Commissioners Go Off the Deep End

As of Tuesday, March 13, 2012

The state DOT could decide to bulldoze hundreds of acres in Horse Country for a bypass. The energy industry wants to “drill, baby, drill” in our backyard. We’ve got budget issues and water issues and jail issues.

Yet Moore County Commissioners Nick Picerno and Larry Caddell are wasting their time and ours worrying about gay marriage?

In the first place, same-sex marriage is already against North Carolina law. But Amendment One is being pushed by opportunists from the ideological fringe who are eager to (1) make the matter a political issue in this red-hot election year, and (2) see to it that their wishes in this regard are written in constitutional concrete so they will prevail even into future decades, when attitudes on the issue will have moderated.

Conservative Causes

In Wake County, a Republican majority on the Board of Commissioners recently approved a resolution endorsing Amendment One. And now Picerno wants to see the same thing happen in Moore County at April’s board meeting. Interestingly, the rest of us might not have known that if Picerno hadn’t bragged about it in a Facebook response to another posting on the general subject.

(This comes on the heels of the board’s totally meaningless vote to oppose “Amendment 21,” which is supposedly a tool by the U.N. to condemn us all to a nightmarish collectivist future through environmental legislation or something. This is a bogus right-wing cause that the county also should steer clear of.)

Even if you accept that it is proper to inject religion into board deliberations, the next question is: Which religion, or lack thereof? We live in an increasingly pluralistic society that includes not only Christians of every kind, but also Jews and Muslims and Hindus and nonbelievers, who vote and have a right to expect that their local government will represent them without discrimination.

Straying From Their Knitting

Picerno and Caddell happen to be fundamentalist, evangelical Christians — which is fine. What’s not so fine is trying to impose those particular views on the rest of us. The Bible may specify that marriage is between a man and a woman, but it also specifies a great many other things that rational modern humans all ignore. How do we decide which of these dogmas local governments should wade into, especially in a society that is supposed to keep church and state apart?

For that matter, what if a Muslim should happen to get elected as a commissioner? How would his colleagues react if he started preaching that the state should invoke the tenet of his religion which holds that women should cover themselves from head to foot in burqas? Suppose a Jewish commissioner wanted to impose Hanukkah celebrations on the schools?

Surely such lofty subjects as marriage and U.N. resolutions are above the pay grade of county commissioners, who have enough to keep them busy worrying about tax rates, zoning, solid waste and fracking. Let them stick to their knitting.

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bdavis 1 year, 2 months ago

This editorial seems pretty judgmental and intolerant against those that support the idea that the institution of marriage is reserved for one man and one woman

i thought liberals were tolerant of the views of others! Not so here!

Also, instead of labeling Picerno and Caddell " fundamentalist evangelicals" ( whatever that means these days!) , why not let them speak for themselves.

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

bdavis, we liberals are pretty judgmental when it comes to attacks on liberty and freedom. Your side has yet to provide a constitutional basis for depriving a portion of our citizenry from a fundamental freedom - that of marrying a partner of their choosing.

It was not that long ago that marriage was between a white man and a white woman. We fought that one too, for the same reason. Bigotry is an ugly thing and it's every American's duty to eliminate it whenever it raises its head.

What liberal was it who said, "Moderation in the pursuit of liberty is no virtue?"

The problem is that Picerno and Caddell don't want to speak for themselves. They intend to speak for the entire county and all of us who live here. They do not speak for me!

I guess they're running out of stuff do.

cmptrepair 1 year, 2 months ago

Seems like commissioners Nick and Larry want to take the heat off of themselves about not letting some of the 68,000 residents of moore county vote on the big a$$ jail. anyone seen that monstrosity? since the Bible speaks of man to man relationships like don't sleep together, we are way past Hebrew law. If your car runs off in a ditch, don't get your A$$ out of the ditch on Sunday. no more pig pick'ns don't go to the hospital on Sunday. Christ got in trouble healing the sick on the Sabbath, Nick and Larry have become the representatives of everyone in moore county and they are always right. Vote for the democrat in november, I am.

native 1 year, 2 months ago

It is really time for these two to be replaced.

Arestorer 1 year, 2 months ago

Its past time!!!!! Or rather, "That time has past".

fugitiveguy 1 year, 2 months ago

"i thought liberals were tolerant of the views of others! "

Please limit your comments to "earth" liberals please.

