Hoodies: In Defense of a Cozy, Ubiquitous Garment

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Monks wear hoods. Football players wear hoods. Medieval noblewomen swished around their chilly castles in hooded capes. Outdoorspeople winterize their heads with stand-alone hoods or hoods attached to jackets, coats and sweaters.

I wear pullover sweatshirts, hoods up or down, all winter. Nothing's better for keeping the neck warm.

But now "hoodie" evokes fear: a young man, often assumed black or Hispanic, who will snatch your purse, rob your convenience store or worse.

Seventeen-year-old Trayvon Martin, carrying iced tea and Skittles, was described by his alleged killer as wearing a hoodie. No gun, no knife, just a hoodie and the color of his skin. Or maybe not even that, since it was nighttime.

Understandably, hoodies have become the battle flag. Last week a Million Hoodie March took place in New York. On Sunday, Floridians wore hoodies to church in support - and then, I'll wager, stashed them after dark. Geraldo Rivera has espoused the cause.

Teenage boys and men of all races are being urged to abandon their hoodies lest they arouse suspicion. A sign inside the door of the ABC store in Aberdeen informs customers that hoods and helmets must be removed. I asked the clerk if this is enforced. Yes, she answered.

Still, I wonder if she would tell me - a gray-haired white woman - to remove mine on a wet, cold day. I will test this.

Other articles of clothing carry questionable/negative/historical baggage. Remember Hitler's brown shirts and Mussolini's black shirts? Baggy, low-slung jeans spell rap-hip-hoppers. Gangstas wear dark shirts and light ties. Women burned their bras. Overalls denoted "Hee-Haw" farm boys until Sarah Jessica Parker donned a pair over a sexy tank top.

Ski masks inspire dread. But really, we can assume a person wearing a ski mask in the middle of Manhattan on a July afternoon is up to no good? Yet I have worn a ski mask when walking the dog on a frigid Vermont morning. Should I be confronted?

With tensions running high, nobody wants to go on the record. I spoke to two small business owners who admitted they are suspicious of anybody (I'm not buying that) wearing a hoodie, man or woman, sun or rain, day or night. "They look like they're trying to hide something," one clerk said.

It doesn't help that drawings of suspects by police artists often show hoodies. Or that thousands of commemoratives have been printed with Martin's photo.

Or that "the 'hood" refers to neighborhoods where gangs may hang.

Therefore hoodies have become the de facto thug uniform, no less than black and white stripes or orange jumpsuits identify prison inmates.

I'm guessing criminals (also called hoods) will ditch their hoodies for something else. Remember outlaws of the Old West, who tied bandannas over their mugs?

Stockings are so yesterday. Zorro masks are so day-before-yesterday. Maybe fedoras pulled low on the brow. Or turtlenecks rolled up over the face.

Banning hoodies won't stop muggings, any more than banning concealed weapons prevents shootings.

Let's fight the stereotype. Kids wear hoodies. I wear hoodies. Nice teenage boys of all races wear hoodies, as do not-so-nice ones with no criminal intent. Nothing feels better than pulling on a hoodie after emerging from the cold surf.

Just make sure your hoodie is light-colored. The grim reaper wears black.

Contact Deborah Salomon at debsalomon@nc.rr.com.

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Comments

BigE 1 year, 1 month ago

Thought about wearing mine at the reservoir today, but I'd hate to get shot because of it. Oh well, off into the Goodwill pile it goes.

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emb6683 1 year, 1 month ago

"Monks wear hoods. Football players wear hoods. Medieval noblewomen swished around their chilly castles in hooded capes. Outdoorspeople winterize their heads with stand-alone hoods or hoods attached to jackets, coats and sweaters."

And hoods wear hoods.

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fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

A tragic case where a young man has lost his life, I have great sympathy for his parents as I have a son the same age. I am also disturbed by a rush to judgment (ala Duke Lacrosse) by the media, Rev's Al and Jesse and numerous other "leaders". My deepest hope is that true justice prevails, not justice as prescribed by the black panthers. This young man's death has been turned into a circus and there are many who should be ashamed by their efforts to get their face on tv and also to churn this into a racial frenzy. There is only one "truth" and I hope that comes out. I also hope (but have my doubts) that if Mr Zimmerman is found to have done nothing wrong that cooler heads will prevail.

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fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

I have seen several headlines that indicate this shooting has sparked a dialogue on race. I disagree, a dialogue has 2 participants with each willing to hear the other side out. That is not what I have observed. It seems so many people on the left are trying to get a piece of the Trayvon pie. The president with his "if I had a son comment", to the previously mentioned and predictable appearance of the Al and Jesse show to the many elected officials showboating in hoodies. We should expect more from our leaders, they should be encouraging all to be calm and let the justice system do its job. Of course the anti gun lobby is trying to get in on the act.

