County, Robbins Looking at Water Deal
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The Moore County Board of Commissioners gave County Manager Cary McSwain the go-ahead Tuesday to set up a joint water negotiating session with the Robbins Town Board.
Mayor Lonnie English and other town commissioners came down to Carthage to hear a presentation on water sources before the county board, which evaluated Robbins as a potential water source over 10- and 30-year periods. English said he liked what he heard.
A North West Moore Water District was not considered in this analysis, as it would be self-sufficient, commissioners were told. Additional wells for short-term and long-term water supply along with optimizing Harnett County supply were also suggested as possibilities for the early stage.
Moore County now supplies its customers 2.755 million gallons a day (mgd) on average, though its "worst day" demand - the maximum amount - is nearly double that: almost 4.7 mgd. By 2040, Moore County's population is projected to grow from 24,838 to 41,540, with nearly 20,000 water customers demanding an average of 4.303 million gallons. The maximum day demand would climb to 7.35 mgd. The county doesn't have enough water supply to meet that need.
Moore can just meet its present maximum demand, but its projected need 30 years out calls for 2.65 million more gallons a day to meet expected maximum day demands by 2040. That water will have to come from additional sources. One could be Robbins and the Deep River.
One model shown Tuesday afternoon pictured using an existing tank near the old Sentry Furniture site in Robbins, drilling new wells, and optimizing the existing Harnett County supply. That would be a short-term solution.
A 10-year model looked at getting 1.5 mgd from a new Robbins plant. With the maximum day demand in Robbins estimated at .4 mgd, that model pictured 1.1 mgd remaining for Moore County customers. It called for a new water plant and pump, a new raw water intake and two pump upgrades, building a 16-inch line from the new plant to a new tank, a 16-inch main along Mount Carmel Road and a 12-inch line along Dowd Road. Total cost for that 10-year Robbins alternative was projected at $14,44,172.
Looking further out, a 30-year Robbins plan would include drawing an additional 2.2 mgd from Deep River, expanding the new water treatment plant, and building a 16-inch main line along Beulah Hill Road to Seven Lakes, a new million-gallon tank on N.C. 73, and a 16-inch line along that state highway east of Seven Lakes. That would add 3.3 mgd - more than enough to satisfy the projected 2.65 mgd the county will need in 2040.
Cost of the 30-year investment was put at $15,169,975, for a total of nearly $30 million. None of that included any costs from negotiations with the town of Robbins for use of its assets.
'Time to Look'
The county is in good shape at the present time and has a water surplus, Commissioner Nick Picerno said. It's time to look ahead.
"I think if you don't look at these things - and just look strictly at the dollars - you are shortsighted," Picerno said. "I think there are so many more pieces to this puzzle than a math equation. ... I am just saying we have a chance right now. We have a water surplus at this point, so now is the time to look around at Robbins.
"Robbins needs help. They are part of Moore County, and they need help. Some of this is development of the economic impact of Moore County. We are having that discussion with Robbins and seeing what their vision is, how we can be a partner. While we have the chance to do it right, let's do it right. This is the best information we've ever had on water."
Chairman Larry Caddell said he was also looking for a long-term solution.
"The toughest thing I had as mayor - having run a business all my life where my business model never projected past three years - then, when I got elected mayor, I realized that you weren't making decisions for two months and two years," Caddell said, referring to his years as mayor of Carthage. He added:
"You are making them for 20 years. I can tell you in the town of Carthage, we had 3-2 votes - votes that, if they had failed, Carthage would not look like it is today. Somebody on that board had a vision of what they wanted for that town. We need to have partners. Sometimes the cheapest option isn't the best way to go. ...
"Right now, we have the information. I think we ought not to stop discussions with Robbins just because we have a cheaper alternative. It is just common sense; a good short-term fix is not going to work for the long run. Let us talk to everybody, turn every stone over, and make a good decision based on 20 years from today."
A number of short-term proposals were also presented for comparison. One calls for adding seven new wells (at 100 gallons per day) to meet the 10-year projected additional demand. That model estimated that 21 such new wells would be needed to meet 30-year water needs.
The cost of those new wells - brought on line in two phases - would be about $6.4 million for 10-year county water needs. Augmenting the Harnett County supply would cost around $1.5 million to bring up available supply from the current million gallons a day to the contract limit of 2 mgd.
