Middle Class, Poor Aren't the Problem
- Print print this page
- Discuss 49 comments, Blog about
Advertisement
I just read Richard Wilson’s letter, “Tax Structure Needs To Change — Now” (March 11), stating, “It has just been announced on nationwide news that 49.5 percent of Americans do not pay any federal income tax.”
What he doesn’t say is that these Americans are mostly low-income working families with children, and the elderly; and that this is just federal income tax. These families still pay a considerable amount in other federal taxes, including payroll taxes, to fund Medicare and Social Security, excise taxes on gasoline and other items.
When you consider all federal, state and local taxes, the bottom fifth of households paid on average 16 percent of their income in taxes in 2010, while the second-poorest fifth paid 20.5 percent. Although the total effective tax rate does rise for higher earners, the top fifth, and even the top 1 percent, of all earners pay only 31 percent.
I’ve never seen it stated much better than the following quote from an unnamed source: “These people are not on welfare, they aren’t receiving government ‘largesse’ — they work 40 and often more hours per week and cannot make enough money to actually qualify for paying income taxes. Progressive income tax is not a ‘compassionate’ form of taxation — it recognizes that those who get more income are profiting from more than just their own labor and benefiting far more from the infrastructure and education system than the person who makes less.”
The middle class and poor are not the problem in this country.
Lynn Stephens
Carthage
More like this story
Advertisement
Comments
OBXNC 1 year, 2 months ago
If you earn wages and pay taxes, and then file at years end and get it all back, you paid no income tax. No one can argue that all people that consume pay some sort of taxes. Many poor get tax breaks, just like some of the rich do. The whole problem is a failed tax code for income earners. The taxes on consumers, and services offered is as fair accross the board as you can get. The reason why you work is to make a dollar, and keep all of it you can, until you decide how to spend it, not until someone else takes it, or tells you how to spend it.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
We Democrats do not regard as fair a tax system that in every single state requires the middle-class and poor to pony up more of their income in taxes than the wealthy.
Here in North Carolina the poor pay three times as much of their incomes on taxes than the rich. Time for a change.
Guy_Forks 1 year, 2 months ago
If we make the assumption fairness is a measure of equal determent or benefit, why is charging those who earn more income a higher rate more fair?
Is it fair that the top 20% of earners pay 68% of the total taxes collected by the federal government yet make less than a third of the total income reported?
Is it fair that certain people gain advancement, employment, and government contracts based on race?
Is it fair that a college educated single woman making $60k a year has less disposable income than a single mom with no High school diploma, working part time making $15K/y?
Is it fair that companies like GE and Halliburton can use their political connections to suppress competition, and avoid taxes?
Is it fair that a "poor" mom in Reaford has to pay for a school lunch because the lunch she sent with her child (turkey sandwich, bag of lays, and an apple) isn't nutritious according to government standards?
Is it fair that government would attack companies that use "pink slime" as unhealthy/unethical, then buy 60 tons to feed to our kids in public schools?
Is it fair that government used it's power, or more specifically, President Obama, and Hon. AG Eric "my people" Holder, to circumvent due process, hold a secret trial who's officers included unelected bureaucrats, and kill American citizens along with their Children?
Is it fair for government to mandate that you enter into a contract with a private company ageist your will?
Is it fair for congress to prohibit stock trading biased on non-public information, whilst they write laws to benefit companies that they own stock in?
Is it fair that a woman can talk at work about their sexual exploits, lives, or encounters (married or not), but for a man it is a crime?
This whole concept of fairness is asinine. There is not one example in nature of this fairness. Life is inherently unfair. Something my Mamma used to say, and your mother might have as well: "Life isn't fair! So quit your whining before I pop you in the mouth again!"
I don't ask for my life to be fair. I am an American. I DEMAND that my life be FREE.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
Taxation isn't about fairness; it's about securing a vibrant economy that promotes a stable nation. The rich have much more to lose, so we fund a near-trillion dollar a year military to protect them. We build a network of highways and airways (at no small expense) to get their goods to market. The rich are the primary beneficiaries of our tax system and should cough up to pay for it.
A properly planned progressive tax system works to the advantage of the entire country and is a significant reason we rose to the top in the world. The Republican-led destruction of that system has led to stagnant wages and will soon move us out of the top tier of nations. We will likely not recover our number one position...ever.
Most of GF's points are silly.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"It has just been announced on nationwide news that 49.5 percent of Americans do not pay any federal income tax.”
Thats funny, it seems to say "do not pay any Federal income tax", vague as it is, its right there.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"it recognizes that those who get more income are profiting from more than just their own labor and benefiting far more from the infrastructure and education system"
should read "earn" more income, why is that such a hard word for some?
