Southern Pines Council Rejects Impact Study of Proposed Development

A proposed concept plan for the Knollwood Tract, 550 acres that adjoins Pine Needles Lodge and Golf Club

As of Thursday, November 8, 2012

The Southern Pines Town Council has rejected a petition asking it to have an economic and community impact study conducted in conjunction with a major development on land owned by the Bell family.

“We’ve never required such a study,” council member Mike Fields said Wednesday at the council’s monthly agenda meeting. “Unless we’re going to require it on every single project that comes to town, we shouldn’t do it.”

Fields noted that downtown Southern Pines has “survived and thrived” in the past 30 years, despite retail encroachment from the likes of Walmart, Lowe's and Pinecrest Plaza shopping center.

“We have a very unique downtown that has been successful despite the growth,” he said.

The petition was submitted to the council last September by the Broad Street Merchant Community. It was signed by 52 owners or managers of businesses in downtown Southern Pines.

The Bell family is seeking to rezone 558 acres adjacent to their Pine Needles Lodge and Golf Club.

The council is expected to vote on the rezoning at its monthly meeting next Tuesday.

See Friday's edition of The Pilot for full details.

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njc17 6 months, 1 week ago

Well boys that's a bit short sighted. where are you going to find tenants to fill 3hundred thousand square feet when you can't fill 500 thousand square feet now?. Where are you going to find the literally hundreds of families to fill the hundreds of thousands of square feet of residence when you have hundreds of thousands square feet unoccupied now?Where are you going to find the literally hundreds of thousands of cubic feet of water to supply these places when the supply you have now is inadequate to properly service what you have now, where are you going to find the sewer volume to accomodate these families and businesses when the facilities are so inadequate now. Where are you going to find the drainage surface for water runoff that puts water back into the table when you create a vast area of impervious surface channeling water away from the very water aquifer you need to maintain.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

Relative to Mr njc17. Perhaps it would behoove you to understand some basic facts.

Your commentary exhibits no qualification from which to present a rational point of expertise in development at the level proposed by one of the most successful families ever to have hailed form the Pines.

Allow me to assert that the likeliness of success in terms of metrics you dismiss as unobtainable have likely been calculated to exacting specifications by a vetted team of professionals who are at the pinnacle of their careers.

We, The People of the Pines (consider that to the mean indigenous natives for the purpose of argument) know one thing for certain if we know nothing else at all about this topic. That being, the Bell family operates a first class organization and every thing they have been or are involved with since they came to our area in the 1950's is top drawer. This is without question.

A good suggestion for you would be to go on about your business and let folks who know something about developing the area of Southern Pines go on about their business.

All the best, The David Stone..

njc17 6 months, 1 week ago

I've known the bells probably longer than you have and have been in the pines probably longer than you have so stuff it sonny

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

Why is it that this person is so, how shall I say it, pervasively ignorant?

TooHot 6 months, 1 week ago

Don't worry njc17. These developers will see the lethargic pace that projects get absorbed into this area and will fall right into line. This development will probably never achieve 50% completion.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

By the way. 1962 is when I arrived on the scene and I didn't move from somewhere else.

Since you know the Bell's so well..why be averse to the growth they foresee? Why not celebrate responsible development instead of what we saw in the 1970's.

You start off your diatribe with "Well boys", which shows obvious lack of respect. therefore losing respect at that point, then offer nothing of value other than whining pathetic panty waist crooning as to what is wrong with everything..then get hostile when taken to task over a myopic viewpoint. ...ashes to ashes. dust to dust.

citizen 6 months, 1 week ago

Thanks njc17 and David. I have had a hearty guffaw or two.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

You are welcome citizen...maybe l njc17 will go to The Presbyterian Church Sunday and ask Mrs. Bell what she thinks. She usually sits in the balcony on the right side going up the stairs.

njc17 6 months, 1 week ago

yes and your point? why have you attacked my ability or allowability to comment? I know where she sits and for this I should be obedient and allow a personal project to whizz by just because it's her property? I don't think so. I am and never have been especially against this or any other project, BUT I am against not planning properly and thoroughly investigating of what the Sandhills offers for the future. You folks want immediate satisfaction and profit from your property fine but why destroy beautiful country for your personal greed?

Arestorer 6 months, 1 week ago

renoace; So, after the huffing and puffing, you still never addressed the concerns voiced by njc17... Your such a know it all, why dont you enlighten us all on the issues he/she raised..And none of them had to do with how Great the Bell family is..

Middleman522 6 months, 1 week ago

I would ask the council to drive out to Little River, or Dormie, or the Legacy, or any other developement that sits empty in Moore County, before they let Kelly Miller start something that can't possibly be completed in our lifetime! People in this country just re-elected the most anti growth President in modern history, and with electric and gas prices sure to increase along with taxes and EPA hell, we in Moore County have very little chance to fill what is already here. Remember we don't have Airline service here, enough water, or the prospect of enough new neighbors to even think about this! Rumor has it that a developement already here is planning some retail expansion on a pretty grand scale. I would think twice about The Bell project!!

babiehop 6 months, 1 week ago

Hopefully the Bell family will choose to be leaders in good stewardship by making sure that where possible non-impervious surfaces ane native plants are used and other conservation practices are put into place to demonstate how much they care about this place we all call home.