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JER 1 year, 1 month ago

Ms. Salomon: I understand the point you are making in your article. However, I disagree with some of your logic. Hoodies are inanimate objects. The context under which they are worn is what is up for discussion. I agree, a hooded sweatshirt on a cold blustery winter day is a logical choice. A hooded shirt to pull on after departing the ocean, lake, river or pool makes perfect sense. On the other hand, wearing a hooded shirt in 85 degree weather is a fashion fad that has its roots in the gang culture. Just like wearing pants pulled down to expose ones underwear is a fashion fad with roots in gang and prison lifestyles. It's supposed to look "cool" or "bad" or whatever the current jargon is. And everyone wants to avoid being a nerd (except, of course, actual nerds). Using your example of the ABC store: I would guess that you would, upon entering the store, remove the hooded portion of your shirt from your head before you started shopping and would return the hood to your head as you departed the store. I would look at this as common courtesy to those around you, just as guys should remove their hats when entering a building. To bring this to the point: if you don't want to be mistaken for a thug, don't dress like a thug. Wear apparel appropriate to the time and place you find yourself.

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

I'm going to wait and hear the rest of the story before I give my opinion. Horrible tragedy for all involved. I think too many people are taking sides before they get as many facts as they can. Yes it is an emotional issue, however, I have to agree with fugitiveguy that his death has brought out many opportunistic fame/media hounds. That is a real shame.

Pinecrest has dress code rules and in some bigger cities the students must have mesh back packs . That's the world we live in unfortunately.

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

Also guys: remove your hats when dining...I know this is golf mecca but save your hat for outdoors.

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

If one were to rob a bank one might wear a hoodie and sunglasses to conceal one's identity-I agree with JER-trying to look gangsta will get you noticed.

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MikeNC 1 year, 1 month ago

Ever see American Gangster? Remember what it was that lead to Denzel Washington's demise? He tried please his wife, he went against his own "golden rule", don't call attention to yourself. Diane

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fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

Also, thousands of young black men are killed every year, by a very large percentage by other black males. My guess is that they were just as precious to their parents as Trayvon was yet I doubt any of us knows their name. If black leaders really gave a damn about dead young black men they would address the thousands of deaths and not just the one that gets their face in the media. They are a disgrace.

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debsalomon 1 year, 1 month ago

For Jer and EMB6683: Thanks. You make some good points. Only problem is....hoods (the bad kind) wear sneakers and jeans, too. Should I eliminate those from my wardrobe? As for pulling a hood down when entering a store on a cold or rainy day, I might or I might not. Depends on state of hair. Thankfully, I only go into the ABC store once a year, at Christmas, for a bottle of Southern Comfort. Great with lemon, in hot tea, for a bad cold. for TUFELHUNDEN: Wearing a hoodie and dark glasses to rob a bank is like carrying a sign that says "Hand Over the Money." Surely robbers are onto that. At least in a suit and tie they have a chance.

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Thatcher 1 year, 1 month ago

JER-- You make some interesting points. The facts of this case are still evolving, and we should all wait for the facts to come out before rushing to claim "racism" or that Mr. Zimmerman is guilty. Unfortunately, many have already assumed racism (the usual folks like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the Black Panthers). In fact, the Black Panthers have offered a bounty for the capture of Mr. Zimmerman (who is half hispanic, and half Jewish). Zimmerman's gated community, which is only 47% white (the rest hispanic and black), had sufferred a rash of break-ins. To me, whether Mr. Martin was black seems less relevant than whether he was a stranger in the community, or wearing a hoodie. This entire case is tragic, and hopefully the police will get to the bottom of this. Be well!

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RmeMP 1 year, 1 month ago

@ JER:

good post; see, we CAN agree on things :)

@ Ms. Salomon:

as former law enforcement, i can tell there is a VERY good reason the ABC store (amongst others) require patrons to remove their hoods - it's so the cameras can have a good look at you in case you are there with bad intentions. I ASSURE you, it is not so they could have a look at the kind of "hair day" you are having :)

in this particular criminal case, PLEASE wait and let the MULTIPLE investigations conclude before making a judgement. as FugitveGuy said earlier - REMEMBER THE DUKE CASE!!!

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skylinefirepest 1 year, 1 month ago

Deb...I've seen several pictures of you but I've never noticed one in which you had your blue jeans hanging down below your butt!! When you wear your hoodie to that store you mentioned how about hanging your jeans way down low and call me...I'd like to see the reaction from the storekeeper to that!! Personally I wouldn't see you as a threat that way but it'd be very likely that I'd be rolling on the floor laughing and might get stepped on.

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emb6683 1 year, 1 month ago

A monk, a football player, a medieval noblewoman, an outdoorsperson, Deb Salmon and a hood walk into my store, each wearing a hood. The monk, with his brown robe, is easily identifiable as a monk and is no threat. The football player, with his shouler pads, is easily identifiable as a football player and is no threat. The medieval noblewoman, with her chain link vest (or whatever) is easily identifiable as a medieval noblewoman and is no threat. The outdoorsperson, with his/her down quilted jacket and skis over the shoulder is easily recognzable as an outdoorsperson and is no threat. Deb Salmon, a 40 something white woman, is easily recognizable as a 40 something white woman and is no threat. The hood is not easily identifiable, and is therefore questionable. And, sad to say, if he is a young black man, he is perceived as a threat.

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fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

Its very dissapointing that so many seem to want this to be about race. It seems we've learned nothing from the Duke case where so many convicted those boys long before any testimony had begun and as we later found out, total fabrication. Particularly despicable was the behavior of the Duke faculty. People breaking their neck to jump on the racism bandwagon, again. Have you who seem determined to make this about race ever thought that the hoody worn in certain settings (85 degrees, 3am at a convenience store) might be just as menacing whether worn by a person of any race? Of course not.