Bflat 1 year, 2 months ago

It was TPo3 (Picerno, Caddell & Melton) that ramrodded through the federal sized JAIL project with their 3-2 vote. They went ahead with it even though there were many telling them not to. My guess is it never would have passed if referendum had been required. "That time is past" as far as these 3 commissioners that continue with their own personal agendas. Vote these 3 out. They are detrimental to Moore County and do not represent the wishes of its citizens. Oh yeah..ya da ya da about voting for them in past. A lot of people just mindlessly marked a straight ticket without knowing all the issues. Now that TPo3 monument is on McNeill St in downtown Carthage, there is no turning back.

clodfelter37 1 year, 2 months ago

Picerno and Caddell are right on it. Marriage is between one man and one woman. If those of the same sex want to get together let it be called something other than marriage.

rudy2donline 1 year, 2 months ago

It would be one thing if Nick Picerno were the only Republican partisan we had to deal with. I'm aghast at the tactic employed by the Republican majority in Raleigh that scheduled this vote in conjunction with the Republican Presidential Primary on May 8th when they knew that turnout among Democrats and Independent voters would be minimized.

Then, for good measure, they turn on the Diatribe Machine. This is not about same-sex marriage. That issue has, for better or worse, been settled in North Carolina. This is about power.

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

I love hearing how this country has religious freedom and then hear that we have to live our lives subject to someone else's religious laws.

No one has said a word yet about any rational reason marriage liberty should be withheld from certain citizens. Where is second-class citizenship mentioned in the Constitution?

native 1 year, 2 months ago

I guess the next amendment will be that "no one under 16 is allowed to drive".......Its the same thing...Gays are not allowed to marry NOW....Therefore they are wasting time and money trying to prevent something that is already against the law....

madmama 1 year, 2 months ago

"MARRIAGE" is a CHRISTIAN institution! Not a gay institution! The Bible says that a man being with a man or a woman with a woman is an abomination so if someone wants to argue that fact, they are going to have to answer to someone with much more authority than Nick or Larry! I agree with the above. If you just have to be together, call it something else besides trying redefine what MARRIAGE is...the union of a man and a woman! Question? So if everyone is just free to go around getting married to whoever they love and do whatever makes them happy, what happens if someone loves their Uncle, cousin, or their dog? Is it their freedom to get married to them because it's love and that makes them happy!? Would all judgement be withheld then? I think not!!

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

madmama2 - Marriage is a civil contract enforced by the government. There is no requirement under the law that it be ratified by any church. A courthouse ceremony is quite sufficient. Care to rephrase that religious stuff?

Christian? Are you suggesting that Jews, Buddhists, atheists and Muslims are not allowed to marry in this country?

Our laws restrict certain aspects of marriage, but those restrictions must apply to all citizens equally. That means no one gets to marry a horse no matter their sexual orientation. You got a problem with that?

Where does it say a woman can't have sex with a woman?

Are you related to bannertowing?

madmama 1 year, 2 months ago

I only brought Nick and Larry's faith up because it had already been drug into it! I never said marriage didn't take place in places other than the church I was just referring to what the Bible had to say on the topic! As far as women being with women, sorry to crash your fantasy but homosexuality refers to both men and women in the Bible...read it!

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

madmama, I'm apparently a lot more familiar with the Bible than you. I get that the bozos who wrote Leviticus didn't like the dude on dude thing. But where did they prohibit girl-girl stuff. Come on, this book rules your life. Surely you've read it. I have.

Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago

JimHeim - What I want to know is where can we see this woman on woman thing?

justmyopinion 1 year, 2 months ago

Harley-man's post

ONLY according to you and your right wing religious zealot buddies.

Let me ask you a question harley-man. Lets take the first 4 words of your response "Only according to you." Well, what's your point? You mean someone should base their beliefs and opinions based on what you think verses what they think for themselves?? Is that what you are saying??

threeputt 1 year, 2 months ago

Evangelicals’ own religious beliefs declare that God is the only one who can recognize a marriage as sacrosanct and holy. Let Him be the judge in the end. Don’t let a violation of the Constitution of the United States and of individual liberty be enshrined in our state’s constitution. Vote “Against” Amendment One on May 8th.

Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago

Harley - My point is that people should stop this discrimination. The bible for many is used to provide a base for this discrimination. You should have just stopped at "People should stop at discrimination."

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

Very good, you found it. Note it was not one of the old laws but added much later. And as I read it, it was God's idea. he gave them over to it.

Note also that madmama had no clue.

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

If our esteemed county commissioners wanted to do something useful (yeah, I know) they would follow the lead of Guilford County and go after the mortgage bankers who have been avoiding millions of dollars in taxes they should have paid for all of those deed transfers they kept hidden. It's not like we couldn't use the money.

cmptrepair 1 year, 2 months ago

call me johnnie come lately, but how can two or three people deny an entire county population a vote on projects that cost everyone money? repubs. are constantly talking about the constitution, and taking back the country, when right here in moore county, citizens are being denied their constitutional rights. Now L & P want to impose their beliefs on everyone in moore county, what happened to separation of church and state???? These guys think they are some kind of ruler who imposed there will on the people. I'll vote for anyone who runs against these guys who think they are living in a closed society.

Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago

Harley - I can never stop half way thru what you write, that would be wrong, you've got too much to say & I might miss the funny part, plus I enjoy it, though I don't always agree. As for the Bible, I pretty much stick to the New Testament as it's more forgiving and I'm fallible (I know that's hard to believe, but it's true.) I kind of see you as the funny liberal & me your opposite.

JoeGarrison 1 year, 2 months ago

All this vote does is allow the people, all peopl, both for and against to vote on how they wish marriage to be defined in our Constituion. Several other states have similar measures in their constitutions. Those who oppose the ammendment should vote against it. But many on this sight are intolerant of conservatives or people of faith and are trying to muddy the issue by hurling epithets like bigot, homophobe and so on and so forth. Other town boards including Greensboro's voted to not support the ammendment so those of you who oppose what the commissioners are doing should condemn those boards as well, right?

Vote for Ammendment One on May 8th:)

justmyopinion 1 year, 2 months ago

Harley-

I have asked several times here how people can claim the bible as their reason why they believe this and that - and seem to conveniently overlook many extreme beliefs contained in that same book. I NEVER get an answer. Perhaps YOU can offer one.

I can't asnwer for others but give me an example of what you are referring to. BTW, is it an accurate guess that you are an atheist?

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

The reason we call those who support Amendment 1 bigots, homophobes and such is that's what they are. Not one can give a rational reason why one group of Americans should be deprived of a right to marry, freely available to all others in a similar group.

The only workable hypothesis is that a lot of social conservatives have a mean streak.

jamjam 1 year, 2 months ago

the State constitution is trumped by the constitution of the United States of America. I personally do not care what you guys call marriage. the divorce rate is outrageously high. people can't get along because they are so self absorbed that they can not truly understand liberty and freedom. remember that when we lessen the rights of others, we limit our own liberty.

justmyopinion 1 year, 2 months ago

I don't understand why democrats whine so much. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion regardless of what Jim Heim or anyone for that matter thinks. A person's beliefs and moral standings are just that...theirs. Not Jim's or anyone else's. If I believe homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry or if I do, who is Jim Heim to question my or anyone's opinions or beliefs?

geoffcutler 1 year, 2 months ago

Jim, you have learned well from Terry McAuliffe and Saul Alinsky. The problem is these playbooks are now well known to the public, thus your sidestepping issues, and boxing your opponents into corners is virtually useless.

blessherheart 1 year, 2 months ago

Madmama.... marriage is a legal institution.... not a religious one.

Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago

I think we should just outlaw marriage altogether. There would certainly be a lot less divorces and it would solve everyones problem.

JoeGarrison 1 year, 2 months ago

Marraige has overtime become a legal institution. Again the first recorded marriage in all of human history is in the Bible, when God joined Adam and Eve as husband in wife, in the garden of Eden. For all of recorded human history, marriage has been between men and women. Even in pagan cultures, who have no respect for the teachings of biblical Christianity, view marriage as an institution between men and women for the preservation of the family. If you don't like the ammendment then use your rights and vote against it, but don't buy into Jim Heim's hateful rants against people of faith and his divisive and outdated tactics. There is a reason democrats are in the minority when they have people like Jim Heim in positions of leadership, which should tell you of the state of the modern democrat party.
Vote for Ammendment one on May 8th.

madmama 1 year, 2 months ago

I just love how some fools stand back and scream keep government out of our personal lives...and then stick out their grubby little hands. Hypocrites! And further, cry separation of church and state and then cry out to God when someone shoots up their kids school! Either you want God in or out! Make up your minds! America is losing her identity because she no longer knows who she is! This USED to be a Christian nation! One nation under GOD...who are we...without a vision the people parish...I thank God we have a few people left in leadership with some moral values and obviously people with some moral values voted them there!

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

madmama, this was never a Christian nation. It was founded on liberty.

Search the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution all you like, you will find not a single reference to Christianity.

JoeGarrison 1 year, 2 months ago

Again Jim is showing his ignorance. Many of our founding fathers were practicing Christians and you can examine their personal writings to see how their faith influenced their thoughts on how this nation should be founded. I suggest Jim that you read George Washington's Sacred Fire. The founders held church services in the capitol building during sessions of Congress. “The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?”

