Flag Lowering Forgotten on Memorial Day

The U.S. flag in front of the Courts Facility in Carthage was at full staff on Monday, Memorial Day.

As of Wednesday, May 30, 2012

An odd thing was not remembered on Memorial Day.

All over Carthage — and in other places — flags were not lowered to half staff in honor of the fallen.

The flag code of the United States calls for the nation’s flag to be flown at half-staff until noon on that day, then raised again to the top.

But at some municipal and county government buildings around Moore County Monday, the U.S. flag remained at full staff.

“I take full responsibility,” Carthage Town Manager Carol Sparks said, speaking of flags at the William C. Walton Municipal Building, which flew at full staff as usual. “I didn’t know about it, but we had no staff working on Memorial Day except police. I couldn’t have done it myself if I had known, because I have a broken foot.”

That’s why she wasn’t at Saturday's memorial service at the Veterans Memorial in Carthage. Few were, and those taking part in the ceremonies didn’t know about the half-staff rule in the code.

Michael Gast, of American Legion Post 12 in Carthage, attended, as he always does. There were few others.

“I was there at 9. Nobody showed up till 10,” Gast said. “I was there and the district commander of the American Legion. The service was done by Vietnam Veterans Chapter 966 with Chuck Spellman, their new president. There were four or five guys with motorcycles. One guy from the Second World War was there with his wife.”

The Carthage ceremony was simple, but it still did not involve lowering any flags to half staff. Instead of having the service on Memorial Day, it was on the Saturday before when that part of the Flag Code did not apply.

“Chuck and some of his people spoke, and that’s about it,” Gast said. “We didn’t have any dignitaries. Last year, we had about 25 in attendance. It gets less each year.”

Names of 44 residents from Carthage who had fallen in battle since World War II were read aloud, with a single tap of a bell marking each one. Gast said he didn’t know about the flag rule, and he thought most places that didn’t lower their flags may have been closed for the holiday with nobody to lower and later raise their flags.

When it is to be flown at half-staff, the flag is first raised to full staff and then slowly lowered halfway down. At the proper time — as designated by the occasion — it is once more raised to fly at full staff.

One man became more and more incensed as he drove about the county seat seeing flagpole after another flying flags at full staff the morning of Memorial Day.

“In front of the courthouse, (Sheriff’s Office), in front of the county jail/magistrates office, and most disturbingly in front of the County Veterans Memorial … all these flags were at full-staff, Jonathan Poverud wrote in an e-mail to The Pilot. “Carthage town hall, the library, the post office, the Division of Aging and the Carthage Rescue Squad were flying flags at full-staff and not honoring the fallen.”

Poverud said he found only McDonald’s on N.C. 24-27 in Carthage had the flag correctly displayed at half-staff that morning.

“Given that some of these county and city buildings were occupied, I find it contrary to the values that I was raised with that the county leadership has taken a position of indifference to the sacrifice of the men and women who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our country,” he said. “Shame on Moore County!”

Speaking for the Sheriff’s Office, Chief Deputy Neil Godfrey said it wouldn’t happen next year.

“It was an oversight, and it’s been corrected,” Godfrey said.

It need not happen again anywhere in Carthage. Next year, Gast says he is certain that members of his Post would be willing to take on that flag duty for town, county or businesses if requested.

“Just give us the location, we’ll do it,” he said. “We put flags out at cemeteries.”

He and other members are busy getting ready for the Post’s annual flag-burning ceremony on June 14, Flag Day.

Contact John Chappell at (910) 783-5841 or jfchappell@gmail.com.

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Bflat 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Flag burning ...more important than Memorial Day half staff? I guess no staff was more like it. :((

weedsie21 11 months, 3 weeks ago

This is sad that no one knew about the protocol for remembering those that have gone before us and paved the way for those to come!

teufelhunden 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Wow that's pretty bad...

Poundman 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Get over it, stuff happens. The same people who will whine about this whine about everything.

