Attempts To Defend Rush Miss thePoint
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By Jim Heim
Special toThe Pilot
Bob Levy’s March 11 column defending Rush Limbaugh following his vicious attack on Georgetown law student Sandra Fluke was as wildly wide of the mark as was Rush’s original diatribe.
In the torrent of words following the event, much of the context has been lost.
Ms. Fluke was invited to speak to congressional Democrats after Republicans staged a hearing about contraceptive issues featuring only elderly white men. As women have a stake in the issue, it seemed only reasonable to get their perspective.
Although the testimony involved the use of birth control, the witness never said a word about her own sex life, nor whether she ever used birth control. She spoke of heartbreaking cases of women at the school who suffered painful and sometimes life-threatening conditions such as endometriosis, ovarian cysts and other maladies for which physicians prescribe birth
control pills for their hormonal properties.
It turns out that the students, who are required to purchase health care policies through the school using $1,800 a year of their own money, aren’t covered for any condition for which hormonal contraceptives are the appropriate medication.
Note that at no point was Ms. Fluke’s own sex life a topic (and note too that not a dollar of church/school funds are spent for that insurance), yet Rush Limbaugh branded her a “slut” and a “prostitute” and averred that she was having so much sex that she couldn’t afford her pills. Apparently Mr. Limbaugh doesn’t know that it’s a pill a day, no matter how active or not she might be. Rush has never let ignorance stand in the way of a good opinion.
After the predictable uproar, Limbaugh issued an “apology” expressing regret for a poor choice of words. That apology was clearly written by his lawyers and publicists. A “poor choice of words” would have included every word he uttered on the subject, including “and” and “the.” (Hat tip to Mary McCarthy.)
No woman should be subjected to such a withering display of disrespect for simply expressing her opinion on women’s health care and the insurance they pay for. If Mr. Limbaugh ever decides to truly apologize, he should start from that point. And asking her to send sex tapes to pay for her contraceptives was simply inexcusable.
But that’s not unusual for Rush. He bullies women (calling Amy Carter “the most unattractive presidential daughter in the history of the country”), bullies children (calling then-13-year-old Chelsea Clinton the “White House dog”), and has supported child rapists (defending the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda, known famously for ghastly atrocities and kidnaping children for sex slavery). When it comes to apologies, Mr. Limbaugh could have a full-time job.
But in a larger sense, he’s completely mistaken in his view of contraceptive coverage in health insurance policies, as are the Republicans who support his views. Their fight against employer-sponsored birth control is misguided on a number of levels.
First, the money that pays for birth control coverage is not that of the employer, but of the worker. It’s part of his or her paycheck as a result of the peculiar history of health insurance in this country. The boss has no more right to tell an employee what medical conditions will be covered than to prohibit her from buying contraceptives with her own earnings.
Too, the advent of reliable contraception has revolutionized life for women. Before the pill, only 18 percent of women held full-time jobs. Now it’s 63 percent. Our nation’s economy would crater completely if women were not able to participate fully.
And American women are not about to give up control of their fertility without a fight. The cost of contraceptive coverage is vastly less than for the pregnancies that such coverage allows women to prevent. And in the final analysis, it’s her burden to bear or not.
Messrs. Limbaugh and Levy owe Sandra Fluke a sincere apology. No woman should be slandered so thoroughly for expressing honest opinions on matters important to the health care of women. And Republicans need to include women in their debates regarding important issues. We are long past the era when men know best and women must follow their dictates.
Jim Heim is chairman of the Moore County Democratic Party. Contact him at democrat@heim.us.
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Comments
SH59 1 year, 2 months ago
Excellent letter, thank you!
Bigguy 1 year, 2 months ago
Keep up the good work Jim!
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
Thank you both. It means a lot.
AFCHIEF 1 year, 2 months ago
MR Levy doesn't owe Ms Fluke squat. Liberals need to get over themselves with their acting innocence like they do no wrong. When Bill Maher and Bill Letterman, etc degrade the Repubs thats OK.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
afchief, please explain why Ms Fluke deserved to be called a prostitute. Be specific.
And then you can explain the new bumper sticker that reads 'Don't Re-Nig in 2012.'
nothingspecial 1 year, 2 months ago
Mr. Heim this is a topic it is not smart for your side to continue to hammer about. Especially after it has become pretty plain that the topic itself (and the diversionary political strategy behind it) are hurting not helping the president's campaign. And by the way sponsors are now flocking to Rush as well.
