It's Discrimination, and It's Wrong
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A solider serves one, two or perhaps three tours of duty in Afghanistan, Iraq or wherever directed, fighting for our freedom.
That same soldier returns to Fayetteville, Goldsboro or Jacksonville, and it’s OK to refuse to rent him a home or not hire him for a part-time job? It’s OK to deny the pastor of a local church basic government services or “sit at the back of the bus,” all because of his sexual orientation?
This kind of discrimination was embraced in the 2012 North Carolina Republican Party Platform: “Government should treat all citizens impartially, without regard to wealth, race, ethnicity, disability, religion, sex, political affiliation or national origin. We oppose all forms of invidious discrimination. Sexual orientation is not an appropriate category.”
The dehumanization and demonizing of some citizens by the N.C. Republican Party is completely unacceptable. The elected political leaders of our state approved this language.
These same folks took an oath to protect and defend (the Declaration of Independence), which declares, “We hold it to be self-evident that all persons are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
Call our state representative Jamie Boles and soon-to-be State Sen. Jerry Tillman and ask them how they, as leaders in the party, can condone this travesty.
Discrimination of any kind is wrong.
Michael Edwards
Pinehurst
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Comments
Bentpan 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Mr Edwards the people ( Not republicans unless you think 61% of voters are republicans) of North Carolina, indeed across the country have said quite clearly Sexual orientation is not a civil right, As for your opening, how about some legit examples, because the scenarios you present in regards to the soldier are all illegal, as to the pastor, depends on the government service (separation of church and state). Face it, you took your case to the people and they said NO. Homosexuality is not a normal or healthy way to live and we as a society are not going to promote it as such, however to the best of my knowlege noone has curtailed your ability to enter into a homosexual relationship or suggested you receive less protection under the law in fact under hate crime statutes you in fact have more protection.
Hembloche 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Well Bentpan, the people are wrong. And it's not 61% of North Carolinians, it's 61% of the people who got off their butts to vote. The fact that this amendment was placed on a primary ballot, rather than general election ballot is a joke. They intentionally placed it when they knew the majority of people coming out to vote would be conservative, since the incumbent party generally gets less of a turn out for primaries. Anyway, that's not what this letter is about. The republican party blatantly and openly stated that it's ok to discriminate against gays in their platform. Absolutely disgusting.
MikeNC 11 months, 2 weeks ago
When the homosexual community (All 3% of them) address the discrimination against the unborn and wonder why that travesty is condoned; I will then consider them to be an "Appropriate Category" Mike
Hembloche 11 months, 2 weeks ago
What does that have to do with anything??? I'm reasonably sure the homosexual community aren't responsible for many (if any) abortions. What a ridiculous argument.
MikeNC 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Hembloche: It's over ! The issue was well publicized and politicized. And the people spoke ! Period. Diane
AFCHIEF 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Mr Edwards, as a 30 vet of the Air Force your letter makes absolutely no sense tying this into discrimination against military personnel. All Conservatives fully support our military personnel in every way possible. On the contrary liberals go out of their way to degrade military personnel. When is the last time you seen a conservative attend a anti-military protest? Classic example is Moonchild who admits to being a anti-military protestor and who continually posts anti-military comments on these blogs. Please don't tie your gay support feelings to the military.
Hembloche 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Diane, sorry, but it's far from over. I know you'd prefer we just shut up but it's not gonna happen. I could say the same to you about abortion. The supreme court ruled on it. It's over. Get over it. But I won't, cause i'm sure just like me, if you feel strongly about something you're not just gonna sit by and do or say nothing.
debsalomon 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Could we please talk about something really important...like the women and children who are being massacred daily in Syria?
blessherheart 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Condone it? Boles voted to put it on the ballot!
OldSpook 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Yawn.
MikeNC 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Debsaloman...You will have to talk to Obama about all the death, slaughtering and suffering going on in Syria. When Libya's populace had the chance of a massacre to start at any time; Obama could not wait to get in there...he stated we had to because sitting idly by and watching such was not who we are as a people. The actual massacre is happeneing in Syria right now and has been full throttle for over a year now. Have we now become "that type" of people in such a short time? Politics is hell and people's suffering has no bearing on it. Only the people holding office and wanting to maintain the power and perks that come along with their position count in politics.... Mike
skylinefirepest 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Hembloche...I guess if it had really been a hot "got to win" topic maybe your side would have come out and voted!! Got lazy or, more likely, just didn't care! But Bentpan was right on the money...no matter how you want to spin it homosexuality is not normal behavior and abortion ( don't read that as the Liberal "women's rights" but read it as some people wanting to have sex without taking any precautions...and then MURDERING the results with the approval of the Loony Liberal Left.) I'll say it again...if you think that homosexuality is a civil right then what about the civil rights of the pedophiles and beastiality fans??? Shouldn't the same loony left that wants all kinds of rights and marriage for homosexuals tout the approval of government for a person to marry his favorite goat or six year old???