"benefiting far more from the infrastructure and education system"
I don't see how that last sentence can be possible, someone splain it to me
Guy_Forks 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim 3 hours, 51 minutes ago
We Democrats do not regard as fair a tax system that in every single state requires the middle-class and poor to pony up more of their income in taxes than the wealthy.
JimHeim 19 minutes ago
Taxation isn't about fairness;
Come Sir, let us be consistent in our views. You're worse than Mr. Chu on gas prices! (did I spell is name right? I don't want to be called a racist!)
Government builds roads to move goods yes, but the interstate system was not built for moving goods, but tanks. Look it up. The state roads are for the benefit of the state, and used to be funded by it too.
The education system was not built for rich people to receive free training for labor. It was built to help individuals improve themselves, and to teach the basic literacy necessary to be free. Ignorant people are incapable of practicing freedom. They give in to their emotions of injustice, jealousy, bigotry, and self interest which produces concepts like affirmative action and equality of things.
Government did not build airways. They can't create air, but they can and should regulate gravity defining flight though it. (just have to rib you a bit, lol)
Jim I will admit that the points are silly, in fact they are absurd! Alas, all are real life factual consequences to current government policy.
Also, I'll go on record that I agree your true point, less the demagoguery, that taxation is necessary to effect a stable nation. My issue has always been that government should never use taxation as a method of control of the individual, nor to its personal gain.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"so we fund a near-trillion dollar a year military to protect them"
I bet that is news to them
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
"Here in North Carolina the poor pay three times as much of their incomes on taxes than the rich. Time for a change."
How can people come here from foreign lands, not even speak the language, work hard, educate themselves, become a success, buy a home and or build a business but we have so many domestic poor people that if you believe the libs can barely wipe their backsides. I would be insulted if I were them. This is THE land of opportunity, wth else would everybody be trying to get here. Is public school "free". Can the poor go to community college for "free" or nearly free? Barring mental illness or severe physical impairment isn't it very possible to become unpoor with hard work and careful decision making.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
Nearly half of all Americans pay no income taxes. That isn't even disputed anymore. Is it fair, maybe it is. I don't care. I don't want to trade places with them. However, in light of this FACT the lefts and their leader continue to beat the drums about fair share while half pay nothing makes it hard for me to take them seriously about anything else. We do NOT have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem. The great leader has done nothing but make it worse. 10T + 5T =15T. However, Jim thinks that is a good thing. Another gem that makes it very hard for me to take him or anyone else who doesn't think increasing the debt by 1/2 in 3 years is cause for alarm. Last I heard we were accruing 1 billion dollars daily on that debt. I suppose that is also of no consequence.
Guy_Forks 1 year, 2 months ago
fugitiveguy in order to really know how much the Federal government spends in any given year, before the completion of that year, you have to have a budget. Thus, you can't possibly know what the government spends in a day. However, if we use last years number as a base line (fy2011) , and round it for easing my math limited brain, we can guess.
So let's use $2,000,000,000,000.
2,000,000,000,000 / 365 = $5,479,452,054.80
$5,479,452,054.80 * .43 (last good and factual number I know for the debt on the dollar spent) = 2,356,164,383.56
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
GF, If you think we spent all those billions to move tanks, you need to be watered twice a week. Yeah, they had to put the word defense into the title to get Republicans to vote for it, but there are nearly as many cars and trucks on it as tanks these days.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago
thank God Obama signed the bill that finally let all those retched poor people use the interstate highways. they had been kept off them with their Jed Clampett mobiles far, far too long.
Guy_Forks 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim 52 minutes ago
GF, If you think we spent all those billions to move tanks, you need to be watered twice a week. Yeah, they had to put the word defense into the title to get Republicans to vote for it, but there are nearly as many cars and trucks on it as tanks these days.
Now Jim I can't say I've lived it, but the the interstate highway system was proposed by Eisenhower a republican under the very real threat of soviet attack in the 1950's.
"One of Eisenhower's enduring achievements was championing and signing the bill that authorized the Interstate Highway System in 1956.[96] He justified the project through the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 as essential to American security during the Cold War. It was believed that large cities would be targets in a possible future war, and the highways were designed to evacuate them and allow the military to move in."
Dwight D. Eisenhower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Eisenhower needed republican votes....lol
OBXNC 1 year, 2 months ago
Just a question? If the poorest citizens are paying so much in taxes , why do the majority get all they paid in back, and in some cases more? The big question here is why do all people, poor, rich,and in the middle pay so much, and so many taxes in the first place? We always want to argue about who's paying how much, but not whats being done with what's being collected already!
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
GF - I have never seen a tank driving on an Interstate Highway. BTW - Do you see the word Defense anywhere in there?
Did you notice the author of the article you cited used the word 'justified.' There is a reason.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
OBXNC - Are you referring to the fact that Republican leaning states get more federal tax dollars than Democratic leaning states?