Arestorer 6 months, 1 week ago

Middleman, their not going to use common sence.......$$$$'s are all they see.

TF121 6 months, 1 week ago

Putting the sacrosanctity of the Bell family aside for the moment, the key to this project is the DEVELOPER. Once the Bell family turns the keys over to an outside developer, that "for profit" business will do what they need to do to optimize the profitability of the property. In a down economy this poses a huge challenge in terms of attracting a top tier developer, who would look at the local demographics and market very carefully, and see that this is simply not ripe for success, and may not be for a generation. Now, that's not to say that some lesser developer wouldn't sign on, chasing a dream. . . .

alladat1 6 months, 1 week ago

The usual trolls (and one asshat - renoace ) blowing a lot of hot air and steaming piles.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

njc17 I would have answered your post last night if I had known you would come back again with more nonsense, but will spend a few minutes in rebuttal. It would have posted this morning but either it didn't post or got removed for being too harsh, in any event here is my attempt to help you understand my perspective. Because it is lengthy I will have to break it up into several posts. Hope you don;t mind. I rarely post anything, but from time to time my goat gets out of the pasture and heads for the hayloft. This is one of those occasions.

As for Arestorer and alladat1 - you deserve a proper response which I will get to right away.

For starters. (a) No attempt is made to attack your right or “allowability” to comment. However, (b) your ability to comment speaks for itself.

Before responding to your initial post I read your comments from previous posts to try to gain an understanding from your perspective. What I gleaned is that you, as well as many others moved from “somewhere else” to The Pines somewhere around 1970 and now have “retired to the beach” having been involved in business and the building of “the area” as you deem it.

Take whatever you will from my reply here, but note that in many ways I agree with your politics as I also feel the country is in for a long period of protracted economic stagnation due to the current executive branch and many other reasons. Your litany of reasoning pales in terms of my disdain for the administration's policies and anticipated effects that will result from them going forward. So, there is no reason In splitting hairs there. However, one needs to be able to accept that others opinions are not necessarily predicated on the same view as one's own. In my opinion, the plausibility of your reasoning assumes that folks have not taken into account the variables you use to make your opening salvo. So then,...

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

In your posts over the past month on the development of “the area” subject, you make a lot of noise but offer no no solutions. You offer no credible facts as your thought train evidently begins with a jumping off point that embodies the assumption that “the area” as you call it was mainly built post 1970, with no consideration that major landholders bought significant tracts as early as the late 1800's. None of these landholders came along with a let's get rich scheme. They already were doing quite well, long before the influx of the third tier of northern society began to find its way into Moore County with the townhouse, condo and “6/10ths of an acre and a golf cart crowd”. Tiers being (1) investor/financier/industrialist/capitalist population (2) executive management/retiree population (3) middle management and pensioners population.

Developments ranging from CCNC in the past to Forest Creek more recently have come into being without creating any of the issues you throw up as hurdles, constraints to resources or what have you. Others such as Foxfire, Whispering Pines and even Seven Lakes have fought their own battles with economic uncertainty. Perhaps you don't recall that they were giving away memberships if you bought a lot out on many Pinehurst property owned lots at one time because they had too much extended inventory and nobody wanted one. Many people who did buy, bought for investments, or to keep the population growth down.

What gets me is that you assume in many of your posts that your opinion encompasses the greater good of Southern Pines as if you have anything to do with its implementation, which you don't. I was tempted initially just to reply to your post with ”Well boy, who died and left you King of the Pines” and let it go at that. But after reading your posts in entirety I had to make the point that perhaps you might be inspired to consider that there are those who do not appreciate the meddling, confrontational, abrasive tone that folks brought with them who are considered outsiders no matter how long they have been in “the area”.

So then, the point I make is that you, and folks like you, have taken the stage to voice your own version of what is in the best interest of people for far too long without redress in my opinion. It is of zero value what you bring to the table when all you bring are highly biased opinions with no solutions. Regardless of whether it is about the status of the capacity of infrastructure, under utilized industrial, residential or retail space, future tax burdens or regulatory procedures, or whatever. You are not in any way empowered with the decision making authority to do anything about it, especially if all you are offering is negative thinking. In your case, you reside elsewhere.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

In all of the cases in Moore County where industrialists and successful people acquired holdings in the thousands of acres, great care was taken to preserve the resources, infrastructure and look and feel of “the area”. In many cases, you probably are not aware of, these tracts kept the neighborhood clear of the type of people that ultimately came along. It was high net worth individuals and families that were welcomed because they contributed to the value of the area, bought large tranche's of municipal bonds, chartered foundations, made charitable contributions to worthy causes and donated land for things like the community college and so forth and so on. All I ever hear or read from the side you and others seem so ready to present is constant complaining about how things ought to be. Yet, you march to your own drumbeats and blow your horns like you know everything.