As you said, the words by Rush were nothing new. It is also nothing new that liberals like the ones that brought out Ms. Fluke use the heartwrenching exception - in this case women with medical conditions that warrant prescribed use of the pill - to further a dishonest political aim of discrediting the church and bolstering Obama Care. When we all know birth control is as available and affordable as bottled water.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Well said, Jim. Keep up the good work. How long do you think it will be before the Zombie Lie that "she's asking us to pay for her choice to have sex" rises again?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
It's hilarious that the Republicans (who continue to lose ground with female voters) are once again pulling out their same old tired and childish retort: "No YOU are!!!!" "It's OBAMA waging war on women!"
Women know better.
NS is wheezing out the last gasps of a dying, not to mention intellectually and morally bankrupt ideology.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/mary-kate-cary/2012/03/12/the-republican-party-must-win-back-women-voters
The GOP is hemorrhaging the women's vote: a New York Times/CBS poll taken in mid-February showed that women now approve of the job President Obama is doing by a margin of 53 to 38 percent; in January, it was 48 to 46 percent. A Wall Street Journal/ NBC News poll this month shows that the president has opened an 18 point lead among women over former Gov. Mitt Romney. Unless the Republican leadership steps forward to turn things around quickly, it's going to get a whole lot worse. By "quickly," I mean now. This week.
--former George HW Bush speechwriter Mary Cate Cary.
Please, keep defending Rush. Please keep pretending what he said was okay because a third string comedian said bad things about Sarah Palin. Please.
AFCHIEF 1 year, 2 months ago
Heim. First off I don't listen to Rush and personally don't like him. when you can explain all the crap thrown at Repub woman than we can chat about this uproar over Rush Typical liberal double standards.
By the way, it sure was smooth how the Libs changed the discussion about Obama trying to force the Catholic religion to break there faith by forcing birth control measures.
But as an Independent I don't care about this non-issue. I'm more worried about Obamanations new budget that is going to add over a $1trillion to the debt next year and how is great Obamacare is going to cost at LEAST DOUBLE of what was estimated.
nothingspecial 1 year, 2 months ago
Nice try at surgically inserted propaganda, DR bringing out an article that cites February polls and conveniently leaves out the March polls that strangely provide the opposite opinion. One question from the article you include above - if the President is doing so well with women according to the Feb 12 NYT poll, then why the new mass letter campaign to women mentioned? Could it be again, that something is missing from the commentary? :-)
If you want us to continue this argument (that you and Jim in fact are continuing) then I am humbly at your service.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
DR bringing out an article that cites February polls and conveniently leaves out the March polls that strangely provide the opposite opinion.
You mean like this one?
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-14/republicans-losing-on-birth-control-as-77-percent-in-poll-spurn-debate
More than six in 10 respondents to a Bloomberg National Poll -- including almost 70 percent of women -- say the issue involves health care and access to birth control, according to the survey taken March 8-11. That conflicts with Republican presidential candidates Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney, who say Obama is violating religious freedom by requiring employers -- including those with religious objections to birth control -- to provide a way for women to obtain contraceptive coverage as part of their insurance plans. The results suggest the Republican candidates’ focus on contraception is out of sync with the U.S. public. Seventy-seven percent of poll respondents say birth control shouldn’t be a topic of the political debate, while 20 percent say it should.
Forty-nine percent of women say they would choose Obama over Romney, the front-runner in delegates in the Republican primary, compared with 45 percent who say they’d pick the former Massachusetts governor. In 2008, Obama won 56 percent of the women’s vote to 43 percent for the Republican nominee, Senator John McCain of Arizona, according to national exit polls. Obama Against Santorum Obama’s advantage among women is more pronounced over Santorum, a Roman Catholic who says he is personally opposed to contraception and has made such social issues a hallmark of his campaign. Women also back Obama over the former Pennsylvania senator 51 percent to 42 percent, while voters overall choose the president by a narrower six-point margin.
And it's just beginning .