Below are two more quotes from Franklin that express his understanding of God:

“My dear friend, do not imagine that I am vain enough to ascribe our success [Revolution] to any superiority…If it had not been for the justice of our cause, and the consequent interposition of Providence, in which we had faith, we must have been ruined. If I had ever before been an atheist, I should now have been convinced of the being and government of a Deity!” —In a letter to William Strahan, August 19, 1784

“I must own I have so much faith in the general government of the world by Providence that I can hardly conceive a transaction of such momentous importance to the welfare of millions now existing, and to exist in the posterity of a great nation, should be suffered to pass without being in some degree influenced, guided, and governed by that omnipotent, omnipresent, and beneficent Ruler.” —On the impact of Independence on generations of Americans during the Constitutional Convention These are quotes from Benjamin franklin the least religous founding father. This nation was founded on Christian principles of God given liberty and limited government. Just because you choose to deny facts doesn't make them any less true. Case closed.

Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago

The DofC (Not specifically Christian, but Godly):

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

====================================

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Arestorer 1 year, 2 months ago

What "I" think and believe,rules and regulates my life...What Nick or Larry thinks,has nothing to do with the way I live my life...I dont care what religion or belief you have....You dont have the right to force it on me.....And, they dont have the right to assume they speak for all of the County....I dont care how they vote on the Ammendment and its nobodys business how I vote...This is not County business...STOP WASTING MY MONEY YOU "CONSERVATIVE."

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

From the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the US Senate, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

But wait, early documents mentioned God, and only Christians can believe in a God so I guess we're Christian after all...

Arestorer 1 year, 2 months ago

Many religions believe in gods and creators.....So What... I believe Jesus is "My Lord and Saviour"...And, I surely need Him.....But I want force it on YOU....I wish more people did believe in Jesus.....But, at the same time, I wish everyone would leave it out of politics...And I sure dont want no local Politician, telling me what I believe!!!!

"SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE"

madmama 1 year, 2 months ago

Arestorer- If you believe in Jesus and need Him as you say, you wouldn't want Him separated from any area of your life. You may need to re-examine some things. We need Him present in all things! A person of faith is just that; it is part of who they are! They don't take it off like a jacket when they are doing certain jobs! It goes with them to the work place, to school, and yes even shows up when doing county work!

JimHeim 1 year, 2 months ago

madmama, I promise, no matter how the vote goes you don't have to enter a gay marriage. Is that what's bothering you?

In fact, no matter how the vote goes gay marriage will be illegal in this state. The vote has no practical effect, and is a waste of time and money.

DaveyNC 1 year, 2 months ago

OK, late to this party due to having to be out of town on a family emergency, but I thought I would chime in.

WTH are county commissioners fooling around with this stuff?
All you thumpers out there that think we should have to live according to your beliefs can go jump in the lake. We don't need Wahhabi Baptists in this country.
Somebody explain to me how two people of the same sex getting married does anything at all to harm your marriage? How, exactly, does it affect your relationship with your spouse?
What business is it of yours if two people want to tie the knot and suffer like all the other married people?

They are citizens too and as such should be allowed the same legal and financial protections (and obligations) that go along with being married.

Stick to your own business, fundies.

moonchild7 1 year, 2 months ago

Those commisoners need to be recalled if that's possible because their "issues" with gay marriage have absolutely NOTHING to do with GOVERNING. It's a legal issue that sooner or later will be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. They are wasting our time and money. KEEP YOUR PREDJUDICES in YOUR HOMES and CHURCHES. Evangelical Conservative "Christians" are like most other religions in that they are always "searching" for new members. They are taught that ANYONE who isn't "WITH" them is "AGAINST" them. It's the DEVIL vs GOD argument, as in anyone who doesn't think like them must be siding with the DEVIL and needs SAVING. Of course many other religions and cults work in the same way. We who have a much more OPEN and VARIED view of LIFE and PEOPLE are looked down upon since they think it means we have no belief's when it comes to GOD/JESUS/BUDDAH/MOSES/MOHAMED/ EARTH MOTHER....etc., etc., etc. Their one sided mentalities are dangerous to humanity. They want to deny life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to a multitude of human beings who only want to LOVE and be LOVED.

Courseaire 1 year, 2 months ago

Moonie - This ones for you: Love, love will keep us together. Think of me babe whenever. Some sweet talking girl comes along singing her song. Don't mess around, You gotta be strong. Just Stop [stop], 'cause I really love You. Stop [stop], I'll be thinking of you. Look in my heart and let love keep us together

Arestorer 1 year, 2 months ago

madmama;; Christ is in every aspect of my day...But, I dont wear it on my sleeve....And, Im not going to try to make YOU live by my beliefs...

FightFireWithFire 1 year, 2 months ago

Funny, if you remove religion alltogether from most arguments, they tend to fall apart quick. I think people need to stop running around screaming "G-d wants this, and Jesus wants that", and start realizing that HUMANS wrote all of the religious books of the day. They wrote down how they wanted people to live, according to THEIR rules. If you take a god aspect away, they all become POLITICIANS, making laws. Imagine that.