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim (3 hours, 34 min. ago)-- "The rich have more to lose, so we fund a near-trillion dollar a year military to protect them." Yet another keen insight. Quite frankly, I thought you would have exhausted such keen insights long ago. You stamina in this regard is amazing. Thanks for letting us know.
Guy_Forks 1 year, 2 months ago
Jim, back then they couldn't make drugs illegal because of the Constitution. Back then they respected that document, and that is the justification to which the author refers. Watch that old classic "reefer madness", in the beginning they talk about this very legal theory that was in force at the time.
Next you'll try to tell us that the democrats championed the 14th amendment over republican obstructionism.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
Guy_Forks, I'm still working on the defense highway thing. What a Republican boondoggle. It took 35 years to build, cost $425 billion (in today's dollars) and so far hasn't been used much for the defense of the country. As war projects go, this one doesn't seem very effective.
Typically Republican.
Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago
wdd - Pretty good research in finding out Heim's true colors and what he's been hiding.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
It's not hidden when you put on Facebook for all to see.
I stand behind every word, too!
wdd101st, those were Southern Democrats who were wrong about everything. They mostly defected to the Republican Party when Democrats adopted liberty as a cause. We do not miss them.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
How could this country build a defense highway system without coming to Ft Bragg?
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
wdd101st, the second Bush only served a small portion of his commitment and refused service in Vietnam. Eventually he deserted to campaign for relatives. I don't think that counts.
Guy_Forks 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
How could this country build a defense highway system without coming to Ft Bragg?
Jim I will no longer consider anything you publish as having any intellectual value. The interstate system does connect to Ft. Bragg. It's called I-95. Are you that dense or are you another Dusty? Here solely to antagonize with outrageous ideas, so we camp on the site and click ads?
I do so hope that it the case, but less that I offer this:
Winston Churchill said that a sure sign of a great man is his ability to simultaneously hold two opposing thoughts while weighing them with equal regard. What he said of people like you, incapable of holding a single thought free of emotion, can not be repeated here...
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
GF - Your definition of connecting is interesting indeed.
Guy_Forks 1 year, 2 months ago
Jim your use of logic is trite.
justmyopinion 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim- Since you get free healthcare, you really need to visit Dr Heim and get some new meds. Hope you feel better soon!
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
I get the best medical care in the world - the American military system. I'm feeling just fine thank you.
To wdd101st, I'd be happy to put all of those Facebook posts (and more) on a billboard in downtown Southern Pines if I could. And, as you may have noticed, my criticisms are entirely based on matters opinion and/or fact and not on sex or race (or political party for that matter). Who would want it any other way?
Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim - As head of the MooCo Dems, how can you say that your criticisms/opinions are not based on political party? Did you just recently state that Limbaugh is the head of the Rep party and that his opinions reflect their opinions?
AFCHIEF 1 year, 2 months ago
im_a_harleyman why are you "republicans" proud - no one from your party ever serves in the armed forces.
That statement is a bunch of pull. The military personnel in general have always leaned to vote republican. Thank god Reagan saved the military from the gut job that Carter did, just like Clinton and now Obamanation wants to gut the military to the bones
Guy_Forks 1 year, 2 months ago
The Democratic and Republicans in power and the media are the real racists. I can tell because when they talk about Americans and how they vote, the first statement is in regards to the voters color. Also, I only hear about race from those in the media and politicians.
As they say, "he who smelt it, dealt it!"
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
Courseaire, I am a Democrat but I do not blindly support everyone who claims to be one. It is my job to give voice to the core values of the party.
Rush Limbaugh is indeed the spiritual leader of the Republican Party as those who think they are in leadership positions learn when they cross him.
The party answers to me and not the other way around.
Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim - I've got some Real Estate in Florida (a bit swampy) for sale that you or anyone that believes you might be intersted in.
Thatcher 1 year, 2 months ago
JimHeim (4 hours, 27 min. ago)-- "Courseaire, I am a Democrat but I do not blindly support everyone who claims to be one." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OeZMC....
JER 1 year, 2 months ago
AFCHIEF: You say Obama wants to gut the military to the bones? That alone will make me find a way to vote for him as many times as possible. I'm going out today and start collecting a bunch of photo voter ID's. The sooner we get the troops out, the better. After 10 years, just another war we could not win. We are getting good at spending the most and getting little in return. I say we, but there is a small percentage that gets rich off of war, regardless if we win or loose. We spend the most on education, we spend the most on health care and we spend the most on the military. Our kids don't know the difference between they're, their and there; we have people dying because they do not have even the most basic of health insurance (I saw with my own eyes and heard with my on ears a decision made in a emergency room that resulted in a person on a gurney who was in very poor condition being wheeled out into a hall and left because he had no insurance. He was dead in less than one hour. 100% true story!!) And, of course, we have spent the lives of thousands of American citizens on wars that could not possibly be won. And we are fighting these wars with the most expensive weapons money can buy, with the most highly trained, hand selected troops money can buy. Perhaps it's time to admit we just are not good at this anymore.