AFCHIEF 11 months, 3 weeks ago

As Michelle Obama said " All this for a Flag"

MooreNatv 11 months, 3 weeks ago

This article makes me take a deep breath and have to think for a moment. I am sure that the flag was not intentionally flown to take away from any of the brave soldiers who have shed their blood and gave their lives for our great country. When I saw the flags flying high that day I was proud! I did not know the flag protocol and told my children to look at the great stars and stripes that stood for so many that had sacrificed for our freedom. I explained to them the greatness of the flowing flag and its beauty and how our great Americans have defended that flag and laid down their lives for it over and over. I am NOT ashamed of any one in Carthage for not knowing that the flag was to be lowered until 12:00P.M. I am sure this happened in other places as well. At least now we all know. I am PROUD of Carthage- in FACT for having so MANY FLAGS that a Man had to Drive around and look at ALL of them What a great Town that displays its love for its Country. And for you Honorable folks who had the Memorial Service -great job- I am sure the fallen angels in Heaven are thankful for your efforts. Shame on those who are making a big deal out of something that others thought was an honor. Now we can go look up the flag codes and be even more proud of Carthage. I wonder if the man that rode around to spy on our flags stopped to honor those at the memorial service or just contacted the Pilot to complain??? If so Shame on Him! Flag Codes-http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/40173

NocOwl 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Don't take it out on the guy who pointed out the error, it's very important to many people. I think it's sad that more people didn't go to a memorial service, myself included, and that we tend to forget tradition and see it as a free day off. (I did decide to honor sacrifice with sacrifice and volunteered to work on Monday, and no, I don't get holiday pay) I also notice that during the playing of our national anthem or the pledge of allegiance many men no longer remove their hats and many people don't put their hands over their hearts. I find it disrespectful, but wonder if these values and protocols are just not being taught anymore. From the bottom of my heart I thank all who have sacrificed to serve our country and keep our citizens safe.

CSmithson 11 months, 3 weeks ago

We just had an election and a referendum on a constitutional amendment. Over 60% of registered voters in this county did not bother to come out and fulfill their duty as citizens to participate in our system of government. That is, in my opinion, a much greater travesty and much more disrespectful to those who have died for our rights than someone forgetting to lower a flag or remove their hat.

MooreNatv 11 months, 3 weeks ago

I am in total agreement with you about the right to vote being more important. Many men do not remove their hats because they may have writing on them that symbolize the era they served in. Many may have medical conditions that cannot be exposed to light. We do not know. At least they are there! Some stand with their hands behind their backs held tightly and some stand thinking, reflecting, holding back the war torn tears of the past and present. WE do not know their burdens. The right to Fly a Flag with the Stars and Stripes and to be proud as Americans is what we know. That is what we are proud of. Maybe many of us are not taught proper flag protocol by those who know it because maybe they are trying to keep their children from having to know the burdens and sufferings of war and death. But it is real and we should know it and now we do. So everyone should bond together. And no person should Complain about having Flags Flying-Instead try to imagine a Memorial Day without those RED WHITE And BLUES???? I am a Moore County Native and I honor my family members who have fallen in battle for this country and all others families. God Bless the U.S.A. and Moore County!

DoctorFudd 11 months, 3 weeks ago

As Michelle Obama said " All this for a Flag"

Have you heard the latest? Obama's iPhone app misspells "America".

DoctorFudd 11 months, 3 weeks ago

I also read that Obama visited a shelter for homeless veterans, and when they told him they were having trouble affording milk for the residents, Obama suggested they teach the veterans to milk cows.

Some respect for the military there, huh?

Beth 11 months, 3 weeks ago

We need some patriotic lessions apparently. I visited a church recently that had the American flag on the speaker's left (the congregation's right). Apparently no one knew that the American flag is ALWAYS on the speaker's right. If there is a procession, the flag starts out on the right and crosses over at the front to be always on the speaker's right. Maybe we DAR members are not doing enough to educate people about the flag code as well as other patriotic issues.

Bethc 11 months, 3 weeks ago

DoctorFudd.....It is Mitt Romney's iPhone app that misspelled America. Not Obama's.

