve to become a Banana Republic!

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

So, Obama isn't responsible for the debt, George Bush was and Bill Clinton gets credit for balancing budgets. I'm beginning to understand

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geoffcutler 4 months, 1 week ago

"we do not have "state run healthcare.'" Jason

That's interesting. Congressional staffers wrote the 2,500 page bill. Nancy Pelosi then said that Congress needed to pass the bill to know what was in it. Congress then passed the bill. The Supreme Court then OK'd it, saying it was a federal tax....Congressional committees are to manage it...what exactly is it if not state run healthcare?

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

Einstein would absolutely believe we were insane. We do keep trying the same things (that do not work) over and over expecting different results!!

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Jason 4 months, 1 week ago

GC - Twist and contort all you'd like, regulations and laws don't equal "state run." Do we have "state run" banking? Do we have "state run" manufacturing? Do we have "state run" food service? Does "rule of law" equal "state run" ? Last time I checked, shares in my insurance provider, Aetna were available for me to investment as a publicly traded enterprise.

I know, there is this make-believe world were Obama is this big spending socialist, but here in the real world facts matter.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

Jason, I agree, facts matter. Do you believe that our spending issues are sustainable? If so, how so.

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geoffcutler 4 months, 1 week ago

And I thought I was confused.

Jason, you seem to be experiencing a little pile-up there with yourself. The state, meaning the Federal government, or in the case of ObamaCare, Congress, will manage it. Therefore, it is state run, and was just described as such in today's Wall Street Journal.

And until you can tell us what Obama is, if not a "big spending socialist," then perhaps it's you who is living in a make-believe world.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

Anyone who calls it "Obama's spending" is not just confused, he's completely out to lunch

The legislative branch passes budgets, not the President. Not a cent gets allocated without the Congress. And who's in charge of the House again?

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

Geoff doesn't know what words mean. Probably why he's not still writing for the Pilot.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

The legislative branch passes budgets, not the President. Not a cent gets allocated without the Congress. And who's in charge of the House again?

DR, we find something we agree on 100%. If Boehner and crew budge one inch on spending cuts, or they don't sign on for raising the debt ceiling, they should every one, to the last person, be tried for treason!!

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

sorry, that was unclear. The Republicans must insist on deep budget cuts or they will not sign the bill raising the debt ceiling

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

So, hold the economy hostage then?

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

It is going to fail anyway if we don't do something drastic!! It may even be too late for drastic measures to work.

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Courseaire 4 months, 1 week ago

This President represents the Democratic Party, not the people and says he will not negotiate and you think the GOP is holding the economy hostage?

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

It is going to fail anyway if we don't do something drastic!!

So we should avoid bankruptcy by acting like we're already bankrupt.

You realize this makes no sense.

Or maybe you don't.

Raising the debt ceiling is necessary to pay for spending they've already passed, people. These are bills we already have to pay.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

DR, Before they pass any bill raising the debt ceiling, they must require that, at least, there are dollar for dollar cuts in the future!! It is stupid to owe for PAST bills, but l realize that they do. If they will not make dollar for dollar cuts, (and l prefer even more) then we default on previous bills.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

then we default on previous bills.

And destroy our nation's credit. Brilliant plan.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

This President represents the Democratic Party, not the people

He was elected by the people to do exactly what he said he'd do. Which is this.

and says he will not negotiate

You don't negotiate at gunpoint with terrorists. And yes, that's exactly how the Teahadists are behaving.

and you think the GOP is holding the economy hostage?

Yep.

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

DR-- Obama voted against raising the debt limit in 2006, claiming it meant "failed leadership" by Bush: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWOMsugKkfk. Was his a "brilliant plan" back then? And why did Obama vote against paying for bills "we already have to pay?" Today, do you agree with Obama that his request to raise the debt ceiling is a sign of his own "failed leadership?" If not, why not. Cheers!

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

Did Obama, by voting against raising the debt ceiling in 2006, do so to hold "the economy hostage?" If not, why not. Cheers!

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

Thatcher come on man you know the libs will deny that Obama said or voted that way back in 2006. Just like they deny that obamacare is cutting health care costs.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

He was wrong then, and he's right now. So what's your next BS Faux News talking point?