About $1 million of that projected cost would cover two new 16-inch water mains that are also part of the Robbins 30-year model.
'Blinders On'
Afterward, the county manager said he considered adding that many new wells unrealistic.
"It is hardly likely we will be able to find 21 well sites because of the dispersement," McSwain told Robbins Commissioner Terri Holt. "That Zone 1 had 22 wells in it, but they are pretty close together. There is no idea you could actually get all 22 there because of who owns the land."
McSwain said afterward that the county's present weakness is not having a major water source, but that can be a strength.
"If we have multiple sources - from ground water and surface water and connectivity - that means if any systems go bad, we can get water from another source," McSwain said. "Lake Tillery is a tremendous source of raw water, but the Montgomery system through-put is poor. They have to do a tremendous upgrade before they are viable."
A larger, regional plan continues to be studied, he said.
Caddell asked new Robbins Mayor Lonnie English if he had any comments he'd like to make to the commissioners about the presentation. English was encouraged and hopeful.
"I think a lot of people in Robbins - and I've lived there most of my life - they have blinders on," English said. "When I say 'blinders on,' I mean they hate to talk about the future. I graduated in 1969 from North Moore, and I know most of the people I graduated with have left Robbins for one reason: because there is nothing really there for them. I think this water system - if our board approves that - could really help that."
Carthage Town Manager Carol Sparks reminded commissioners that the county seat has the capability of producing much more water than the town needs and could sell water to the county.
"We have a 22-million-gallon reservoir," Sparks said. "We have a water plant capable of producing a million gallons a day. We produce 350,000. My board, a few years ago, offered to sell the county 300,000 gallons a day. We have a line. The interconnection is there."
The county manager will set up a joint meeting between the Robbins and county boards to work on a water deal.
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Comments
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
Quote; "Carthage Town Manager Carol Sparks reminded commissioners that the county seat has the capability of producing much more water than the town needs and could sell water to the county. "We have a 22-million-gallon reservoir," Sparks said. "We have a water plant capable of producing a million gallons a day. We produce 350,000. My board, a few years ago, offered to sell the county 300,000 gallons a day. We have a line. The interconnection is there." What was the 'Dreamers and Visionaries' response to accessing a 22,000,000 gallon reservoir within throwing distance of their meeting hall that would provide the required visionary mantra of a "surface water and groundwater combination" for the future of the county with absolutely not one "Dime" of required infrastructure costs to the County? Silence, brother, pure silence. Do you really think that they are going to send their $300,000,000 man (T.Cary) to talk to Carthage Town Manager about something as practical as that when Robbins is ready for the taking? Not a chance. Their mantra is "Sell, baby, sell!" and it is only directed to the one entity in this county that is on the financial ropes to the point that they might have to sell their souls to this crowd. It's sad times all around as long as the "That time has past" crowd is in control of Moore county's future.
bubbasmith 1 year, 2 months ago
@deidretg- Stop by Robbins city hall and look at the financial report and you will see that Robbins is not on "the ropes" and doing well. Robbins has control of the water source and will soon have wells of their own to be independent from Montgomery County or anyone else. Looks like they are in the drivers seat and won't have to sell their soul.
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
I have too many records sitting on my table about past BOC actions in this county spanning 25 years to believe you without some reservation. With the $300,000,000 man enroute to do the BOC's business the 'backroom boys' way nobody is safe until they are out of town (permanently). I have hundreds of pages of this guy's past public record in South Carolina and you ain't seen nothin' yet if he intends to match that record here in Moore County before he sails off into the sunset next November.
SoPinesNo1 1 year, 2 months ago
Wells in Robbins are not likely to work. That part of the County is known for wells with high iron content, and low volume output. Think about it, there are talc mines nearby, and oil companies want to frack for oil and gas deposits in the area. What makes Robbins think that they can drill wells with borrowed money and it be affordable to treat and of sufficient volume to provide it's citizens with a safe supply of drinking water?
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
$25,000 should get them a decent 'Engineering Study' with a more certain determination than any of us can give them from our armchairs. Everybody should know who is right and who is not in due time. At least they are taking charge of their own destiny. That is a very encouraging sign. I'm sure Aberdeen, Southern Pines, Foxfire, Pinebluff, Whispering Pines, et. al. would look forward to them remaining in the "we can do it" club. I feel sorry for those who can't do it and end up like Vass, twisting in the wind for years under inept Moore County control.