MooreNatv 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Wow Beth. Attacking the church now??? Just throw the First Amendment out the window.

clpopeiii 11 months, 3 weeks ago

DoctorFudd ... and, it was actually Romney who made the ill-advised comment about teaching veterans to milk cows: http://news.yahoo.com/pander-veterans-guide-romney-obama-231229284.html (Look under sub-heading "Don't Ever Suggest You are Tougher Than the Veterans")

JD 11 months, 3 weeks ago

As Michelle Obama said " All this for a Flag" Have you heard the latest? Obama's iPhone app misspells "America".

Oh look a wild idiot has appeared. It was Mittens that loves Amercia

CSmithson 3 hours, 8 minutes ago We just had an election and a referendum on a constitutional amendment. Over 60% of registered voters in this county did not bother to come out and fulfill their duty as citizens to participate in our system of government. That is, in my opinion, a much greater travesty and much more disrespectful to those who have died for our rights than someone forgetting to lower a flag or remove their hat.

So true

Beth 11 months, 3 weeks ago

No, MooreNatV, I'm attacking ignorance and the ones of us who should be better teachers.

cantstandya 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Again the subject matter goes from remebering the veterans that have died and those that served to politics and the Obama,Romney thing,neither one of them served have no idea of protocol,most of us that served in Vietnam have learned to live with being ignored or forgotten so I myself carry no grudge for the individuals who neglected to honor a once rich tradition,why would they,they are not one of us.

cantstandya 11 months, 3 weeks ago

"Remembering"Excuse me.

wrich49 11 months, 3 weeks ago

On Memorial Day, I took the time to think about and give thanks for the rights and freedoms that have been hard won by our military men and women. I was thankful that I could do as much or as little as I wanted to do publicly about remembering the day. Much of the day, I kept remembering the trip my sister, niece, and I took to the WWII Memorial last fall. My father is a WWII veteran who is now 88 years old. Our Dad came on a Flight of Honor to D.C,. and we met him at the WWII Memorial. These veterans were treated like returning heroes all day. My father said it was one of the best days of his life I am so thankful that he had that experience and that we got to share it.

MooreNatv 11 months, 3 weeks ago

The Vietnam Veterans of America held a memorial on Saturday. So how did the man in attendance become incensed about the Flag being full staff? Sounds like some discrepancies in the reporting here. Apparently Mr. Jonathan Poverud III is not even a veteran nor a native of Moore County. I ask why would anyone take the initiative to attack the veterans of this county would not take the initiative to offer his services to assist with ensuring the proper flag protocol is being followed during a Veterans Memorial Observance.

jsmith1981 11 months, 3 weeks ago

@MooreNatv, you seem to have your facts mixed up. The US Flag Code, a law of the United States, states that the flag is to be lowered at half staff until Noon on Memorial Day (MONDAY) not on Saturday as you claim. Most American's consider it to be very bad form not to observe the US Flag code. From your post one can assume that Mr. Poverud's concerns maybe well founded. The US Flag code clearly states that it is the responsibility of the owner displaying the flag not the veterans. If you had read the article Mr. Poverud clearly says "Shame on Moore County". Furthermore you make statements that you can not prove the truthfulness of, that is not behavior AMERICANS find appropriate. If an American Citizen pointing out that our government failed to follow our nations laws and to observe a tradition over 100 yrs old to honor our nations dead, that citizen is entitled too and is supported by many of his fellow citizens. You presume to speak for all veterans and Moore County natives, I pretty sure you are in the minority.

jonathan_poverud 11 months, 3 weeks ago

MooreNatv, I was raised to respect and honor the US Flag and follow the US Flag Code. As my friend Jsmith1981 stated, I never mentioned veterans in my criticism. I am a citizen, redressing my government for a grievances a right many men and women have laid down their life for. I believe most citizens of this county share my reverence for our flag, our veterans and our laws.

You are entitled to your opinion but no amount of attempted character assassination on your part will cause me to waiver from the values with which I was raised.