In one of your comments you state “Retired look for a less hectic way of life, and coming to Pinehurst/Southern pines has been, up to now, the draw, but as the expansion continues unabated you WILL lose the ones you want. The retired look at this and say " That's what I am leaving". - My comment to those folks is: take your coat, your hat, and leave...before you got here there were those who had the same oh the sky is falling attitudes when properties were in the planning stages and there are many developments that have done very well in all climates of economic activity. There are exceptions.

Yet, even in these times, regions like South Florida re-branded themselves to attract the new Brazil and are turning things around fast despite the result of the Obamanomic's resounding thud. Who are you folks to know what the target market profile is for a development that has not even been approved. I certainly don't, but I have faith in the folks that do. I can't imaging they would intend to build a property on the backs of a lot of BRAC second lieutenants or even G-12 and above pay grade retirees coming down from the Pentagon or wherever. Or, that they would make the same mistake that was made by high end retail expecting the market that came to Pinehurst would leap to pay $20,000 for a fur coat. These people are smarter than that.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

As far as the notion that all this unfilled retail space overhang and so forth and so on is a concern, look businesses come to regions where discretionary income is rising. The fixed incomers have to know that when the model becomes less marginal profit and stagnant revenue per square foot then that inventory and focus becomes less attractive. Downtown Southern Pines is not going away. Ever. It is unique, I agree with you on that. Yet, it was built on the back of places like Sandhills Drugstore, an Popes and Mr. Clayton and Bobby Hill giving haircuts and so forth. Today it is transformed to be more in tuned with the times. When you say people say they are leaving because expansion continues unabated I say people leave because tired old cranky people who do nothing but complain are gumming up the works.

In terms of water and blah blah blah, do you know where the underground aquifers are that feed the water table are? Perhaps others are more in tune that you are.

But you also have some real loonies in there like diverting Highway 211 down Roseland Road. So with that I will slide back in to the woodwork.

I'll leave you with this poetic justice from The Tobacco Road Trilogy which is titled My Stinking Opinion. Perhaps you can gain a greater appreciation of an opinion other than yours.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

My Stinking Opinion When they built Pine Grove Village down the short path to the bailing woods on Starland Farm, the mud ran into the creek and down to the reservoir. It was just plain ugly. All summer long even through the drought that copper looking mud kept oozing down the creek. Then they built a parking lot on tractor hill and a tennis court and called it a recreation area. I used to think how tragic, but as I got older I realized that we have a beautiful area and growth is inevitable, but it all boils down to who is doing the developing, what their experience is with maintaining the look and feel of the area without disturbing its natural beauty and why do they intend to break ground other than the capitalism condition the world revolves around. In the end, Pine Grove Village turned into a nice but necessary development and a good model for the area because we have to create these little parcels to offer residency to those that think somebody would actually want something they have and might steal it. That logic embraces the insatiable selfishness, narcissism and quest for material possessions which seems to be the embodiment of your basic run of the mill Yankee, which is only exceeded by their relative ignorance as it pertains to any form of cultural enrichment of our heritage and the audacious arrogance portrayed by the way they live their daily lives.

Let Johnny come lately explain to you why it is good to have things in the name of progress. It’s better our way, we know how things should be, they say. According to whom I often wonder. Why can’t they just be happy and live like the rest of us without coming here and trying to impose their ways on us when they were trying to get away from all that stuff in the first place or else they would not have come here? But what amuses me is when they try to enforce their wills and ideas of how things were where they come from to the powers that be. It tickles me to see just what comes poking out of the woodwork to grab the microphone to create the ruckus about how we should run our communities that our forefathers have been doing a pretty fair job of since before they were born. What is the most fun is when we tell one of them they might have something there and we encourage them to get elected to a public office. All of a sudden Mr. Going South to retire becomes everything he tried to forget and let go of in the name of progress for a cause he had no real control over to start with. Then he invariably steps on some toes he shouldn’t have in being Dudley Do Right to all the party line supporters that ultimately drop away when their feet get too close to the fire like ticks off a ground hog in November.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

continued...

Makes for good reading if you are a subscriber but it seems like such a waste of energy. If I was one of those people that had a beef about how when they got here things were nice and 5 years later blah blah blah, I would go and buy a real piece of dirt and grow myself a garden and not tell anyone where my blueberries were, instead of some acre or two plat they spent way too much for to build an overpriced fiefdom for themselves from which they can’t even go out and take a good whiz in the morning off their own front porch. But then again I don’t have the culture and breeding and expensive education to make those kinds of decisions. So I guess I will just spend the winter to decide whether to plant 14 rows of butter beans or 13 and use the top lot for chives next year. I don’t really like chives so much but Aunt Gertie likes to put them in her tater salad. Oh well.

renoace 6 months, 1 week ago

Arestorer. The concerns raised by njc17 are based on the presumption that infrastructure and other resources will be constrained by modest growth that owners, developers and elected officials cannot properly manage.The further assumption is that underutilized retail space will force solvency issues for current tenants. Neither is a defensible position. Growth is growth. It is also inevitable.