AFCHIEF 1 year, 2 months ago
Harley, ok I missed spelled Bull, lack of sleep due to my trip to London. As far as Republicans who never fought in wars maybe you should do a background search on past presidents with military experience.
JER, as without a strong military defense of our country what would our country be, JUST ask France that question.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 2 months ago
So MEXICO is our standard now? Talk about a conservative race to the bottom.
JER you are right because that is the only way he will be re-elected, by stealing the election.
Still pre-positioning your excuses for losing, I see.Very far-sighted of you.
Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago
wdd - Mexico had to do this because of all the illegal North Americans living there.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
afchief - How is it possible that you don't know that the biggest cuts to the military since the cCold War were authored by Bush defense secretary, Richard Cheney? I'm pretty sure he was a Republican at the time.
FightFireWithFire 1 year, 2 months ago
AFCHIEF: "Harley, ok I missed spelled Bull, lack of sleep due to my trip to London. As far as Republicans who never fought in wars maybe you should do a background search on past presidents with military experience. JER, as without a strong military defense of our country what would our country be, JUST ask France that question."
Here ya go: http://2012.republican-candidates.org/Military.php
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
I enjoyed some of the comments on that site, especially the one about how all presidents should serve in the military since they will be in charge of it.
I think all prison wardens should have served time so they will have the right experience for the job.
bufordsplay 1 year, 2 months ago
The truth is the more you raise taxes the less revenue is collected. New york City's revenue has dropped 20% since they raised taxes in recent years. Obama knows this as well as he admitted during a democratic debate in 2008. He said that raising taxes was not about revenue it was about fairness. So we have a president that wants to take money from those who have erned it "FAIR" and square solely for the purpose of punishing them in order to make poor people feel better? Amazing! This communist clown and his hatefull wife has to go as well as the dumbest VP in our history!!
AFCHIEF 1 year, 2 months ago
HEIM, 2 things Clinton had the biggest recent cuts in the military. And who said you had to serve in the military to be president, I didn't. I was countering a point by Harly Boy who said Repubs never serve in the military.
JER 1 year, 2 months ago
AFCHIEF: I said nothing about having a strong military to defend OUR country. I am 100% in favor of having a strong military that defends OUR borders. What I am against is spending our treasury and our lives attempting to change other countries. This long held pile of B--- S--- that says we must fight them there so we don't have to fight them here has cost us dearly over the past 60 years. The situations today are not the situations that we faced in the World War II years. We could certainly cut the military budget " to the bone" and still have an adequate force to defend our country from a military attack from any foreign power. The threat to us today is from terrorism and we need a completely different mindset to address that threat. Hint: that mindset does not include posing for photos with a pile of naked prisoners, posing for photos while pissing on dead bodies, burning religious books held sacred by the folks you are trying to impress and mass killings of civilians.
AFCHIEF 1 year, 2 months ago
JER, so you finish your long tirade by pointing out a select FEW individuals who embarrassed our military and our country. Guess you can join Moonchild during the next anti-military protest.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
bufordsplay, 'The truth is the more you raise taxes the less revenue is collected.'
That is a stupid remark with no possible basis in reality. The taxes paid in New York City are not as simple as the minds that came up with the Laffer Curve.
You assume that the tax rate is the only variable, when in fact the turbulence in the banking industry makes a huge difference in NYC.
I expect that tax collection in NYC would have been even worse without the rate increase.
Until you're ready to show how - exactly - the tax rate affects collections, I regard your comment as ill-advised.
JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago
afchief - Read what I wrote again. If you look at the words very carefully, you might get a glimmering of understanding of what I said. I did not say that anyone had to serve in the military to be president.
AFCHIEF 1 year, 2 months ago
Heim not hard to misinterpret this "I enjoyed some of the comments on that site, especially the one about how all presidents should serve in the military since they will be in charge of it."
JER 1 year, 2 months ago
AFCHIEF: You choose to ignore the bulk of my comments and try to minimize the harm done by a "FEW individuals who embarrassed our military and our country." You and I have no idea how much harm those instances have done, but at least I am capable of understanding that the folks on the receiving end of those actions don't perceive them to be embarrassing incidents. I was watching a discussion today concerning the similarities between our current situation in Afghanistan and the waning days of Vietnam. The bottom line: expect to see more and more of these types of incidents the longer we stay there. I don't "hate" the military. I hate what the military is being used for. So hell yes, cut the military budget to the bone so we can't continue to do what we've been doing.