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Or how about:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/153194/Obama-Job-Approval-Rating-Reaches-Weekend.aspx
PRINCETON, NJ -- President Barack Obama's job approval rating rose to 49% in the three-day period from Friday through Sunday, building on an upward trend that began the middle of last week. Obama's current approval rating is the highest measured since early February, and before that the highest since June 2011.
nothingspecial 1 year, 2 months ago
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/washington-post-poll-contradicts-washington-post-narrative-women-voters_633469.html
http://townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/2012/03/13/thanks_president_obama_but_i_need_more
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/13/psst-obama-lost-the-birth-control-mandate-debate/
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vRyJ9rRDnsUJ:online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
I actually think a commentary by Suzanne Fields points out the bigger issue:
"What's being ignored in the controversy over government-mandated contraceptive coverage is the way men have abandoned their responsibility to share responsibility for birth control. There's no one in the debate to say this."
And: "...It's a little cheeky of feminists to mount high horses to object to the rudeness of being called "sluts," it seems to me, since they've organized "Slut Walks" to assert their right to dress like hookers without suffering the leers of men. The idea was to deprive the word of its sting, in the way that gays have tried to deprive the word "queer" of its power to wound. It hasn't quite worked. The dissembling of Sandra Fluke, who brought Rush Limbaugh low, is easy to see through, too; she knows very well that college-educated women do not depend on government mandates to pay for their birth control. Women are no longer the second sex."
http://townhall.com/columnists/suzannefields/2012/03/16/creators_oped/page/2
So sorry, gotta go, I have a date with my beautiful girl and much better things to do on a Saturday night
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
I agree with DR...JimHeim, keep up the good work. Please write more. I also agree with DR's Zombie Lie stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWpU8s.... Thanks for sharing!
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
Does anyone else miss this show as much as I do? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-XrZ.... If only we had listened.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
afchief, I assume you are saying that long as Republicans say mean things about Democrats, we are free to respond in kind.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
afchief, here on Planet Reality, ACA is actually saving more than projected. And Romney (the inevitable Republican nominee) is putting forth a budget that would add $3 trillion to Obama's numbers. Which do you prefer?
The fact is that the budget will be very close to balanced when the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire. That's what got us here in the first place.
I don't care how high the deficit goes as long as it leads to a rekindling of our economy and the return of fourteen million jobs.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
Thatcher, yeah I miss Mod Squad. I always thought that Pete and Linc were made for each other...
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim-- You watched that show? No way! Then you must miss the groovy threads of this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyooAL.... They should make more shows like this. Enjoy!
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIJ0xv.... I'm being serious, JimHeim...you, DR, and MC7 should consider teaming up like this. You know, fighting injustice. You guys would be great! Give it some thought.
Toyboy52 1 year, 2 months ago
Georgetown is a Catholic institution that ought to be able to offer its students the insurance it wants. If Ms. Fluke wants contraceptive coverage, let her go to a nonreligious school or one that upgrade such. Government does not have the right to order a church to committ sin. It can order its state run schools to do such. But Ms. Fluke should not expect to be a student at a private school and then tell the school what it must do.
madstork 1 year, 2 months ago
Congrats to all which did not bite on the JimHeim racebait. 6 posts in the moron states "And then you can explain the new bumper sticker that reads 'Don't Re-Nig in 2012.'
I am sure the party is proud of such tripe from Heim. The child is on every blog from his man cave.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"No woman should be subjected to such a withering display of disrespect for simply expressing her opinion"
unless she is Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, etc. Rush was wrong for saying what he said, period. Doesn't change the fact that the left is full of pompous hipocrites on this issue.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"The fact is that the budget will be very close to balanced when the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire"
"I don't care how high the deficit goes as long as it leads to a rekindling of our economy and the return of fourteen million jobs."
Please vote between these two, which is more ridiculous?
skylinefirepest 1 year, 2 months ago
Ahhh, aren't we liberal demos so full of ourselves?? We've now changed the conversation in order to try to make Ms. Fluke a victim and Obama a hero. Unfortunately the dems killed themselves by hollering big time about Rush ( who apologized ). You don't think the public is aware of your total silence on the comments of Maher and MSNBC??? Your hypocrasy stinks and all the world knows it!
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
toyboy, please point out the passage in the Bible that labels purchasing health insurance a sin. Bear in mind that no one is forcing anyone to use contraception. The essence of 'free will' (isn't that a Biblical concept?) is that we each choose whether to follow church teachings or not. 98% of Catholic women choose not to do so.