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geoffcutler 1 year, 1 month ago

Deb, read Juan Williams in today's WSJ.

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JER 1 year, 1 month ago

RmeMP: Thanks. I agree with your comments as well. I think most of us are saying pretty much the same thing in that we should reserve judgement until all the facts are available. A most interesting fact was revealed today when video of Mr. Zimmerman arriving at police headquarters in handcuffs and exhibiting no signs of a broken nose or trauma to the back of his head.

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JER 1 year, 1 month ago

geoffcutler: I read the Juan Williams piece in the WSJ and I agree with almost everything stated in the article. I differ on his theory of "failed schools". At a minimum, it is a combination of the schools and the student that have failed, but that is a subject for discussion another place and time. In an effort to be "politically correct" and not offend anyone, we have, as a country, danced around many of the facts that Mr. Williams presents. I commend him for shining a light on the problems facing blacks in this country. His actions will help solve those problems much quicker than those who seek to find excuses rather than solutions.

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geoffcutler 1 year, 1 month ago

JER We find common ground yet again. I also agree with your assessment of "failed schools." But, Juan points to the sources of these students in his piece. My guess is when you were a student, you came to school well trained in how to act and behave...by your parents.

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AFCHIEF 1 year, 1 month ago

How come we didn't hear Al and Jesse when this happened!

None

by AFCHIEF

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debsalomon 1 year, 1 month ago

For Thatcher: Half Hispanic, half Jewish? I can't believe this is being said on the blogs. I have even heard it on TV, but not recently. What, in the name of God, does George Zimmerman's RELIGION, whatever it is, have to do with this??? Would you identify another alleged criminal as half Canadian, half Methodist? I realize that police and other descriptions often include race as a means of identification. But religion? I don't even want to print the word this suggests. Perhaps you meant no offense to anyone but think about it. Half Chinese half CAtholic? Half Native American half Southern Baptist? Would you repeat those descriptions? Let's take a deep breath and start over. And for EMB6683: Thank you, Thank you. Seventy-something, not fortysomething. As for the low-rise jeans....Noooooooooo. My grandsons would be horrified.

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geoffcutler 1 year, 1 month ago

I've gotten used to the provocative cartoons of Eric Carlsen, printed in The Pilot. Wednesday's, however, was particularly disgusting, and served no other purpose that I could see than to fan flames of racism. Too bad.

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

Jewish is not just a religion Deb.

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debsalomon 1 year, 1 month ago

Really. Then what is it?

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BostonYankee 1 year, 1 month ago

geoffcutler agree! The cartoon was very inflammatory. Where is the outrage concerning the Black Panthers bounty on George Zimmerman? Spike Lee erroneously tweeting Zimmerman's address? Will Obama phone the parents of the 13 year old Kansas City boy who was doused with gasoline and set afire by two 16 year old African Americans because he was white? One of the attackers uttered, "This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy." Where is the national outrage over this attack that happened on March 4th? Imagine if a white supremacy group placed a bounty on the heads of these two attackers?

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Mythreekids 1 year, 1 month ago

There is some validity to all your opinions and some invalid ones. Wdd101st...check out the story of the Vermont Teacher who was killed over the weekend by a 'white husband and wife' who lured her out of her home with a lie. Point...atrocity is not limited to one race. Crime is not committed by just black folks. However, if you go into any store in Southern Pines, a black kid will be followed around much quicker than a white kid, especially male, with or without a hoodie. As an adult, I have left a store because while browsing, a clerk (the same one) kept following me around asking if she could help me. And, I happened to be there with a friend/co-worker, (who happened to be white) because we were shopping for Angel Tree at Christmas, who was not approached one time. Some things just don't happen to caucasians like they do black people. Doesn't matter that it is not acknowledged. Stuff happens. It is a reality of American life. We have to teach our male children that they must always go the extra mile to stay off the radar because they are held to a different standard of accountability in area of their lives. For instance, during last presidential campaign. Field rep was speeding on Penn. Avenue (about 50 in 35 zone, he says. Police car meets him. He slows down because he thought he was going to be pulled over. Didn't happen. Police car turned around and stopped two black males walking down the same street. It was summer and they did not have on hoodies. The hoodie is so not the issue here. Black on Black killing is no more sickening that any killing. But if you leave home with a gun, the inferred intent is to use the gun. Folks, it may not be what we want it to be, but it is what it is. Doesn't matter what skin tone, incidents like these need to STOP. No race is immune to bad behavior. Whether you are Bernie Madoff or the cop in NY who raped a young woman at gunpoint, or the policeman who beat a black male in southern pines while he had handcuffs on. Harsh Racism still exists in our country. The only way it will dissipate is individuals, like you and me, learn to respect each other's differences and still treat each other with civility. I hate this kid is dead. But I regret more that I have to teach my kids that they will always be looked at differently by many because of their skin color. And, so, they have to always be on their guard. And there is no freedom in that. Have a great day, folks. I will always treat you with the respect that I would hope to receive from you, no matter your skin color.

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

Doesn't that help to create a home grown mistrust of other races then?