Hembloche 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Such a stupid, stupid, stupid comparison. You compare what happens between 2 consenting adults to an adult who would take advantage of a child or animal? C'mon now, you're not really dumb enough to think that argument holds any water.
Hembloche 11 months, 2 weeks ago
And further, I don't actually support abortion, except in extreme circumstances (rape, incest, mothers life at stake). I was simply using that as an example for Diane. I wouldn't expect her to give up her attempts to criminalize abortion anymore than she should expect me to give up trying for equal rights for ALL. Also, i'm not a democrat or a liberal so save your name calling for someone who is.
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
"Hembloche: It's over ! The issue was well publicized and politicized. And the people spoke ! Period. Diane"
In Diane and Mike's alternate universe:
Dateline, Raleigh, N.C. 1958: The people of North Carolina overwhelmingly supported an amendment to the State Constitution that forbids caucasians and negroes from attending the same public and private schools and colleges. The Governor stated, "The people spoke! Period." Thea spokesman for the Eisenhower Administration stated that the Federal Government will respect the "wisdom of individual State's in deciding how to run their school systems." When pressed that the 14th Amendment which requires both "due process" and "equal protection" of law to all citizens, the spokesman indicated that only an "activist" judge would infer that these two clauses in the 14th Amendment meant that individual state's could not run their schools as their citizens see fit.
Dateline, Raleigh, NC 1962: The people of North Carolina overwhelmingly supported an Amendment to the State Constitution that allows private business owners to determine who may and who may not enter their business establishments, and who may or may not avail themselves of the services business establishments offer. North Carolina thus joins several other southern states, among them Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, and Georgia is passing such an Amentment by popular vote. Indiana, Arizona, Texas, and Oklahoma has passed very similar Amendments within the last 18 months. The effect of such measures is that negroes are often refused entry to businesses owned by white people, such as restaurants and hotels. A spokesman for the Kennedy Administration indicated that the President is oppossed to such measures, but recognizes that there is little the Federal Government can do to prohibit individual states for passing such State Constitutional Amendments that only apply to privately owned businesses.
Dateline, Raleigh, North Carolina, 1966, The citizens of North Carolina, by a six to one majority, overwhelmingly passed an Amendment to the State Constitution that forbids caucasians from marrying negroes or people of Mexican or Latin American descent, if such people are 25% or more Negroe, Mexican, or Latin American. There is a case pending before the Virginia Supreme Court in which a black woman and white man seek to be married. Virginia prohibts such marriages by Statute, but not by the State's Constitution. The governor of Virginia stated today that he will ensure that the people of Virginia, like their neighbor to the south, get a chance to amend the State Constitution, if "activists liberal do-gooder's" on the Supreme Court overturn the Statute, but also stated that he was confident they would not because, "people know where these folks live and where their kids go to school."
She and Mike will deny it of course. And, of course, I know they'll be telling us the truth (sic).
Thatcher 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Dateline, Time Magazine, May 2012: African-Americans oppose gay marriage by a 55%-42% margin. http://ideas.time.com/2012/05/09/will-black-voters-punish-obama-for-his-support-of-gay-rights/.
Dateline, November 2012: Mitt Romney is elected President of the United States.
(And I voted against Amendment One).
Thatcher 11 months, 2 weeks ago
This helps explain things: http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/06/naacp-conference-leaders-resigns-over-groups-support-of-marriage-equality/. Cheers!
cornbread 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Bravo to Mr. Edwards for reminding us of the Constitution to which we all as citizens swear allegiance and defend.
The equal protection clause is one of the keystones of our republic. The 14th Amendment reads in part "...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
It is beyond embarrassing that the NC GOP platform flies in the face of the US Constitution -- particularly the equal protection clause which the original Republicans wisely gave to the country over a century ago.
May the NC GOP platform committee recognize its folly and rescind this foolishness. And may true Republicans admonish party "leaders" until they act.
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Thatcher, "Dateline, Time Magazine, May 2012: African-Americans oppose gay marriage by a 55%-42% margin."
So what.