You might also let me know why the Church waited until 1930 to discover this important issue.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim-- "Bear in mind that no one is forcing anyone to use contraception." Correct. And no one is attempting to force anyone not to use contraception, either. If someone wants it, they can pay for it. I don't force you to use your cell phone, or not to. If you want a cell phone, good for you! Pay for it. Same with birth control or anything else. There is nothing difficult about this issue.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
Why is the government involved in this at all?
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
Thatcher - Where does it stop? Shall we limit insurance for the overweight and deny coverage for 'lifestyle' ailments; diabetes, heart problems? Should we exclude coverage for those who fail to exercise? How about users of alcohol? Consumers of red meat? Where do we draw the line on health care exclusions.
Since the availability of contraceptives benefit 99% of women (and thus, 99% of men) at some point in their lives, why would we want to limit its availability?
Our economy is now wedded to women in the workplace. We could not prosper without them. When you consider the billions of dollars in health care savings and the trillion of dollars of economic activity that result from working women, what benefit do you see in limiting their reproductive choices?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Thatcher - Where does it stop? Shall we limit insurance for the overweight and deny coverage for 'lifestyle' ailments; diabetes, heart problems? Should we exclude coverage for those who fail to exercise? How about users of alcohol? Consumers of red meat? Where do we draw the line on health care exclusions.
Ironically, one of the right's favorite paranoid fantasies involves the government doing just this. Geoff Cutler trotted out it out just a couple of days ago. I guess it's okay if a big insurance company does it...and if it isn't okay with the right, isn't their approval of excluding birth control discriminatory against women?
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"Where do we draw the line on health care exclusions."
I'd like to draw the line on phony premises. No one is denying birth control to anyone as noted above by Thatcher. Why is the government involved in this?
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
I always thought of insurance as protection against costly, unforseen events. Isn't that the basic idea of insurance?
bufordsplay 1 year, 2 months ago
Mr. Heim, no one is limiting a womans access to birth control. Your argument, as usual, is infantile. How many people go hungry because insurance companies don't cover food?
bufordsplay 1 year, 2 months ago
No one has a "RIGHT" to something that involves violating the rights of someone else!
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
"This whole sham that conservatives are indulging in--that this is all about loose women having sex on someone else's dime--reminds me of a saying I read a few weeks ago: 'A conservative cannot enjoy a steak unless he knows that somewhere, somehow, someone else cannot have steak.'" DR
When you come up with nutty stuff like this, you leave the rest of us a lot of leg room before we can be called looney or paranoid. And if you don't understand what's involved when a government becomes responsible for your health, and how associated costs will require them to limit healthcare for certain segments of the population in order to keep those costs even close to what they can pay for, then you'll just have to wait to see the truth when it stares you in the face. Even then, you probably won't admit to it.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"When you come up with nutty stuff like this, you leave the rest of us a lot of leg room before we can be called looney or paranoid."
Seriously, some of his rants and ramblings about the mental state of conservatives makes me wonder "whats in his medicine cabinet"
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
You seem to have the right to insist that I pay taxes to pay for capital punishment when it offends my conscience. Is there a difference?
The government does indeed have right (and the authority) to require birth control coverage in health insurance plans. Certain religious authoritarians are trying to undo it, and it's up to the rest of to make sure the government doesn't cave.
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
Jim...???
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
And to think, they call us wing "nuts".
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
You said a mouthful there, Fugitve. Wow! And then he edits to qualify. Too late, Jim, and I don't where you get that government has any of those rights of authority, unless it's that mysterious Constitution you have that no-one else seems to have a copy of.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
I take it that neither of you had a response to my points.
Let me make another: It offends me to have to pay for fire and police protection of local churches. Why should that fall to me? Aren't the members of those churches willing to foot the bills themselves? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Where did the government get the right to take my money for such a purpose?
And because of limitations with this website's commenting system, I frequently find the need to edit words not visible until published to the web page.