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Mythreekids 1 year, 1 month ago

Absolutely not. Especially because of our family history. What they are taught is respect for and acceptance of themselves, regardless of what others think. And, not to be surprised or hurt when they are judged based on their color. They are not taught to fear or distrust. But they are taught to value themselves and to never be ashamed of themselves. If we don't teach at home that they are not inferior, who else is going to do it.

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

True. I understand what you are saying now.

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JohnChappell 1 year, 1 month ago

A long time ago this state passed an anti-mask law. The cause of it was hoods, not hoodies. Masked gangs of hooded murderers, calling themselves Christians, had been terrorizing and killing people they didn't like. Most of the time they went after people of color, but they went after homosexuals and Jews, too.

So North Carolina unmasked the Ku Klux Klan. Having unhooded the hooded, should the state now unhoodie the hoodied?

Hoodies are currently fashionable, but they can also be frightening, especially if worn with sunglasses as demonstrated on the floor of the House of Representatives.That aspect of alarm could even be why hoodies are in style.

None of us really knows right now just what took place that night in Florida, except possibly the man who pulled his trigger. Maybe he was scared. Maybe that hoodied young black teen was just as scared as he was.

Considering how many black men and women have been murdered over the long years by supremely confident whites, anybody of color could be justifiably fearful – especially at night, with white men on the prowl.

That's the real shame of it.

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MikeNC 1 year, 1 month ago

JohnChappell 7 minutes ago ....Considering how many black men and women have been murdered over the long years by supremely confident whites, anybody of color could be justifiably fearful – especially at night, with white men on the prowl. That's the real shame of it.

Are you speaking of current times about white men on the prowl and those of color should be fearful? Are you serious in what you just said? Somehow I must be reading this wrong... Mike

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geoffcutler 1 year, 1 month ago

Juan Williams points to some interesting statistical- and current- data in his WSJ column on just who is killing whom.

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JohnChappell 1 year, 1 month ago

I am speaking about living memories in people I know whose family members were murdered. Sure, things are better now; but neighborhoods, churches, and many parts of life remain racially divided. Do we really want to live in a vigilante nation?

Make fair the conditions of life, and there will be not need to be fearful. Every time you see a gated community, you see a monument to fear.

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OldSpook 1 year, 1 month ago

To expand on AFCHIEF's posting;

In January of 2007 a young couple, Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian went out on a date in Knoxville, Tennessee. On their way home, they were attacked and abducted. The man, Christopher, was raped. He was doused in petrol and set on fire. Eventually he was shot. His mutilated body is dumped on a railway line. He was the lucky one.

Channon – the girl – was not only forced to watch the rape and horrific murder of her boyfriend, she endured several days of being beaten, gang raped and sodomized. After being forced to perform fellatio on of her attackers, they forced her to drink bleach to destroy DNS evidence. They took turns urinating on her, they she was strangled to death and stuffed into a bins where she was eventually found days later by shocked police.

The photos might give you a clue as to why you have probably not heard about this case in the mainstream media and why the national and international press have not gone near it despite its obvious newsworthiness.

That’s right, the victims are white and the perpetrators are black, and that does not fit into the media’s simple narrative structure which holds that whites are the racist oppressors and minorities the blameless sufferers of that oppression.

Even the staggering amount of black-on-white race crime and other cases like these (you think I am exaggerating? Check out The Wichita Massacre. Bet you have not heard of that either) cannot dent the media’s self-censorship on this topic.

This is a crime of almost unbelievable cruelty and viciousness. The question is why was was not reported in the national and international media? Where was the outcry about this truly horrific crime?

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

The Newsom/Christian murders and supposed failure of the national media to pick that murder out of the thousands that occur in the U.S. have become the cause celebre for racist butthurt in the U.S. However, consider this:

It is true that the bulk of the initial news reportage about the Newsom/Christian murders was local (predominantly in Tennessee, where the crimes took place, and in neighboring Kentucky) while the case received little or no national coverage by major news outlets, a phenomenon some attributed to racial bias on the part of the national news media. However, the fact is that only a tiny handful of the approximately 15,000 murders that occur in the United States every year makes national news, and the cases that do tend to attract prolonged, nationwide coverage are ones exhibiting a combination of factors (e.g., scandal, mystery, sexual elements, celebrity involvement, shockingly large numbers of deaths, murders of children and other victims who elicit especial sympathy) that makes them particularly fascinating and compelling to the public at large, such as the still-unsolved murder of 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey, the mysterious disappearance (and death) of pregnant Laci Peterson, the massacre of 32 students and faculty at Virginia Tech, and the celebrity trial to determine whether actress Lana Clarkson committed suicide or was killed by reclusive record producer Phil Spector. And of course, the fact that the victims were white and the (presumed) killer black didn't stop the O.J. Simpson murder trial from becoming the most media-covered event in the history of U.S. jurisprudence.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp

Oh, and:

As for the question of why the murders weren't prosecuted as a hate crime, the answer is that no evidence demonstrated the race of the victims was a motivation in their killing. Police, prosecutors, and the families of the victims all stated that they believed Newsom and Christian were not victims of a hate crime.