Is your point that if those who once were the victims of discrimination choose to discriminate themselves said discrimination on their part is justified, moral, legal? Shame on you.
skylinefirepest 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Hemmy...you didn't bother to really read what I said did you? I never called you any name at all. I simply said, and I stand by what I said, that if you wish to do the slightest bit of research on the subject you will find that it is almost entirely the Liberal Left that supports such foolishness. I support abortion for the same reasons that you do...but not as the lazy woman's manner of birth control! I'm simply amazed that the Left regards abortion as a woman's right...if the baby were an hour old and they killed it they would be charged with murder...but a few minutes old is fair game for the ol' forceps. Now the other issue is homosexuality...it is not normal and while I believe that all sorts of "rights" will be bestowed by those in power on the Left that will still not make it NORMAL. I'll accept your unspoken apology. Oh, and it IS a valid comparison since some groups have tried to make pedophilia legal and normal! And I never said that the favorite goat wouldn't be adult!!
Thatcher 11 months, 2 weeks ago
No, jimt, that is not my point. Folks here blame conservatives/Republicans every time a gay marriage vote is defeated...which is virtually every time it is put on the ballot, regardless of state (including California). You know this. The majority of African-Americans feel that gay rights are not the same as civil rights for African-Americans, and they (like the NAACP leader) are offended by the comparison. You know this, too. Stop blaming conservatives and Republicans. You know better.
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Pest:"...you didn't bother to really read what I said did you?"
Why would anybody read what you say. The part of the sentence above is the only part I read.
Thatcher 11 months, 2 weeks ago
But that "shame on you" line was priceless! Good try!
skylinefirepest 11 months, 2 weeks ago
JimT....I must admit, much as I hate to, that you really do make a good argument for abortion!!!
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
No Thatcher, I don't know better. Virtually everything you cited in response is factually wrong. The latest polls in California consistently report a significant majority now favor gay marriage. Conservatives consistently use gay issues as their favorite wedge issue
Finally, the percentage of blacks who believe black civil rights and gay civil rights are fundamentally the same now exceeds 50%. Don't think so? Read on
"The expected backlash among blacks to President Obama’s endorsement of same-sex marriage has yet to materialize. And a new Washington Post-ABC survey suggests that black opinion is very quickly moving the other way, with a majority of African Americans now saying they support same-sex marriage. Fifty-nine percent of blacks now say they support same-sex marriage, an 18-point jump since the president's announcement of his own support two weeks ago. The Post offered a pretty important caveat: the result is "tentative" due to the small sample of black voters in the poll."
Black voters have been targeted by groups opposed to gay marriage, as blacks have expressed greater opposition to it in polls over recent years — so much so that the passage of anti-gay initiatives like California's Proposition 8 were (inaccurately) attributed to black voters. Indeed, several prominent black clergy members have expressed disappointment with the president's position. "My feelings of disappointment arise not only from the fact that I don’t agree with the President, but also because his announcement came so suddenly, and without any warning to the Black church community," Jamal Bryant, the pastor of a Baltimore megachurch, told the Urban Daily after the president's announcement.
But in an interview with the Village Voice, ABC pollster Gary Langer pointed to a poll his agency conducted last week that showed 54 percent of black voters expressing a favorable view of the president's statement. "You see a net positive reaction from blacks, who are very supportive of the president, and a very slightly negative response from whites, [who] are less supportive of the president," Langer said."
Source: "Poll: Majority Of Blacks Support Gay Marriage After Obama's Endorsement" The Huffington Post,By Gene Demby Posted: 05/23/2012 4:22 pm Updated: 05/23/2012 4:58 pm
I know, I know...."lamestream media." Right? Doesn't comport with my a prior beliefs, ergo it's wrong, or liberal propaganda..", right? You've joined the pathetic looney right. You used to be better than that. I repeat, shame on you!!
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Pest,
Frack you too.
Thatcher 11 months, 2 weeks ago
jimt-- I would venture a guess that I posted more on this site opposing Amendment One than you did, opposing it on both religious and conservative grounds. You must have missed that, right? And your comment that I've "joined the pathetic right" is hilarious. I've always been a conservative, and I always will be. While opposing Amendment One, I told my conservative friends here and everyone else to vote their conscience...many can, and did, see things differently than me, and many have different views from me. They didn't condemn me, and I didn't condemn them. And then here you are. You can cite polls all you want...every time it has come to an actual vote gay marriage is defeated. Make me the bad guy if you want, tell me "shame on you," but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Thatcher 11 months, 2 weeks ago
And jimt, you should reconsider your last post to skylinefirepest.
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
I think I got my last post to the pest with just the right bon mot.
And as I've said on many, many posts, we don't vote on whether or not to deny fundamental rights to this or that group of citizens. Courts have consistently ruled that the right to marry is a fundamental right. Loving v. Virginia, 1967 was just one of the latest examples.