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packwilleat 4 months, 1 week ago

"He was wrong then, and he's right now" isn't this the same type of flip flop crap the Dems flamed Mitt for?? I think both the left and the right are "out to lunch" on how to fix our economy. But wait I'll go ahead and give the lefties their attack line for what I just said "well it was Bush..... blah blah blah." Or even better "our economy is on the rebound because Obama is the man." Or an even more delusional response ......... "our economy isn't broken!" There, that should do it.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

This is why we have three equal and seperate branches of govt. I guess our system is working, even in its dysfunction.

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

LMAO, that's an expected response from Obamas butt buddy Dusty. Guess Obama changed his mind about cutting the deficit in half by his first term also.

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bufordsplay 4 months, 1 week ago

The only way the interest on our debt does not get paid is for Obama to order it not paid and that has nothing to do with raising the dept ceiling. Raising the ceiling just allows us to borrow more money. So again Busty Loads......full of s.it as usual....

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

DR-- Fox News has nothing to do with how Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006...and my link (quoting Obama's own words) was CNN (your favorite), not Fox. You knew that. Unlike you, I think Obama was right in 2006 in voting "no," as I think Republicans and good Democrats today should vote "no." My questions to you remain: when Obama voted no in 2006, was he trying to hold our economy hostage? When he voted no was he against paying for bills "we already have to pay?" And lastly, is his request for an increase, as he claimed in 2006, a sign of failed leadership on the part of the President (Obama)? Your blaming Fox News is nonsense. Cheers!

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packwilleat 4 months, 1 week ago

Thatcher ~ I'll go ahead and answer for Dusty......... ugh ugh ugh Bush uhg ugh right wing nut ugh jobs. Ugh look at my made up graph ugh ugh....... experts claim ugh ugh. Obama is the Man!! Ugh here is a cartoon to watch.

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

And we all know that any Republicans in the Senate who may run for President in 2016 who vote "no" today, would be called out by DR if they ever sought an increase as President. Does anyone here, including DR, believe otherwise? Would DR call Democrats who opposed an increase "hostage holders" of the economy? No. And if those Republicans today vote no, it has nothing to do with Fox News. Cheers!

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

Did you catch Obama today in his press conference threatening not to pay the military personnel their pay checks and social security benefits if a debt ceiling is not passed. Obama how about stopping all welfare and food stamp payments before the hard working serviceman.

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

"So what's your next BS Faux News talking point?"

Pulling out the Faux News card. When you absolutely positively can't refute a point. Don't leave home without it.

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moonchild7 4 months, 1 week ago

President Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006 because of Bush's TWO UNPAID FOR WARZ. He said that LEADERSHIP was needed, meaning...like GET OUT OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN NOW! He was right to vote against Bush's INCOMPETANCE and WASTE. President Obama has gotten our soldiers out of Iraq and they'll be out of Afghanistan next year. The Tea Party Wacko's have no MORAL BASIS to do what they say they will do. They are Treason loving jerks who find solace in the 10th Amendement yet they have absolutely NO SENSE of HISTORY or LAWS. The CIVIL WAR is OVER! President Obama INHERITED ALL of BUSHES FOLLIES. He's done as good a job as can be expected. Our Government will have to take over the Hospitals, Doctors and Pharmacies. Then DISSOLVE the Health Insurance Co.'s or the FOR PROFIT MENTALITY that is attached to our Health Care will actually turn into DEATH MARCHES for most Americans.

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

fugitiveguy-- Correct. And the Daily Kos will offer DR no assistance. Tell you what, fugitiveguy, if DR fully answers each of my questions here, I will donate $250 to the Wounded Warrior Project in DR's name. No need to restate the questions...they appear above. And if after fully answering the questions, if DR gives any coherent answer as to why Obama voted no in 2006 because it signaled "failed leadership" by the President, yet today Obama asks for an increase far, far larger than Bush did in 2006, I will double the donation (to $500) so long as DR can explain why Obama's current request does not also signal "failed leadership" by Obama? Answer those questions DR, in order, and fully, and $500 in your name will be sent to Wounded Warriors Project tomorrow. Cheers!