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MikeNC 1 year, 1 month ago

Old Spook...I'm sure that terrible story is one of the living memories of those murdered that Chappell was referring to...Mike

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OldSpook 1 year, 1 month ago

1) Your continued insults are neither required nor appreicated. Why insult the memory of these two torture/murder victums? Truly written with exceptionally poor judgement. "The Newsom/Christian murders and supposed failure of the national media to pick that murder out of the thousands that occur in the U.S. have become the cause celebre for racist butthurt in the U.S. However, consider this:" 2) The point was that this appears to be a double standard. Media attention is made over one situation and very much played down in another case. No amount of Lawyer double-speak or continued condescension can excuse this manipulation.

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OldSpook 1 year, 1 month ago

Sorry MikeNC, perhaps you are correct and my blood is up right now. Just really tired of kids, and people in general, killing and dying for no reason other than stupidity.

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MikeNC 1 year, 1 month ago

JohnChappell 30 minutes ago ... Do we really want to live in a vigilante nation?

Ask your question to the New Black Panthers and to Sharpton and Jackson who thrive on such terrible news stories. Zimmerman is not even White, but is "made so" for the convenience of the message they want to deliver. And what does your living memory BS have anything to do with you stating that "especially at night, with white men on the prowl. That's the real shame of it" line of yours. Before this is over innocent people will be murdered and you help propigate it.

....Mike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLiJ4k5QPNs&feature=related

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MikeNC 1 year, 1 month ago

Old Spook...Your blood is up right now for good reason and mine is right up there with yours. People who excuse such behavior with some sort of written political prop in such blogs will have some more innocent blood on their hands...but if it drives a political train up their tracks, their reasoning must be it is worth it...Mike

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

Why insult the memory of these two torture/murder victums?

Why use them as a prop to claim discrimination against white people that their deaths don't support? Seems to me that you're insulting their memory by turning them into a talking point.

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

Man, it's starting to look like Stormfront in here.

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geoffcutler 1 year, 1 month ago

John, I wasn't aware that this tragedy had been settled, and that we know for certain what has occurred. Your comments seem akin to Mr. Carlson's cartoon in yesterday's Pilot. I'm looking at it and didn't realize the boy shot was a toddler sucking on a lollipop. Not even a hoodie?!

I think we all know that pockets of racism still exist. Maybe the Florida laws pertaining to this case need review. But one thing we probably do know...only the few and basest among us wouldn't see this for the horrific tragedy that it is. Fanning racial flames, then, doesn't help at all.

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debsalomon 1 year, 1 month ago

teufelhunden: Am still awaiting your reply to question posed after your comment "Jewish is not just a religion." Please enlighten me. Thanks. Another comment puzzles me: "Zimmerman is not even white." Is that because he is "half Hispanic?" I know some very white (as in light-skinned) Hispanics ... but the point is, we're still profiling

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BigE 1 year, 1 month ago

A lost point in all the racial misdirection is that if Zimmerman was not carrying a gun there would not be a death here. I have said it many times. I am okay with an individual owning guns and using them as protection for one's home. But unless the individual who carries is willing to be fully accountable and go to jail for shooting an innocent bystander or creating the conflict like it appears in this case, I am against concealed carry permits. We want our cake and eat it too. We want to be tough guys pulling out our weapon to confront the "bad guys" but if we are mistaken in the heat of the moment we want free passes too. Pick one or the other but not both. Our gun laws have gone too far.

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

A lost point in all the racial misdirection is that if Zimmerman was not carrying a gun there would not be a death here.

The problem's not the gun...it's the guy carrying it who went out playing cops and robbers after the 911 operator had explicitly told him "we don't need you to do that."

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dogboy 1 year, 1 month ago

JER, you made some good points. The question that needs to be asked, by all concerned, is why a young black male wearing a "hoodie" is considered suspicious and/or untrustworthy? Unfortunately, certain clothing is associated with the "gangsta" lifestyle. Is this fair? Hell no. Is it reality, sad to say yes. The message perceived is the message received. About 25 or 30 years ago Jesse Jackson was walking the streets of Washington D.C. at night when he heard foot steps behind him. He admitted that when he turned and saw that it was a white man he was relieved! Do you think the reverend was guilty of stereotyping ?

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geoffcutler 1 year, 1 month ago

A good point, Dusty.

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

dogboy: I've got two kids. Both honor students. Both athletes. One in college, one headed that way.

Both own and wear hooded sweatshirts.

Of course, they're safe, because they're white.

Don't blame the victim for what he was wearing.

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

Some people will identify themselves as being Jewish even if they aren't actively practicing. There are secular Jews. Some identify with being Jewish as a way to describe themselves; they see it as very much part of their ethnicity. Some people identify with being Jewish as it pertains to their cultural practices or their genealogy. Some famiilies have traditions that tie them to their heritage like a Passover seder, but they don't go to temple. My friend describes herself as Jewish not white. I understand it as part of who she is, not what she does. She identifies with ancestors in Russia, Poland and Israel and she feels that this is her ethnicity. Not everyone would agree, but I think it is different than being called a Catholic or Baptist.

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debsalomon 1 year, 1 month ago

And you think this is why the bloggers and above commenter identified Zimmerman as "half Hispanic, half Jewish?" I'm done.