You should know that the Sheriff's Office, County Commissioners and everyone I notified has admitted the mistake and taken proper steps to make sure we honor our dead appropriately next year.

I agree with a number of posters that it is a lack of education on all our parts, and that we should use this to renew our efforts to honor our dead. I have also asked the county to help me get the word out about the memorial service next year in all our communities. Quite frankly the attendance at the service in Carthage was PATHETIC (THAT IS THE COMMUNITIES FAULT, NOT THE VETERANS WHO PLANNED IT).

In the America I was raised to love, a citizen points out a grievance and works to correct the problem.

Jonathan

Beth 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Well said, Jonathan.

JohnChappell 11 months, 3 weeks ago

The service at the Carthage Veterans Memorial described in the story took place on Saturday morning of Memorial Day Weekend rather than on Memorial Day. For clarity, the report has been corrected.

Since the service was not actually on Memorial Day itself – now the last Monday in May instead of May 30 – the Flag Code’s half-staff rule would not have applied.

The good thing is that we are all better informed and next year will see the result. In the mean time, let us all check our flags and deliver any worn wons to the American Legion Post for honorable destruction on Flag Day.

jonathan_poverud 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Mr. Chappell, thank you for the clarification and reminding people of the flag retirement ceremony.

One of the people that instilled the values that prompted me to speak was a Legionnaire who opened the door for me for a number of opportunities including attending the American Legion Department of Florida's Boy State (NC has one too!). A great program for High School Juniors that teaches citizens how to be an integral part of our democracy and how our government works.

We often forget the men and women of organizations such as the Legion, the VFW and large number of veterans support groups who after serving their country serve their fellow vets with many programs to help them in navigating Federal benefits, living life after their service and services like Boy State and the flag retirement ceremonies. Their after service contribution is incredible!

jonathan_poverud 11 months, 3 weeks ago

wdd101st, you bring up a good point. The North Carolina flag guide (http://www.doa.nc.gov/facility/documents/flagbrochure.pdf) mentions a few more days than I knew about.

I will contact The Pilot and see if they are interested in a shortened flag guide to publish on flag day.

FightFireWithFire 11 months, 3 weeks ago

http://halfstaff.org/ You can get reminders here.

MooreNatv 11 months, 3 weeks ago

To jssmith, guess I did not have my facts wrong??? Hmmm... To Mr. Poverud, I am apologetic if you feel that you were being ATTACKED! It’s a blog in an newspaper-that is who you contacted and gave your name to is it not? I am glad that you have such admiration of the Flag. I shall see you on Flag Day then being that you are an ACTIVE member of seeing that our Veterans get the attention and glory they so deserve. In fact I am married to a Veteran. A good man, who fought for this country and saw many of his fellow brothers fall in combat. Next time why can't we just go to the County or town and let them know of A noticed flaw instead of trying to get your name in the paper and get others in trouble? That is (community working together) not to sensualize something to get notoriety. I rest my case. The more I write the more you get off on it. Have a good day.

AFCHIEF 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Here is what the Obama's think of our flag and country.

Michelle Obama's "All this for a damn flag" shown at three different speeds by TheDrRJP

JD 11 months, 3 weeks ago

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/276-74/5123-fox-news-lies-keep-them-out-of-canada

cantstandya 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Not really worth commenting on since we are a nation being led by a majority of men and women that never served, what seems to be just a regular day to many is a very important day for those of us that saluted that flag many times in uniform,seems that the only time we see many honor it is right before a race or sporting event,many have no idea as to the importance and history of honoring the flag.