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

MC7, I agreed with you about President Bush's handling of the economy during his presidency, and I was still staying with you for a minute, but when you started about the tea party (of which l have no use for), l lost ya. I feel that any Congressman/woman that votes to raise the debt ceiling without dollar for dollar cuts in spending should be tried for treason. What both sides have done to our budget is treasonous. President Obama is just as guilty as President Bush was on his part in it. He has to move on this spending problem!!!

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

MC7 in full stupid Obama is great mode.

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moonchild7 4 months, 1 week ago

The OMB has a complete and detailed list of the Presidents Budget including Budget Cuts for 2013. The House of Representatives just want to be ANTI-OBAMA on EVERYTHING. They have no principles Yukonjohn and don't care what happens to it. You guys have it all totally backwards.

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

Certified check, delivered by my assistant to The Pilot, to be photocopied and mailed directly from The Pilot's office to The Wounded Warriors Project in DR's name. Cheers!

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

Moonchild, do you think Firsthealth MRH is a good hospital? Do you think the gov't taking it over would make it better, worse or unchanged?

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

Obama has jacked the national debt to 16.4T. Spending has exceeded revenue by >1T in each of his first four years. Yet some lefty knucklehead was on here a night or two ago showing graphs touting Obama's spending reductions. Moon, its time to stop making excuses for your boy. He is a failure. Even he has stopped talking about Bush(I think) because it just makes him sound silly after 4 years.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

Moon, I agree, they all care nothing about any of us. That is painfully obvious. I still believe that if they cannot do at least a dollar for dollar cut in spending for every dollar needed to raise the debt ceiling, they should be tried for treason. All they have to do is...quit taking pork and adding it to everything, and make some serious cuts!!

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

Yukon! Great post! I suspect you are making no friends with the liberals on here. Stay warm my friend! Cheers!

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

Hey Thatcher!! We have been in a heat wave for several days now. It has lightly rained all afternoon and now we have about a quarter inch of ice on everything, including our foot and a half snow pack. Now it is headed to 35 below for the next several days!! It should be horrible, but we will deal with it. I am also sorry if this upsets anyone, but we have to do something. Drastic times call for drastic measures. If these arent drastic times, l have never seen them in my 56 yrs on this earth. But, we can take heart in the fact if they won't/don't stop this spending, we will find out soon enough that it really has run out (the money that is) and it will be hell to pay then.

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

Dang Yukon...35 below? You guys up there are insane, and total beasts for dealing with that kind of weather! That's why you are a legend down here. Whenever you return to Moore County, you will be greeted by folks who want to touch your frozen arms...just to see if it's real. Cheers!

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JimRussell44 4 months, 1 week ago

This may sound familiar...but....have the Republicans provided a list of spending cuts they want? I think all Americans believe we need to cut back spending. The rub comes when it is spending that benefits us personally. It's easy to say "cut spending". Tell us where and how much. I think we spend way to much on the military. What do you think we spend way to much on?

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

Jim, you and l are ready to cut spending, but the President says he is holding firm. The military absolutely needs looking at carefully, but so do other spending programs. The President says that some military members might not get paid, and some seniors might not get their SSI payments on time. How about some welfare checks or adding more food stamps, how bout having them not get theirs? I do not want that to sound racist in the least....just honest.

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Jason 4 months, 1 week ago

The president says the debt and deficit issues need to be addressed too! He also believes tax reform needs to be done. They all need to be negotiated but not at gun point with a hostage. This is not complicated. Previous Congresses have figured out how to legislate without abusing the filibuster and the debt ceiling process. FYI, the budget deficit (different from debt) has and will continue to get smaller as the economy improves-- greater revenue and fewer qualifying for UE insurance.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

The rub comes when it is spending that benefits us personally.

Remember: people don't think it's really government spending if it goes to them. See "keep government's hands off my Medicare!"

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JD 4 months, 1 week ago

In other words, you think I am doing your schtick and you don't like it. Point taken.

Nope, point missed Fugly. You can't do my 'schitck' because you get comments removed for bad jokes and trolling. Where as I am one of the few on this board who has yet to have a comment removed. Heck, Finger wavin' Thatcher has had about as many removed as DRjr, what are you close 3rd Fugly?