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Thatcher 1 year, 1 month ago

debsalomon (10 hours, 15 min. ago)-- You might want to re-read my post. My point was that no one here has any idea whether racism was involved at all. Yet the NY Times led the way for certain liberals by labeling Zimmerman as a "white hispanic." http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/why-did-new-york-times-call-george-zimmerman-white-hispanic/2012/03/28/gIQAW6fngS_blog.html. Why? Well some (like me) believe that many on the left have a certain narrative that must be maintained: white man stalks and kills black youth. What if the Times had labeled Zimmerman a hispanic? Or black hispanic? Or what if the Times starts calling Obama a "black caucasian?" Silly? Yes. The value of anyone's life-- including Trayvon's -- is not lessened or increased by the amount of melanin in them or in the person causing their death. To me, this is a tragic event, in which a 17 year-old was killed. I don't know the facts, and neither do you. But playing the race card on either side is wrong, and dangerous (hence the Black Panthers' bounty for Zimmerman). I think "supporters" of Trayvon were wrong to release pictures of him when he was 13 (presumably to depict innocence), and I think "supporters" of Zimmerman are equally wrong to release photos of Trayvon from his Twitter account (looking perhaps more menacing and flipping the bird). All teenagers (Trayvon included) have pictures taken to impress their friends. Photos have NOTHING to do with Trayvon's character. The police and investigators will do their job, and until then, folks who want to scream "racism" should just be quiet.

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Thatcher 1 year, 1 month ago

debsalomon (3 hours, 23 min. ago)-- "(B)ut the point is, we're still profiling." Who is "we?" Me? You? Zimmerman? How do you know Zimmerman was "profiling?" You don't. And no one else here does either. Including me. You are far too intelligent to post such things.

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dogboy 1 year, 1 month ago

Dusty, I wear a hoodie from time to time but I am certain I don't instill fear in anyone. So why does a hoodie on a young black male have the opposite effect?

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fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

"A lost point in all the racial misdirection is that if Zimmerman was not carrying a gun there would not be a death here."

Not neccesarily, if eye witness accounts are found reliable then maybe Zimmerman would be dead. Did you ever think of that. Of course if that had happened, we would likely have never heard of any of this.

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JER 1 year, 1 month ago

This discussion has gone about as far as it can go. All of us are speculating based on bits and pieces of information that may or may not be reliable. We all need to cool our jets and let the case go forward. But the subject of clothing, how it's worn, where it's worn and what image it projects got me thinking about a pet peeve of mine. When someone is arrested during the commission of a crime, they eventually get their day in court. But they show up for trial in business suits, with a clean shave, freshly trimmed hair, all the ink that can be covered is covered and all the body piercings are removed. I think that every defendant should show up for court appearing exactly as they were when arrested and remain that way until the conclusion of the court proceedings. I think that defendants should be viewed in the same context that the arresting officers got to see.

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MikeNC 1 year, 1 month ago

Good points JER...In both your first comment and this one here. One portion of the events that is not speculation is the seeking of revenge from a portion of our society, right from the start before much of anything was actually known. I watched Sharpton on his MSNBC program last night. Pure hatred. Those folks exist amongst us and as far as I know; nothing is being attempted to calm the situation.

Your second comment would put that 'context' you speak of directly into the court room for all to view. LEO's seldom get the credit they deserve for what their job entails.

And Debsalomon....Do not forget about the second half of what I said while your being puzzled by the first part...."Zimmerman is not even White, but is "made so" for the convenience of the message they want to deliver." There should not be anything puzzling about that as you watch the characters I also mentioned....The New Black Panthers, Sharpton and Jackson demonstrate their HATRED towards the white race at most any given opportunity. The race card is wrong regardless of whom or which color is dealing the cards or how much money some of them put into their pockets just by dealing the card...Mike

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

"And you think this is why the bloggers and above commenter identified Zimmerman as "half Hispanic, half Jewish?" I'm done." - DS

I stated that "Jewish" is not just a religion responding to your astonishment and outrage in thinking that someone mentioned religion. Not defending anyone or agreeing with anyone. You wanted me to explain. You wanted to take a deep breath and start over. I was replying to your question. I wasn't commenting about what the other posters said. I think there's a misunderstanding here. I tried to answer your question as to why "Jewish" is not just a religion thoughtfully and respectfully. I do not pretend to have absolute knowledge as to why people say what they say or what they could've meant. I agree that breathing is in order.

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BigE 1 year, 1 month ago

I was born a Jew because my mother is Jewish. I do not practice any religion but am fine being considered "ethnically" Jewish. Deb, I do not believe any hostilites were intended.

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skylinefirepest 1 year, 1 month ago

JER made an extremely good point and one that I totally agree with. I've been at "the scene" to see how the arrestee is dressed and later, in court and seen the arrestee and didn't realize it was the same person. Dusty will give us hell about not wanting to prejudice the court, but is it really?? I'm starting to side with Zimmerman simply because the media is trying to crucify him.

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

Not neccesarily, if eye witness accounts are found reliable then maybe Zimmerman would be dead.

Yeah, those Skittles are vicious little suckers.