Mythreekids 11 months, 3 weeks ago

AFCHIEF: There are millions around the world who care nothing for our flag or our country. Your inference is one of the reasons why. However, you are entitled to your opinion. As a member of a family that has had members participating every war since the Civil War, it is an honor for me to be reminded daily that blood that is buried in the sand all over the world and continues to be shed, was just so we can have diverse opinions without being harshly punished. I am grateful for the sacrifices of families who lost sons, husbands, brothers, daughters, mothers, sisters so that I can continue to enjoy the freedoms that I have. While the flag symbolizes so much of the past and present sacrifices, for me, it also is a symbol of love...love of God (doesn't matter who disagrees), love of country and most importantly, love for the people who are the country. And, in my opinion, more disrespectful that not having the flag lowered is the constant display of disdain and lack of respect that the people who make up this country display toward one another. Not just from a racial standpoint, but we seem engulfed by so many biases, that we are further apart as a nation of people that we have ever been. My greatest desire is that we be more respectful of each other's diferences and accept that we do not all think alike, look alike, etc. A very dear gentleman who just turned 89, has taught for 60 years that Love, unconditionally, unconditional love is the most powerful weapon an individual has. It just appears, right now, that somewhere, many of us have forgotten how to do this. When I look at the flag, blowing beautifully in the breeze, I hope I will always be humbled that people who didn't know me sacrificed their lifves for me to enjoy the privilege of being different without condemnation, of being respectful when disrespected and doing my bes to be a peaceful advocate of the land of the free, home of the brave. God bless America and her people.

jonathan_poverud 11 months, 3 weeks ago

MoorNav, anyone who reads your earlier post can see that you attempted to question my character by questioning my reasoning for bringing the fact that our county government missed a 106 yr old tradition and did not observe a 86 yr old law of our nation. Some of us believe in traditions and believe that when we have a duty as a citizen to raise those concerns. If it is your opinion that those values and acting on those values are "going off" you are entitled to that opinion and it is our duty to defend your right to say that.

Why didn't I just go to the local officials and get it corrected? I felt, and feel even more now, that maybe the problem wasn't just the local officials. I do not believe any official deliberately didn't follow the tribute but as Mr. Chappel's article pointed out there was a general lack of knowledge. The Pilot has gotten the information out. Private citizens display the flag as well and most would appreciate knowing about how to properly honor our dead on Memorial Day.

It is not about my name being in the paper, in fact next time I find an issue that needs to be brought the communities attention I would be glad to give you the information do research and let you stand up and get the infamy. I have given interviews on national television it's not that exciting..

I thank your husband for his service.

I see you mention seeing me on flag day, I would be glad to attend any flag day events. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any. Please post the details here!

Jonathan

jonathan_poverud 11 months, 3 weeks ago

cantstandya, sorry to hear you feel that way. I believe there is nothing wrong with America that can't be fixed with what's with right America (No that's not originally my quote).

There has to be a constructive way to solve the problem, If there something we can do to make even a small difference I am willing to work on it.

Jonathan

cantstandya 11 months, 3 weeks ago

jonathan,I have no regrets and consider myself quite lucky to be able to remeber and to have enjoyed this country for many years,but for years it has been chiseled away a piece at a time and no longer resembles what it once was,we have become a nation divided by politicians who prosper on our inability to find leadership capable of holding their ground,instead they give into evey advocacy group and lobbyist that come along just to stay in office,I can remember as a young man the thought of meeting the President would have been a great honor,now I would not get out of my house to greet him or any of the others if they pulled into my driveway,none deserve our loyalty and in part are responsible for the atmosphere they have created,I see more Mexican flags in the rear windows of vehicles today than I have seen of our own flag,it's just the way it is.

cantstandya 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Remember,keep getting that wrong,sorry for my mistakes.

clodfelter37 11 months, 3 weeks ago

As I understand it, the flag is to be raised for a period of time and then lowered half way for a period of time, then raised to the top again for a period of time and then at the end of the day it is to be lowered and put away until next day. All well and good if someone is there to do it; however, on Memorial Day most government offices are closed and with no one there who is to take care of the flag.

cantstandya 11 months, 3 weeks ago

clodfelter37,Your reasoning for the mishap sounds convincing and it is legit,just bad judgement on whoever should have been aware of the correct procedure,but it is not the end of the world and life goes on,maybe next year this year will come to remind those in charge.

Flag Lowering Forgotten on Memorial Day

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