That is why you appear ignorant.

Point Taken, Fugly?

And Yukon and Thatcher learn to use facebook or just stop trying to derail threads with the bromance. It was cute at first, but now it's kinda strange.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

This may sound familiar...but....have the Republicans provided a list of spending cuts they want?

Of course not., That'd mean not only crushing defeat in the next election, they'd likely be tarred and feathered and run out of DC.

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Jason 4 months, 1 week ago

There are so many bizarre exaggerations and extrapolations-- The Great Recession creates a once in a lifetime economic environment that has a major impact our economy and contributes to our deficit and debt therefore Obama is a big spender. Common sense gun regulations means the government is coming to take all our guns away. An effort to reverse decades of incredibly harmful redistribution of wealth means Obama thinks everyone should be equal regardless of their talent and effort. Giving money to the needy is significantly worse than allowing the rich to pay less (and the latter is not a handout)!

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

JASON if you feel so willing why don't you help this freeloader in the video. Here is the drain on tax money right in front of us all. And I'm suppose to feel sorry and work my ass off to pay taxes.

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moonchild7 4 months, 1 week ago

"Here is the drain on tax money right in front of us." NO, you have it wrong, AFCHIEF...the "DRAIN" has been the bizillions and trizillions of hard working citizens taxes that went to bail out BANKS and INSURANCE COMPANIES; and to the MILITARY CONTRACTORS defrauding our government. This woman in this video has many problems and it seems that Social Services should have taken these children from her until she at least attempt's to "get her life back together." It seems that no one has let her know that "SHE'S" responsible for all of her children along with the father. Once she was homeless, the children could have been put into Foster Care (even though that's not always the best thing to do either). She also doesn't seem to be getting any good and qualified advice about "Birth Control" from anyone either, but you wacko righties should actually be applauding her for her "Chosing Life" for all of her children. So, really you should have nothing but POSITIVE things to say about her CHIEF. She didn't ABORT any of her kids, she's just trying to survive in this "terrible" economy. You guys are hopeless.

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

MC7 you want me to applaud her for not having abortions. You are whacked out. I despise he rant anyone like her for being irresponsible and wanting to have FREE handouts from hard working Americans who are responsible. You feel sorry for her send her a damn check.

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teufelhunden 4 months, 1 week ago

MC7-"It seems that no one has let her know that "SHE'S" responsible for all of her children along with the father."

Really? Do tell...

This whole sentence is completely absurd.

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moonchild7 4 months, 1 week ago

Oh really? You know so very little about human beings and the human psyche then, teufelhunden. Also taking a lot for granted about such situations. It amazed me in my career as a social worker at how very LITTLE so many men, women and children knew or understood about life. Even the very idea of LEARNING was strange to many and not just because it was "looked down upon" but simply because to many it's felt to be impossible to learn things. Teaching a person to THINK INDEPENDENTLY and to SOLVE their OWN PROBLEMS was a huge part of my job. I loved showing clients how to do those things and you know what a common reponse from them was? "I never knew that" or "No one ever bothered to tell me those things." Needless to say but many of my clients did amazing good things after some of my "lessons". And AFCHIEF, you just don't understand life, do you?

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

MC7 I understand life very to the point that I know the difference between people who have initiative to provide for themselves and those that choose to milk the govt for all the free welfare, food stamps and handouts they can get. It's that simple.

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JimRussell44 4 months, 1 week ago

Let's be honest. There are a lot of people on welfare who look at the checks and the food stamps as their salary. It's what they get each month to live on. In good times, they would not take a job because getting free money is easier. There are many others who want to work for their money, but can't find a job and need the assistance to see them through the tough times. Lumping them all into the same rant is not fair. The answer for the 2nd group is for the economy to produce more jobs. I don't know what the answer is for the first group. Simply stopping the checks and food stamps will not make the problem go away and will, in my opinion, increase the crime rate substantially. So then we are subject to more violence and we still get to support these same people, only this time in prisons, more of which will have to be built with our tax dollars. Many on the right want to see Planned Parenthood run out of town on a rail but fail to see that supporting all the services provided by that organization is a positive thing that can help solve the problem over time. If anyone has other solutions, lets hear them instead of the complaints.