SH59 1 year, 2 months ago
What happened to the article on it this morning? When I went to it the page wasn't available. I hope this isn't some kind of censoring, a lot of people had some good comments there.
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
@SH59; Hey, that thread stayed up a whole lot longer than I expected. I'm sure the pressure to blackhole that information was pretty intense. My hat is off to the new 'Editor' for leaving it up as long as he did. Maybe he likes to sleep well at night knowing that he is honoring his profession. The typical takedown practiced by the previous leadership would make Sam Ragan die all over again if he could see what passes for investigative journalism at The Pilot.
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
That previous article is the first one that I know of where The Pilot removed it from ever existing. All the other takedowns I've experienced could at least be found through a word search. Not that one. Knowledge is powerful but it is truly fleeting when it comes to The Pilot.
SH59 1 year, 2 months ago
Well, I'm going to say it again. There are a lot of people here concerned about our water and I want to alert everyone about the natural gas drilling trying to come here in North Carolina and potentially here in northern Moore County. This industry has a bad track record of polluting wells so I really hope we all stand strong to protect the beautiful area and our resources.
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
Well said.
Arestorer 1 year, 2 months ago
And, What happened to the story on the Brewery...The owner was even there, saying he wanted the feedback....ODD !!!
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
@Arestorer; Unlike John Chappell's article about Robbins, which does not exist any longer, if you type in the word 'Brewery' in the article search box at the top of the page here, that article immediately comes up and it still may be commented on if you like. That type of article is not near as explosive as the one that disappeared completely a few hours ago.
Arestorer 1 year, 2 months ago
deidretg;;; Try again !!!!!!
"They" must have also disliked my comment about "behind the curtain"..
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
You are right. Oh well, more of the same to come, I guess. I wonder if they even let the new editor know what is going on on its website. Incredibly bad journalism. It's just Society Page Central from here on out, I suppose. Let's party while the financial house burns to the ground, much like that beautiful new Pinehurst Village Hall did so many years ago under the inept bureaucracy of Moore County back then (1994).
ncsnafu1 1 year, 2 months ago
@deidretg: Searching on "brewery" brings up the story from today not the story that had 40 posts against. At a minimum, the Pilot should have provided a link from the story today to the original story and not "nuked" it as they did. Deleting the original story and its 40 posts won't cause all of the many issues raised in the posts to simply go away. My guess is that many of these issues will come up in the required public hearings later this summer.
DoubleHeroides 1 year, 2 months ago
@ncsnafu1 This is off topic for this column however I’d like to direct you back to the discussion on the new brewery article if you’d care to join us. I was discussing the lack of a need for public hearings as you have stated and the general sentiment of previous posters and citizens to the brewery itself.
clbvpm 1 year, 2 months ago
A lot of things disappear from this site...I reference the 100+ comments on the story about the judgement again Chris McKenzie's wife.
clbvpm 1 year, 2 months ago
*against
Bflat 1 year, 2 months ago
Since when has "The County" really cared one whip about Robbins? Up until now, Robbins has been pretty much on its own. Why all the hoopla all of a sudden? The Water Czar wants to expand all over the county with water meters, software to read all those water meters, along with ongoing maintenance, technology upgrades and equipment. There are certain areas that could become rather nice resevoirs because to the creeks and streams running through the county.
cantstandya 1 year, 2 months ago
What does Mr. Davis think about this,he has far more knowledge on such matters as anyone of the above mentioned,he has a strong background in infrastructure and should be able to add some intelligent views on the table.
Toda 1 year, 2 months ago
cantstandya => Thank you so much for your confidence in my writing and research.
JohnChappell 1 year, 2 months ago
For clarity, The Pilot puts brief early versions of stories online when possible and replaces them with the full account later. That happened in this case. You can tell when you are reading a preliminary version, because it will say something like "see the full story in Friday's print edition" at the end. Comments on early versions naturally disappear when the full version (as in this case above) replaces the shorter, early version. It might be better to wait for a full report to appear before posting any comment.