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
Aww..Jim...now you're just having fun with us. Did you ever hear that it's foolish to argue against things that aren't true to begin with? No logic in it.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
I think MC7 had better step up her game, all of a sudden she is not alone at the top.
nothingspecial 1 year, 2 months ago
Oh Lord, Jim don't start with that argument. Lord Jim:-) Let's keep taking it your direction and make it right for every American to have health care, for every American to make at least $35k a year, to own a house, a cell phone and two cars. Only let's not call it socialist, let's change that definition in the dictionary too. We're only asking you Jim, where it is going to end? Obama Care has now come out as twice as expensive as originally planned. Birth control costs less per month than Netflix. Where shall we end things, Jim?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Seriously, some of his rants and ramblings about the mental state of conservatives makes me wonder "whats in his medicine cabinet"
Go back and review some of the posts from some of the conservatives here, and tell me they're indicative of a healthy mind.
AFCHIEF 1 year, 2 months ago
POT CALLING CALLING BLACK
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
Jim, your comments are beginning to make me curious. What do you believe when it comes to private property rights, stuff like that? I mean, do you think government should collect all income and redistribute that wealth evenly across socio-economic lines? How big and powerful should the state be? Do you see any areas where its power should be limited or checked, or should government pretty much decide from here on in what our rights are, and who has the right to them?
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
Great post Geoff. Hopefully, JimHeim will respond. And when he does, can I ask: JimHeim, now that the CBO has said that Obamacare will cost TWICE what Obama said it would (http://news.investors.com/article/604400/201203141851/cbo-obamacare-cost-double-obama-vow.htm), how will this affect Ms. Fluke's ability to pay $9 a month for birth control? We need to know this now, so as not to disrupt her European vacation. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/poor-sandra-fluke-she-wants-you-to-pay-for-her-9month-birth-control-as-she-frolics-in-spain-pompeii/. I want her to go on vacations...every American has the right to do so (and it is none of our business). But JimHeim, what about her birth control not being free? What is the answer?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
POT CALLING CALLING BLACK
Well, THAT certainly didn't make you look like a crazy person.
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
"... everyone was guaranteed a job, everyone had, therefore, a means of sustenance, there were no homeless, all people enjoyed equal opportunity through free education at all levels, from preschool to graduate studies; all medical care was offered free of charge, everyone was guaranteed retirement pension, all working people had paid vacations."
Does that sound about right to you, Jim?
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
Geoff, you left out free birth control. Stop doing that.
bufordsplay 1 year, 2 months ago
It is interesting to see those who often throw around words like "Crazy" and "Loonie" showing so much support for a President who idolized a man who believes White people were invented six thousand years ago by a mad scientist named yacub in a failed experiment to dilute the blood of the original human beings, who were Black. The result of the experiment was a morally tainted strain of Humans called "White Devils" who went on to devastate the world and abuse all human beings. But I guess we are all crazy racists for not wanting this man in ANY postion of power.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Considering you're about to throw your unqualified support behind a man who wears special magical religious underwear, believes that Jesus came to visit the Indians, believes that the Throne of God adjoins a planet called Kolob, and believes you can baptize people long dead, including Jewish Holocaust victims, into his church, you might want to think twice before throwing stones at the President for what one of his friends believes.
bufordsplay 1 year, 2 months ago
I don't agree with those beliefs but at least he is honest about them. By the way in Obama's book he said the highlight of his life was hearing Farrakhan speak. Some of us know who Obama is despite his every effort to disquise it. With his views of this country and of our history he has no buisness near the White House. He and his wife should be thankfull every day for the opportunities that this nation has given them but instead they despise it. He has no buisness in the Presidency.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
The are many videos out there showing the mainstream media grilling then candidate Obama on his past. His life is an open book.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
. By the way in Obama's book he said the highlight of his life was hearing Farrakhan speak.
Really? Can you show me where? Because I have both "Dreams from My Father" and "The Audacity of Hope" in e-book form, I just searched both of them, and I can't find this. Can you show me where it is?
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- Interesting point on Mormonism. Have you ever compared it to Black Liberation Theology, taught by the good Rev. Jeremiah Wright? You know, the preacher Obama never heard for two decades? Please tell us the core beliefs of Black Liberation Theology (yes, with links). Then we can have an open discussion here about what Obama believes. (Of course, no one here would post Rev. Wright's actual sermons...we don't believe in hate.).
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- Let me help you get started on Black Liberation Theology: http://www.trinitychicago.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114. From Obama's church's website. Do you agree with this?
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
Having now attacked Mormonism, I'm sure DR will be equally challenged to attack other Christian faiths, like Obama's. Have at it DR.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
So, Thatcher, can YOU show me where in Obama's book he said the highlight of his life was hearing Farrakhan speak?