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

Jimruss, taxpayer funded at a tune of over $540,000,000 and performing over 300,000 abortions last year is not money well spent from taxes, sorry this is another program needing to be cut to $0.

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clarabelle 4 months, 1 week ago

AFCHIEF -

"MC7 you want me to applaud her for not having abortions. You are whacked out"

"Jimruss, taxpayer funded at a tune of over $540,000,000 and performing over 300,000 abortions last year is not money well spent from taxes,"

Make up your mind chieffey - either you are FOR her having abortions or NOT........

as usual - your hypocrisy continues to shine!

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

JimRussel44-- A very good post. Not many of those left-of-center will even admit that many look at "the checks and the food stamps as their salary." And I further agree with you that many who receive these benefits actually want to work but cannot find jobs (I suspect this group is much larger than the former). I disagree that folks on the right "want to see Planned Parenthood run out of town on a rail." They (myself included) do not. We want to end taxpayer funds being given to this group. Nothing more. Same with PBS. Both groups can continue what they do without wasting tax dollars supporting them. I look forward to discussing gun control with you on the other thread. A civil discussion, even when the parties may disagree, is in my view a good thing. Cheers!

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moonchild7 4 months, 1 week ago

Again, a lot of misunderstanding here. The "Home" that is and has been DEPENDENT on "WELFARE" is a HOME that needs to be EDUCATED and TRANSFORMED. I worked in some of the most HARDENED "Communities" i.e. PROJECTS, and SLUMS yet found each Home and Family ready to learn. Even though at times some families were ridiculed by "peers" after my visits. Homes and Families that I visited, where there had not been healthy patterns of WORKING and GOING to SCHOOL, were a challenge but I never gave up on them. Now, that doesn't mean that I was successful in every home and with every family. No I was not but I gave it my all and I at least left those homes having given the families inside lots of information and plans to help them become better citizens. I also kept up with them and was NEVER judgemental. Something too many other social workers had issues with. Giving up on Humanity will NEVER be a healthy attitude to have in ones head. It is an extremely ruinous way to think. I've been hearing on the t.v. about how the Republicans have turned down many White House Invitations from the President that included Dinners, Parties and Movies. Shameful.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

I just hope that the Republicans will stand firm on serious budget cuts, real cuts, before signing on to a debt limit increase. The President seems to stand firm on this, and feels that he can do this. Maybe he can, but it is not good for our nation. Even though l spent all those years in the military, l am looking overseas....it may be necessary for me to relocate.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

I should have said Republicans AND Democrats!!!

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Thatcher 4 months, 1 week ago

Yukon-- I'm with you on the Republicans doing what is right (I think house Democrats will do whatever Obama wants them to do). Relocating? Check out New Zealand. The folks there are like Alaskans on steroids! Give it a look...and they don't know what 35 below is. Cheers!

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

But they have a glacier, or used to!! Hope your day is going well. Ecuador is pretty high on list for ex-pat retirees.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

Make up your mind chieffey - either you are FOR her having abortions or NOT........ as usual - your hypocrisy continues to shine!

Anything she does is wrong as far as Chief is concerned, clarabelle. She's black.

I mean, do any of these videos of alleged "freeloaders" he's posted show white people?

When people like AFCHIEF talk about "cutting spending" what they really mean is "quit giving money to blacks".

Now, I'm sure he's going to go into his usual spitting rage about how "I just call people racist every time they disagree with me," but ask yourself why all the welfare recipients in his little videos (even the ones by comedians that he's too blooming stupid to realize are jokes) are African American when the statistics he hates so much show that the vast majority of Food Stamp recipients are white?

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teufelhunden 4 months, 1 week ago

The Pilot must be so proud...

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

You can have all the abortions you want MC7 and Dusty, but why should the taxpayers pay for them.

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JimRussell44 4 months, 1 week ago

I don't know about the Pilot, but I'm proud of Dusty for calling it like it is, in the case of AFCHIEF.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

Thanks, Jim. To wingnuts, it's A-OK to be an obvious racist, but pointing it out is the WORST THING IN THE WORLD. I mean, look at teufelhunden. Not even an attempt to deny the claim, just the usual unhappiness that the Pilot doesn't silence me.