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
I see. Well, let's just bring the pertinent comments made by the BOC at their meeting over to this updated version. I'm sure The Pilot wouldn't want the public to miss their very telling words. First comment; There seems to be some important numbers missing that were presented at the Special Session on Water. Here are some facts gained from the audio tape of this meeting. ----- Five options were listed for meeting the future water needs of (Pinehurst, Seven Lakes, Vass, Highland Hills) Moore County's limited water system (excluding Aberdeen, Southern Pines, Foxfire, Pinebluff). #1) Robbins 10 year plan, #2) Robbins 30 year plan #3) Drill New Wells 10 year plan, #4) Drill New Wells 30 year plan, #5) Harnett County 10 year plan. The projected final costs for each of the options were stated as follows: #1 = $21,305,980, #1 + #3 = $31,102,240, #2 = $22,330,200, #1 + #5 = $25,424,282. The projected population that will pay for all of this is now at 24,838 in the service area. Mr. Gould stated that the average utility bill for Moore County customers right now is $53.51 a month. He stated with reference to the Robbins Water Plan that one funding agency that he inquired about funding the money for that project would require the Moore County water ratepayers to have their monthly bills increased to a minimum of $65.00. His quote "The threshold for one funding agency that we talked to was $65.00 before they would even consider loaning us the money. So, that tells me that we are probably low."
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
Second set of quotes from the BOC Special Meeting on Water that appeared in the lost article; In consideration of all the options presented at the special water session, Mr. Gould stated, "We recognize that wells could provide the most affordable solution to water supply, also, in a very short time. When you're looking at the Robbins alternative you're looking at 3 to 5 years, maybe closer to 5 years before you would get a drop of water." In a discussion between himself and Commissioner Lea, he estimated that the wells option would take 12 to 18 months to complete. The final costs for the wells was estimated to be $6,900,000. --- Some of the important quotes from the commissioners from the audio tape are as follows: -- Commissioner Picerno; "If it's just strictly a dollars game, it's an easy solution. Go drill the wells and we don't have to have anymore discussion. But the question I'm asking is what is the vision of the Board." A few minutes later he said "Would people really revolt over $3 or $4 a month. I don't know, they might. I personally would not." --- Chairman Caddell; "Everybody in the room knows that it's cheaper to build wells than to build a plant in Robbins. I've been to the meetings where they said "The aquifer was unlimited". It's cheaper. It would be cheaper on the people, but is that the smartest thing to do."
deidretg 1 year, 2 months ago
Third quote from the BOC meeting as commented on in the last article;---- The best statement of the entire meeting was made by Commissioner Melton toward the end. He stated the following; "If we can come with a figure, then, rather than this Board decide, let's put it out to the ratepayers. This is a large investment and I don't think this Board, here, should make the decision on this type of investment. It should be left up to the ratepayers." -- That room got quieter than a 'lady of the night' at a Billy Sunday tent revival meeting. The microphones were silent long enough to let us all know that there has been a seismic shift in the old TPo3 majority on the Board. God Bless You, Jimmy Melton. May you live long and hold that line for the citizens of this county that have long been denied the right to decide these kind on major debt decisions.
tarheelborn 1 year, 2 months ago
Look Folks. The REAL REASON the entire previous story has been totally removed, is because of my being in attendance at the Robbins Town meeting which was called to "Legally Fire " the Town manager. Again, I'll say at that meeting I overheard a businessman speaking to the New Mayor about his company had presented a "Written Proposal" to the Town for a "Partnership" with the Town for Water and Sewer.... His company was in Research Triangle Park/Durham and said he was wishing to Build Two New Manufacturing Businesses in Robbins and one of his company's had come down and refurbished one of the town's worse sewer manholes at "NO COST" to the town and wanted to do ALL of the towns which needed to be refurbished as part of his proposal also at NO COST, because it was part of the Partnership deal with the Town. I sure wish whomever the gentleman was would come to the next water meeting. I would Love to talk with him myself and ask permission to speak... The GOOD OLE BOYZ in the county commission chambers, county manager and the new Robbins Town council along with this news publication DO NOT WANT THE VOTING PUBLIC TO HEAR ABOUT THIS, and I really cannot understand why. Robbins Needs JOBS and sure could use some of that RTP Money to bring those much needed jobs to the town....
Regardless of what Mr. Chappell might have said earlier here. ""For clarity, The Pilot puts brief early versions of stories online when possible and replaces them with the full account later. That happened in this case. You can tell when you are reading a preliminary version, because it will say something like "see the full story in Friday's print edition" at the end. Comments on early versions naturally disappear when the full version (as in this case above) replaces the shorter, early version. It might be better to wait for a full report to appear before posting any comment. I say, Hogwash!