Of course, if Republicans/Conservatives had had their way, each of the "alternative universe" examples I gave would have actually taken place in many of the States. You do recall the "Jim Crow" laws don't you? Presumably the majority of white legislators (there were no, or very, very few non-white legislators then) voted for Jim Crow laws because they knew their constituents favored them. That didn't make it right legally or morally. But you, and certainly the other anti-gay marriage posters seem to believe that so long as the people voted on it, it's o.k. to legally discriminate against a group. It's not. I think deep in your heart you know it's not. And that's why I said "shame on you."
Finally, as I said before, just because some homophobic black preachers and jocks oppose gay marriage does not mean that it is not a "civil rights" issue.
Thatcher 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Good Lord jimt!! After all this, you still call me an "anti-gay marriage poster...." You wouldn't know what's "deep in (my) heart" if I gave you a GPS. You appear not to know what is in your own posts This is the 3rd time you have said "shame on you," which means you have read nothing that I posted. You need to take a deep breath, and ask your liberal friends to forward to you my posts opposing Amendment One. Then re-read your posts here. You will be embarrassed. Or maybe not.
Bentpan 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Thatcher jimt is one of our less informed posters, he forms opinions searches the internet for confirmation ( irregardless of source ) then pronounces them as fact and his "facts" tell him since you're a conservative and that we all march lockstep, only problem jimt is unlike Liberals we don't, you'll find a number of conservatives including Thatcher spoke out against Amendment one. But hey thanks for confirming my distain for you.
MikeNC 11 months, 2 weeks ago
jimt....To link "marriage rights" of the homosexuals to the civil rights of Blacks is laughable. A complete race of people who had zero rights. The young, the old, the infants and both genders were treated shamefully by a large part of Americans. Everything was micromanaged as to what legal rights they had. Homosexuals can do anything they want in public; and few will even give them a second look, let alone turn a fire hose or dogs loose on them or bar them from restaurants, swimming pools, water spigots, etc, etc for merely being in public. They can succeed or fail in America just like evryone else. And many are thriving just fine and they deserve what their efforts and hard work got them. They can live together and raise their families and love each other all they want. Nobody is bothering them or cares what they do. Our society's definition of marriage does not allow them to legally call themselves man and man or wife and wife. What will be next...saying that science is discriminating against them because they cannot procreate and demand government grants and studies to work that out..... "Gay marriage a civil rights issue"..."Shame on You." Mike
MikeNC 11 months, 2 weeks ago
debsalomon 1 day, 3 hours ago ...Could we please talk about something really important...like the women and children who are being massacred daily in Syria?
I responded deb....I thought you were gonna discuss this really important topic? Mike
The_AnonymusProfit 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Im not sure what the point is here...
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
bedpan, the following is not an actual word: "irregardless." I looked that up on the internet.
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Mike: "Homosexuals can do anything they want in public; and few will even give them a second look, let alone turn a fire hose or dogs loose on them or bar them from restaurants, swimming pools, water spigots, etc, etc for merely being in public. They can succeed or fail in America just like evryone else. And many are thriving just fine and they deserve what their efforts and hard work got them. They can live together and raise their families and love each other all they want. Nobody is bothering them or cares what they do."
You simply could not be more wrong factually. 29 States do not have laws that protect gays from employment discrimination in the public sector. Meaning, employers can refuse to hirea job applicant because he/she is homosexual, or can fire current employees for being gay. Many states, or counties, or cities can do the same when it comes to public sector employees. Indeed, the current christian fascist attorney general of Virgina chose to send a letter to every school superindentent in the State reminding them that there is no job protection guarantee under Virginia law that protects public school employees who are gay from beging fired. Gee, I wonder why he did that?
This gets us into the territory Dusty discussed last week, e.g. I believe what I believe, don't confuse me with actual provable facts. That's the thrust of bedpan's critique of a recent post of mine as well.