I'm not saying all Republicans are racists (so we can expect Thatcher along presently, to claim that I said all Republicans are racists). But they've got a problem: if they tossed all the racists out, or even broke with them publicly, they'd have an even smaller minority than they have now. Colin Powell addressed this problem, so we've already heard the screams that he's a RINO. He's pretty much doomed his chances of going anywhere in the GOP by pointing out the truth. And the GOP is going to be falling farther and farther behind, while the white-hood goons like AFCHIEF get more and more bitter claiming it's all about Those People.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

Hey, Chief! Guess who said this:

Today, this war hero with historic accomplishments (the first African-American chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and secretary of state) should still be one of the leading voices of my of Republican Party, especially since it faces demographic trends that could spell its doom. Instead, General Powell is a Republican relic from a different age — little more than a reminder of a majority party that once beat Democrats in landslide elections every four years. Republicans could kick General Powell around for the next four years or they could get smart and start celebrating the fact this commanding figure still identifies himself as a Republican. Then they should do everything possible to drag him back into a big GOP tent. Unfortunately, the Republican Party of 2013 bears little resemblance to the party of Ronald Reagan, who would have responded to Powell’s concerns with an all-hands-on-deck effort to win the war hero back. That’s because President Reagan lived by the belief that “just because I’m your friend 80 percent of the time doesn’t make me your enemy 20 percent of the time.”

Hint: it's the same guy I asked about in the question in the other thread. The one you ducked. It's the same guy you suggested I watch more of.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/the-republican-partys-time-to-choose-86193.html#ixzz2I8tPHOCm

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

The Alex Jones solution.....................

Once again, the so-called defenders of the Constitution reveal that they know next to nothing about it.

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moonchild7 4 months, 1 week ago

The Pilot is very proud teufelhunden, I'm quite sure. I've noticed that they seem to have "lightened" up a bit when it comes to censoring and NOT censoring our comments. They respect the First Amendment. You've heard of that one, haven't you? And Dusty, well, I know this will just BREAK your HEART but he's quite the TRUTH-TELLER compared to most of the rest of you. There were several conversations on several tv 'shows" yesterday talking about the refusal of so many Republicans to go to White House "functions" that they should be attending out of sheer RESPECT for the Office of the Presidency. But they WON'T go and several commentors on these shows said they were not afraid to state that in their opinions these Republicans weren't going because our President is a "Black Man." I'm with them...you guys are trying to "hide" your racist attitudes by using other issues to be mad about. And fugitiveguy, I can't say whether or not First Health would or wouldn't be better if it was a "Government" hospital. I would certainly hope so. I've had members of my family having to go to First Health and The VA in Fayetteville. I won't disparage either because there was good and bad in both. We need to try to make EVERYTHING in this LIFE the BEST that we can... no matter what.

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AFCHIEF 4 months, 1 week ago

And I'm racist, take a look at this. By the way DR I have several black friends, how about you. Clients don't count.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

Really, Chief? "I have black friends"? Do you even hear what you're saying? Do you even realize what a lame cliche that is?

And did you just post that because it had a white face in the preview without looking at it? Because it really just proves my point about you.

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dustyrhoades 4 months, 1 week ago

And I see Chief's still ducking my question a few posts up. I think we all know why....

You guys are trying to "hide" your racist attitudes by using other issues to be mad about.

If Chief's trying to hide his racism, he's doing a damned poor job of it.

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fugitiveguy 4 months, 1 week ago

"I'm not saying all Republicans are racists"

No, of course not. Just the ones who support voter ID and the ones who oppose the Presidents leftist agenda. I'm sure that leaves a half dozen or so. Most allegations of racism by leftist loons are such blatant horse squeeze that they do not warrant a response. They are like a broken record.

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Yukonjohn 4 months, 1 week ago

Dang, how did we go from the fiscal cliff to which half of the President, the white half or the black half, that we like and approve of???

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dustyrhoades 4 months ago

Most allegations of racism by leftist loons are such blatant horse squeeze that they do not warrant a response.

And yet, here you are.

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