So let's look at your link on Black Liberation Theology:
Commitment to God, " contribution of strength and continuity of the Black Community," "The Black family circle must generate strength, stability and love," the pursuit of education, the pursuit of excellence, the work ethic "High productivity must be a goal of the Black workforce,"....commitment to self discipline and self respect....wow, sounds really awful. I don't see how anyone could ever get behind any of that.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
Good try DR. I never said anything about Obama's book, or Farrakhan. You know that. And your selective quotes are hilarious. Let me post the link to Obama's church again: http://www.trinitychicago.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114. Let's do it this way: is there anything that they believe in that you dispute? If so, tell us. If not, then I'll post their own quotes one by one and ask you about them. Fair?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Oh, I know you didn't, Thatcher. I know you were just trying to change the subject. So you can't provide the Farrakhan quote any more than bufords can? Because I'm sure he'd appreciate your help.
As for the link you posted...nope, can't find a whole lot to disagree with...but that's partially because there are some things that, as a white person, I don't have standing to disagree with. Is it that you have a problem with the idea of black people having solidarity with and supporting other black people? I tell you, neither you nor I have the moral standing to tell them not to do that, because you and I haven't been through what black people in this country have gone through and are still going through. Solidarity equals survival for the black community and has for years.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Having now attacked Mormonism,
I guess bufords can attack peoples beliefs with impunity, then, and not get called on the hypocrisy of that.
As always, IOKIYAR!
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- Just google the founder James Cone (who established this religion in the 1960s). Jesus was black? http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2315I; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ha.... I thought he was Jewish. My pastor has alot of explaining to do.
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
You seem to have come off the cuff pretty quick against Romney's faith. You got any witticisms you'd like to share with us about Islam, since you seem to be getting such jollies running rough-shod over Mormonism? No, I expect not.
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
No answers, Jim? Not surprising....
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that DR will come up with a rationale that gives the okey doke to pretty much anything young Obama did or anyone he associated with.
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
No way...you think? The fact that he's gotten a pass since he's been president is even more unbelievable.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Bufords already mocked Nation of Islam doctrine, which Obama doesn't even subscribe to..how come you don't have a problem with that? And this alleged "Black Liberation Theology"...that's open to attack as well. Hmmmm...what do these beliefs have in common that separates them from Romney's. I wonder, I wonder...
BTW I really look forward to the point when the fundamentalists who attack Obama's faith (or what they claim it is) find themselves defending Romney's. Heads will be exploding like popcorn.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- Your nonsense about "as a white person, I don't have standing to disagree with" it, is quite frankly, ridiculous. As a white person, you certainly felt you had "standing" to attack Mormons. Black, White, Asian, etc., we all have standing to call BS when we see it. Including the 75% of Black Christians who reject Black Liberation Theology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ch... ("approximately one-quarter of African-American churches followed a liberation theology"). Religion apparently is not your strong suit.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
So when's somebody going to come up with the actual cite where Obama's book says that hearing Farrakhan speak was the highlight of his life? Hmmmmm?
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
If any Republican elected official had spent a single Sunday listening to a similarly profane and offensive preacher the left would lose their frikkin mind demanding this, demanding that which would be largley irrelevant because conservatives have a habit of flushing their own waste.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
And DR, it is not "alleged" Black Liberation Theology. It is Black Liberation Theology, invented in the '60s.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Religion apparently is not your strong suit.
You still haven't explained why it's okay for you to mock and deride Black Liberation Theology.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
DR's not a women but he sure feels he has the standing to berate and demean conservative women like Palin and Bachman.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
because conservatives have a habit of electing their own waste.
Here, I fixed that for you.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Not for being a woman, fg. Boy, do you people love playing the victim.
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
Dusty, I think Buford's thing about Obama's church was that the good Reverend Wright said something about "God damn America." Could that be it?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
If any Republican elected official had spent a single Sunday listening to a similarly profane and offensive preacher the left would lose their frikkin mind
Actually, I've heard several preachers, including Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, talk, as Wright did, about how God was punishing America for its sins. Most notably a couple of days after 9/11.
What was different about Falwell and Robertson that sets them apart from Wright...I wonder, I wonder...