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debsalomon 1 year, 1 month ago

teufelhunden: I appreciate your definition of being Jewish other than the religion. It was thoughtful and correct. Of course I have first-hand experience and was curious about what others understood. HOWEVER, I stand my ground on this: The first bloggers and news reporters who identified Zimmerman as half Hispanic, half Jewish, were coming from a different place. They could have said half Hispanic, half German since I read his father is of German descent....or second-generation German, and the name could be either German or German/Jewish.. These first comments on the national scene were quickly quelled, making their intent all the more obvious. For Big E: For you to describe yourself as ethnically Jewish is fine. My father was a proud "culinary" Jew"....brought up in an orthodox family, rebelled, but retained a love for the culture and, especially the food. For a third party reporting on a volatile issue to describe you, a stranger, as half (or whole) Jewish is an entirely different matter.

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JustThinking 1 year, 1 month ago

Hoodies are cool, I have one, and it's warm! But the concern should be......The Black Panthers!? Why oh why is it okay for "them" to have their "group" and be allowed to exist when the KKK was condemned and disband? I'm just wondering how this can be. Is this country just so intimidated by certain powers or what? No smart--- comments from I'm a harleyman, I am truly asking for a voice of reason. This whole case is about something else, right?

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

But the concern should be......The Black Panthers!? Why oh why is it okay for "them" to have their "group" and be allowed to exist when the KKK was condemned and disband?

Dry your eyes. The KKK still exists.

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JustThinking 1 year, 1 month ago

Well then where are they every time a white child gets killed by a black person?l. Or foe that matter each time a black person kills a black child. Don't get me wrong, Im not for any of this, but I am concerned, because it seems that there is an inferior population that is not taking a stand. Is the problem that the shooter has not been arrested and charged for what they believe is a murder?

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

Well then where are they every time a white child gets killed by a black person?l.

Justhinking, apparently you feel the KKK should be doing more.

I'm sure the Klan would be glad to have you. Just Google and contact them through one of their websites. Maybe you can rouse them to take more action.

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AFCHIEF 1 year, 1 month ago

Justhinking has a valid point. Al Sharpton and Jesse get a whole bunch of face time raising hell that a white person did something wrong to a black person and the media is more than happy to oblige them in there rants. BUT DAMN where are these 2 racists when a black person kills a whitey. Did AL and Jesse ever apologize to the Duke lacrose players. HELL NO they didn't!!!

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

AFCHIEF, which post are you agreeing with? The one where justhinking's wistful that the Klan isn't around anymore or the one after he found out that it still is and he wished they'd do more? Or both? Maybe you can sign up together and get a deal on the sheets and hoods.

BTW, Jesse Jackson, when asked about the New Black Panther "bounty" on Zimmerman, called for Martin's supporters to remain "focused and non-violent."

Bet you won't see that on Faux News.

And the person who did the most to push the prosecution of the Duke Lacrosse players was Nancy Grace, who's white. She never apologized either. In fact the night charges were dropped, she had a guest host on and never mentioned it again. But that doesn't feed the racist's narrative of how put upon and discriminated against white people are by the media, so I guess it doesn't matter.

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teufelhunden 1 year, 1 month ago

Why are you trying to personally insult JustThinking, DR? Why?

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

I'm just trying to make him feel better, after he seemed all unhappy and wistful about what he thought was the demise of the Klan.

And I figured they'd welcome folks like justhinking, who likes to say things like "gangstas gotta have they shooz!"

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AFCHIEF 1 year, 1 month ago

Telehunden, thats DR normal replys, insult when you have a different point of view

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

Telehunden, thats DR normal replys, insult when you have a different point of view

AFCHIEF's third post here:

AFCHIEF 2 months ago MOONBEAM, keep slamming the Tea Party, BUT YOUR OCCUPY FRIENDS have had thousands of arrests, rapes, flag burning, countless vandalism, millions spent on police, but the TEA Party has the problem. You maam are WHACKED

AFCHIEF's fourth post here:

AFCHIEF 2 months ago MOONIE so let me get this STRAIGHT, YOU ALONG WITH OBAMA, PELOSI AND REID eagerly endorse and support RAPE, ROBBERY, VANDALISM, CRAPPING ON THE US FLAG. These are all actions committed by you and YOUR OCCUPY TURDS. So YES OR NO. Because everything you write about supports these criminal actions

Pot, meet kettle.

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AFCHIEF 1 year, 1 month ago

Bring up posts from 2 months ago DR. I've turned over a new page within the last month. I saw that I was becoming a typical liberal with the name calling and slandering. Unfortunatley I fell to your level.

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

You didn't fall, Ace, you started at that level. Don't play the innocent victim here.

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AFCHIEF 1 year, 1 month ago

DR, not playing innocent victim or anything else you want to come up with. YOU go ahead and continue to mock, slander, and name call all you want.

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geoffcutler 1 year, 1 month ago

Guess you haven't noticed that this site and a lot of its commenters have been cleaning themselves up.

"Maybe you can sign up together and get a deal on the sheets and hoods." DR

So, now, not only are you calling others racists, but you think they want to be Klan members? I'd bet that a lot of the folks on here have heard enough now of that kind of talk to realize just how rediculous it is to be a part of it.

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debsalomon 1 year, 1 month ago

My, my. I never cease to be amazed that a little throwaway piece I wrote about hoodies created a tsunami. God bless freedom of expression, even when it always ends up on the same topics. No doubt, if I wrote about chocolate cake, somebody would spin it back to Pres. Obama, or birth control, or something contentious. Look what happened with the Rush Limbaugh rant. By the way, has he weighed in on the Trayvon killing?