Bentpan 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Thats your comeback? You really are a Sad Sack jimt, I'd feel bad for you but you're so toxic and I'm just not that generous. BTW irregardless is considered a colloquial expression and its usage can be traced to the early 20th century, after 100 years of use, I think must would accept it as a "actual" word but in the future I will use the correct adverb 'regardless" so as not to offend your sensibilities regarding grammar
Bill 11 months, 2 weeks ago
What I would like to know is it discriminatory if I am not hired period. It's seem to me just cause I was in the military they have to hire me, or cause I am black or white, or a female, or a male or gay or handicap or a dog lover or a cat lover or I have long hair or short hair or I am a lousy golfer or a scratch golfer or cause I love my wife or I am from the North or South or I am a Obama fan or a Romney supporter. etc, etc, etc, The bottom line is if I am qualified hire me if I am not then do not hire me.
jimt 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Thatcher,
Time ran out on another thread, so here's my response. I don't think you are a "low informed voter." Far from it. That is why I was so sadly disappointed when you indicated that because "most" blacks oppose gay marriage it must not be a civil rights issue. When I showed that now "most" black support gay marriage, I get the usual b.s. response response from bedpan, that I "shopped" the internet until I found an article that backed my position. Facts bother and threaten people like bedpan, AFChief, and pest, that's why they truly conform to the definition of "low informed voter." They only take on information that buttresses their ignorance and prejudices, of which they have oodles.
Per the debate challenge; just how do you expect it to be "judged"? But perhaps more importantly, with the loss of my medical insurance at the end of the year, and perhaps forever until I qualify for medicare in mid-2016 (if the Republican Party hasn't ended it entirely before; afterall, who says health care is a "right," right? Is that not the Conservative/Libertarian argument?) a $1,000 is a lot of money for me now. So I'll have to pass.
Although, turning to a more serious matter, scientists have confirmed that the Andromeda Galaxy, which is at least twice the size of the Milky Way, is going to hit us dead center, totally destroying our home. At best we have four billion years left. So arguing politics and social policy seems kind of pointless anymore doesn't it?
clarabelle 11 months, 2 weeks ago
"MikeNC -..You will have to talk to Obama about all the death, slaughtering and suffering going on in Syria. When Libya's populace had the chance of a massacre to start at any time;
You have more BS than an outhouse - blaming Obama for all the worlds problems. If he would have gone into Syria with troops, you would have complained he was starting another needless war. BTW - the majority of Americans do not want us to get involved! You are the minority mikee - suck it up and stop crying!
clarabelle 11 months, 2 weeks ago
btw - the homosexuality problem will be a non issue in 10 years after all the old fart republicans die off
Thatcher 11 months, 2 weeks ago
jimt-- Thanks for the response. To me, it appears you missed the point I was originally trying to make: most black voters oppose gay marriage, even in North Carolina. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0509/Why-North-Carolina-banned-gay-marriage-video. Remember the danger of relying upon polls: proponents of gay marriage have always cited polls in their favor...which is why they put it on the ballot. Yet everytime, it is soundly defeated when actual votes are counted. Many black church members, as well as many white and latino church members, believe that homosexuality is a sin...because the Bible says it is. I agree with their view. However, as I have said many times here, other sins like greed, envy, sloth, anger affect us all...homosexual and heterosexual alike. There is no tier-system of sin in the Bible, from best to worst. Sin is sin, and it is fair to assume that many who voted for it are no less sinful than the sin they sought to oppose. Which is why I opposed Amendment 1 on religious grounds. I also opposed it on conservative grounds, since I believe tinkering with Constitutions can be a dangerous game and should only be used as a last resort. Gay marriage, to me, does not qualify for such action. Debate? OK, we can just debate here, and I promise to try my best to keep it civil. And the Adromeda Galaxy cannot destroy us, as shown in this NASA documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1eFdU.... Enjoy!
MikeNC 11 months, 2 weeks ago
clarabelle...My point went right over your head. One of the last things I want is our troops tied up in another war. I was not in favor of libya either. My point was 'politics'. Why those "Caring" words about why we MUST go into Libya and be on the "Rght side of History"...and why does this not apply to the ongoing slaughter in Syria?
Bill nailed it with "The bottom line is if I am qualified hire me if I am not then do not hire me. "
And jimt....Everything you state is hearsay. I say again that to compare any inequities that 'might' exist in the 3 % by-choice homosexual community to the Black civil rights movement is laughable....Mike
clarabelle 11 months, 2 weeks ago
MikeNC - No - your point is always the same - to bash the president.
Seems no matter what he does ...... the far right will cry and moan and find fault in the tiniest of cracks. And that will never change. Just sayin..........
MikeNC 11 months, 2 weeks ago
It's not about Obama clarabelle...he just happens to be the sitting president, so he kind of gets my brunt this time around; BUT... Most likely any other president would give the same rhetoric. My question is why? And my answer is 'politics' set up as it is. And there are plenty of reasons why we did what we did in Libya, but refuse to do so in Syria. It's all the pretty rhetoric of why we have to go kick butt and save the people in one instance and DAMN the people in another very similar instance which has become catastrophic to the people living, dying and being maimed over there....So it's not about me bashing Obama. Not this time at least....Mike