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
You are quick on the draw DR. Misguided and wrong but you are quick on the draw.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"Boy, do you people love playing the victim."
As opposed to the left who busy themselves trying to convince various groups that they are victims.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
If you're spending a thousand dollars a year for Netflix, you're doing it wrong.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Dusty, I think Buford's thing about Obama's church was that the good Reverend Wright said something about "God damn America." Could that be it?
Nope, not what Buford was talking about at all. Try again.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- "So when's somebody going to come up with the actual cite where Obama's book says that hearing Farrakhan speak was the highlight of his life? Hmmmmm?" (Only bufordsplay said this...no one else). Probably about the same time you crawl away from your Mormonism comments and your defense of Black Liberation Theology.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"Actually, I've heard several preachers, including Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, talk, as Wright did, about how God was punishing America for its sins. Most notably a couple of days after 9/11."
Please tell us what Republican president sat in on either's Sunday services
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
So Thatcher, you admit there's no such quote?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Please tell us what Republican president sat in on either's Sunday services
Will a candidate I'm sure you voted for do?
http://thepilot.com/users/photos/2012/mar/18/16500/
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
And DR, I haven't "mocked" or "derided" Black Liberation Theology. I asked you if you disagreed with any of their beliefs (since you started by mocking Mormon beliefs). Tonight? Not your best night.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Several photos of Falwell with Bush the Elder:
http://imagecollect.com/celebrities/jerry-falwell-pictures-33017/page-3
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
So Thatcher, what do YOU disagree with about Black liberation theology? Other than "Black," I mean.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Another one for fugitiveguy:
http://thepilot.com/users/photos/2012/mar/18/16501/
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
Selected Reverend Wright.
– April 2003: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes three-strike laws and wants them to sing God Bless America. No! No No! God damn America … for killing innocent people. God damn America for threatening citizens as less than humans. God damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme.”
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
September 13, 2001 telecast of the 700 Club
JERRY FALWELL: And I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters -- the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats -- what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact -- if, in fact -- God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
PAT ROBERTSON: Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.
JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.
PAT ROBERTSON: Well yes.
JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."
http://thepilot.com/users/photos/2012/mar/18/16500/
http://thepilot.com/users/photos/2012/mar/18/16501/
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- "So Thatcher, you admit there's no such quote?" GOOD LORD, man! I never said there was any such quote! (It was bufordsplay...ask him!). And if you want me to research it, I will. You have no answer for any of my questions, so you appear to be deflecting attention away from my questions, your comments, and the fact that you stepped in it for disparaging Mormonism (without knowing anything about it). Again, nice try, DR.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Actually, Thatcher, I'm doing quite well, and it's you ducking the question: what's your problem with Back Liberation Theology, and why is it okay for you and Bufords to slam Wright and Farrakhan?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Once again...you're holding black politicians and ministers to a standard you won't hold white ones to.
That's why I call you racist.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Boy, fugitiveguy got quiet all of a sudden, didn't he? All I did was give him what he asked for...
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
I asked you which Republican president sat in on eithers sermon. You have not delivered. I stand by my the premise, 20 years Obama attended his racist church and thats no problem for you and the like minded. Total hippocrite!
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR (6 min. ago)-- "What do you disagree with about Black Liberation theology? Other than "Black" I mean?" Your post is disgusting. Your are inferring that I am a racist, when I've posted links that this theology (from the 60s) is based upon socialism and is rejected by 75% of my Black Christian brothers and sisters. No, I'm not playing the "victim," as you like to claim. But you sure are playing the race card when you have nothing else to say in defense of your argument. You should be ashamed of yourself.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
McCain standing in robes onstage with Falwell, and all you can say is: well he's not in the audience. Lame, fg. Utterly lame.
How about Pastor Ed Kalnins, fg? Ever hear of him? The witch-hunting pastor of Sarah Palin's church who preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted into heaven; and preached that the Sept. 11 attacks and the war in Iraq were part of a world war over Christianity? Any problem with him?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Thatcher...yawn. You quack like a duck, you walk like a duck, you swim like a duck. It's not disgusting to call you a duck.
geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago
Dusty, all you've done is saturate the thread with drivel.
Jim, I'll assume you're perfectly comfortable with the scenarios I outlined for you.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"Not for being a woman, fg. Boy, do you people love playing the victim."