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

Geoff: justthinking was the one griping that there was a New Black Panther Party but that the KKK wasn't allowed to exist, then griping that the KKK wasn't doing enough "every time a white child gets killed by a black person".

Then of course, there's that Hey, the gangstas gotta have they shuuuuuuz! comment by jt a couple days ago.

If the racism's going to be that blatant, then don't get all indignant when I point it out. Of course, fake indignation is what you always pull out when you've got no real argument, so I don't know why I'm always surprised.

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

By the way, has he weighed in on the Trayvon killing?

I'm thinking he's terrified of losing any more advertisers.

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geoffcutler 1 year, 1 month ago

My point was that overall, this site has been cleaning itself up. People are resisting the temptation to lash out with the name-calling and rudeness. If I'm reading JT right, he was asking about the double standards in racist organizations and how each are viewed differently by certain segments of our population and media. And unless I missed something, I don't see the lashing out or name-calling in anything he said.

Are the Black Panthers a racist organization like the KKK? Is it okay to take out a bounty on Mr. Zimmerman? Is racism something reserved for whites only? Do you think that because I have just asked these questions, I too must be a racist and should sign up with the others to get a deal on sheets and hoods?

The thing about calling others racists is that one cannot possibly know what is in another's heart. All it does is enflame passions so that no-one ever gets around to discussing the issue in an honest way.

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AFCHIEF 1 year, 1 month ago

I think DR was neutered by the new Pilot editor. He has been slightly more polite than usual. I think John Nagy had a heart to heart with Dusty.

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JustThinking 1 year, 1 month ago

MR. DUSTY RHOADES, What if I am black! I don't think the KKK will let me in will they? You seem to know so much about them! Hmmmmm. I was simply making reference to the ignorance of racism and the organized groups that breed and feed it. By the way.....You are harmful not helpful.

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AFCHIEF 1 year, 1 month ago

Harley, the only reason you are on these blogs are to insult anyone who disagrees with DR. Once in awhile you copy and paste some sort of link. But 95% of your posts have useless insults. Point in case just like your last post.

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fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

"Yeah, those Skittles are vicious little suckers. "

What does that have to do with an eye witness report of Trayvon beating Zimmermans head on the pavement? Why the need to be childish?

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MikeNC 1 year, 1 month ago

im_a_harleyman 0 minutes ago ...btw - DR and I share many of the same views. I don't know him personally and probably never will.

Too Funny...I bet you two share ALL of the same views and KNOW eack other VERY personally....Mike

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Thatcher 1 year, 1 month ago

harley-- That was uncalled for. You have so much more to offer than disgusting comments.

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

AFCHIEF 2 hours, 7 minutes ago I think DR was neutered by the new Pilot editor. He has been slightly more polite than usual. I think John Nagy had a heart to heart with Dusty.

You got the same e-mail I did, Spuds. The fact that you're pretending you didn't speaks volumes about you.

MR. DUSTY RHOADES, What if I am black!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! Sure you are.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

Priceless. Absolutely priceless.

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

harley-- That was uncalled for. You have so much more to offer than disgusting comments.

And this:

and KNOW eack other VERY personally....Mike

Doesn't worry you at all.

Typical. And exactly why I don't take your opinion seriously.

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Thatcher 1 year, 1 month ago

Actually DR, I read MikeNC's comment to mean that you and harley were good friends and were coordinating your liberal posts here. If I misread it and missed the "sexual" innuendo to which you refer, then it was because of my naivety about gross comments. harley's post was certainly intended to convey disgusting comments about someone's wife. And whether you take seriously my opinions here, I could care less. I enjoy your columns, but your personal attacks on anyone who dares disagree with you here are sad. Like harley, to me, you have alot to offer here if you'd cut out the personal attacks.

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Thatcher 1 year, 1 month ago

harley-- Like I said to DR, I didn't read MikeNC's post that way, and if that's the way he meant it, he owes you and DR an apology. And you, too, owe Mike and Diane an apology. Your posts here are insightful and entertaining (and other than Courseaire, you've cornered the market on humor here). Your posts are usually great, even though I may disagree with you. I'm about ready to give up on DR, though. Be well!

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AFCHIEF 1 year, 1 month ago

DR, sorry hate to disappoint you but I never received any email. So by the sound of it someone high up on the Pilot staff did contact you about your problem with being civil. LMAO

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dustyrhoades 1 year, 1 month ago

You know how I know you're lying, Spuds? Because the person on the list of folks that e-mail was sent to whose e-mail didn't check out got banned They're gone and you're still here.

So your claim that you "turned over a new page within the last month" all on your own? A lie. Pure and simple. You're busted, afchiefguy@yahoo.com...and if that's not you're account, you're gone.

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RmeMP 1 year, 1 month ago

Ok im confused, I didn't receive an email - was I supposed to? Lol

Not sure about AFChief, but I did in fact become more civil on my decision.

Have a good night all!

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Thatcher 1 year, 1 month ago

Best I can tell, dustyrhoades and AFCHIEF are competing for who first can get banned from this site. I would hope The Pilot guys (regardless of private emails) would let both stay. Both post interesting things, albeit with spice and periodic(?) personal attacks. For me, I'd keep both. Thanks.

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