Weak, even for you.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"Your are inferring that I am a racist"
Don't take it personal, thatcher. If you don't lean libby and you don't worship Obama or don't agree with any of the lefts other wacky positions you are a racist, mentally ill, homophobe, moron...you get the picture. Just consider the source. What can I say, its the inclusive and tolerant left.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
You seem to have a problem answering a simple question, DR. Its ok. In your head you are "winning"
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
Thats funny, but predictable. I seemed to have missed the Palin presidency. I know you couldn't help but bring her up. Next post I guess you'll get Fox News.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- "Quacks like a duck..." etc. So you think I'm a racist. OK. I am at somewhat of a disadvantage since I don't do the name calling stuff like you do. I suspect my wife, kids, friends, and church family (all of whom know me far better than you), would think you are incorrect. And again, no playing the victim like you always contend. Your posts are disgusting, sir.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
It's not name calling (your favorite whine), it's definition of character. You don't want to be called racist, quit acting like one by holding an African American to a standard you refuse to hold a white person to. And that goes for all of you.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- What would you know about someone's character? Especially mine, since you don't even know me? I disagree with you and you call me a racist. Your posts remain what they always were: disgusting. And I don't "whine," "cry," "moan," or any other of the names you like to use when you call people names and are upset with their responses. You called me a racist. You are mistaken. (Yes, I am trying to be polite.).
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
Dusty, You're doing great. In my early days in radio one of the stations I worked at carried those religious cranks for the cash. Falwell and a bunch of lesser lights who ranted against civil rights and quoted scripture to prove their points. The programs came on over sized vinyl disks and I'm sorry didn't save them so i could quote them today.
But it was just too much fun to take them to the mountain top field where our towers were and see how far we could make them fly.
Unlike the right-wing theologians, I'm not willing to accept the blame for 9/11 or tornadoes or hurricanes or the occasional stubbed toe. If those guys are right, God has terrible aim and keeps hitting the innocent while letting the sinners escape unharmed.
I'm not sure I see the advantage of white supremacist theology over black liberation theology.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim-- Once again, you have disappointed no one.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
Any of you nice conservatives are welcome to show me the economic powerhouse that doesn't have a progressive income tax and decent medical care for its citizens. I'm, all ears.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
I disagree with you and you call me a racist.
I don't call you a racist because you disagree with me. I call you a racist because---and I've said this multiple times---you hold African American politicians and clerics to a standard you refuse to hold white ones to, as has been conclusively shown here. Shall I explain it again? I. call you a racist because you hold African American politicians and clerics to a standard you refuse to hold white ones to. I call you a racist because you hold African American politicians and clerics to a standard you refuse to hold white ones to. I call you a racist because you hold African American politicians and clerics to a standard you refuse to hold white ones to.
Is that enough repetitions to get the message through to you? Or are you going to keep consoling yourself with this "you're just saying that because I disagree with you!" You do whatever you need to do to maintain your illusions about yourself, Thatcher, but don't expect the rest of us to share them.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
Any of you nice conservatives are welcome to show me the economic powerhouse that doesn't have a progressive income tax and decent medical care for its citizens. I'm, all ears.
Right wingers often claim we're trying to make American more like Europe. Well, I find that preferable to what they're trying to do with all their talk of government being evil: make it more like Somalia.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim-- "The programs came on over sized vinyl disks and I'm sorry (sic) didn't save them so I could quote them today." That is truly a shame. The kids on the Pinecrest High baseball team will never have the honor of being regaled with such honest tales of Christian perversion. If you had only saved those tapes. Dang.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
DR-- I don't have "illusions" about myself, and I certainly do nothing here to maintain any "illusions." What is becoming clear to me is that the only "illusions" here are held by you. You have the "illusion" that since you went to law school, you are smarter than anyone here. Your "illusion" is burst everytime someone here posts something that shows you are really not any smarter than they are. Instead, you are simply just more mean and adept at disgusting comments. Then claims of "racism," etc. Your "illusion" stuff could be a form of projection. But heck, what do I know. I'm a dumb racist.
greentara13 1 year, 2 months ago
Rush is a known sexual predator and drug addict outside the US. He is a hideous monster. Why the US covers this up is ridiculous!
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
greentara13-- I agree with you. "Why the US covers this up is ridiculous!" Obama, get real! And get Rush!