We'll Never Know

As of Tuesday, December 11, 2012

How did “patriotic fervor” and bitter resistance toward another Obama term evaporate on Election Day?

Maybe religion played a small role. Maybe Romney’s Massachusetts background failed to ignite people outside of New England. Maybe a Romney victory seemed a dead cinch.

Libertarians would crawl through broken glass for their cause, and tea party patriots would crawl across the Sahara Desert to save their country. Did Romney fail to connect with these deep sentiments?

The daunting challenge facing our Founding Fathers bound them closer than mere blood relations or political allies, as the last line of their Declaration of Independence reveals: “And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

Two things could prevent a person from pledging his life, fortune and sacred honor to Mitt Romney. Those two things might also prevent him from casting a ballot for Romney.

First, Romney changed his position on some very basic issues as his campaign moved from Massachusetts to the presidency.

As an example, changing your mind on abortion requires a basic change in spiritual values, which are slow to change in deeply convicted religious people such as Romney.

Second, the Republican establishment’s candidate spouting “tea party” slogans from time to time may have struck a dissonant chord with too many people.

The establishment prefers back-room deals with their liberal opposition rather than working with libertarian and tea party ideologues on core conservative principles.

We can speculate all day. But we may never know for sure whether it was too many tea party people or too many establishment Republicans that stayed home on Election Day.

Bob Mason

Pinebluff

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kzowens 5 months, 1 week ago

Actually, the bitterness towards Obama did not evaporate after election day. Any time there is a win/lose situation, the losers understandably are upset. However, in politics, if the losers get so angry that they cannot get over it and want to continue the battle, then they just do not understand democracy. The “majority” wins, and the “majority” did not want the “core conservative principles of the libertarian and tea party ideologues.” You have to wonder why religion should play any role at all in the election. Both sides are religious. Religion should not be a factor in American politics. The government is about working for people, not about deciding whether we live by morals as dictated by one radical group or another. It is doubtful whether Romney’s Massachusetts background was a political advantage. Why did the citizens there vote not for him?

Courseaire 5 months, 1 week ago

The result of the election was strictly due to the "giftees" out numbering the "libertarians" and "tea partiers" combined. Obama did a great selling job on the convincing all that they are in their predicament due to the "haves" and making them jealous and if elected again he’d take from the rich and give it to them. I forgot: "godblesspresidentoftheunitedstatesbarackobama"

skylinefirepest 5 months, 1 week ago

Absolutely correct, Courseaire, and now we have almost half the people living off of the labors of the other half...it can't continue despite what Jimmy Heim thinks.

kzowens 5 months, 1 week ago

So, C-- & Sfp are saying is:

"Even though our side lost, we still should decide how the country is run."

JD 5 months, 1 week ago

Didn't you hear, it's all the illegals fault...

packwilleat 5 months, 1 week ago

Ahh yes, the joys of democracy. The notion that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

dustyrhoades 5 months, 1 week ago

by dustyrhoades

Easygoing 5 months, 1 week ago

OK it's over, let's stop the ranting and get to work together

OldPilot 5 months, 1 week ago

packwilleat: What do you suggest, as opposed to democracy? A dictatorship, as long as you are in change? Just curious,

packwilleat 5 months, 1 week ago

Oldpilot ~ voluntaryism.

moonchild7 5 months, 1 week ago

When the WORKING POOR are no longer POOR because they are now the WORKING FOR A LIVING WAGE.....then and only then will things get better. The TAKERS have just about TAKEN it ALL. Start GIVING IT BACK, and start NOW! There is NO other solution. NONE.

nothingspecial 5 months, 1 week ago

MC7, your answer may point to a deficit in the area that controls executive functions. The answer has been around for almost 10 years now. Check the ACE Study (Adverse Childhood Experiences) and their effect on a majority of our ballooning social problems.

And Bob Mason, instead of trying to guess why I voted for Romney I would be much more fascinated by why you voted for the President. And your idea about persons changing their view about abortion is so awfully flawed. Technology and learning more about the actual procedure of abortion has led many to change their minds. What I have always wondered about is how progressives - those great compassionate thinkers have been able to justify such a barbaric form of birth control rather than compassionately working with girls to not become pregnant in the first place. Again, Democrats completely lack strategic thinking, except in terms of keeping their jobs.

moonchild7 5 months, 1 week ago

You know NOTHING, nothingspecial. The Conservative Evangelical Wackos are simply outnumbered and will continue to be outnumbered. Here's the problem: The RICH are sucking so much money from the poor and working poor that until it stops, the results will always be tragic. Our Government is having to subsidize companies like Walmart. They have to supply those companies own low wage employees with Food Stamps and Medicaid since these companies continue to under provide their hard working employees. The U.S. government doesn't MAKE THEM PROVIDE but they should. Until that stops and the RICH "Job Creators" pay a Living Wage and benefits nothing will change. The schools are failing. Parents are failing, Corporations are failing, the Congress if failing. It's theri ethics that have failed. They seem to have none. Changes must be made and soon and nothingspecial NOTHING you said is an answer to any of it.

Yukonjohn 5 months, 1 week ago

Bob, I voted for Gary Johnson, because that is the only person my gut would let me vote for. I could not/will not ever vote for Mitt Romney. He did not connect to me at all. I think Ron Paul has the correct answers for our country, but most Americans do not want liberty. They are terrified of it, I believe. In the last few weeks, l have determined for myself that l would be happy seeing the country RACING over the cliff. Sequestration cannot start quick enough. This is the only way we are going to get the President to stop, so let's get to it. It will cost me in taxes, but l am under the 250K group, so l will just pay and pay, and eventually when we are putting the pieces back together, maybe we won't have to pay so much.

packwilleat 5 months, 1 week ago

Yukon ~ I think it's time for a right-to-life bill. I don't remember signing a social contract to the government upon birth. Freedom is the ability to opt-out right?? Last time I checked we are a people with a government, not a government with people. The U.S.A was a a great idea, too bad the people have no idea.

Yukonjohn 5 months, 1 week ago

Agreed Pack, well said. Hope you have a great night and a good day tomorrow.

Courseaire 5 months, 1 week ago

MC7 - Here's the problem with America (maybe your son knows him): Deli Taxes

The owner of a small New York sandwich deli was being questioned by an IRS agent about his tax return. He had reported a net profit of $80,000 for the year.

"Why don't you people leave me alone?" the deli owner said. "I work like a dog, everyone in my family helps out, the place is only closed three days a year. And you want to know how I made $80,000?"

"It's not your income that bothers us," the agent said. "It's these travel deductions. You listed six trips to Florida for you and your wife."

"Oh, that," the owner said smiling. "It is a legitimate business expense because we also deliver."

moonchild7 5 months, 1 week ago

Your point? That one is not so funny Coureaire, you're off your game. Have all of those Christmas Parties taken away your humor and cleverness.

teufelhunden 5 months, 1 week ago

Get your coffee/tea MC7. Courseaire is always on his game.

Courseaire 5 months, 1 week ago

I wasn't trying to be funny; I was supporting SPUWS position and giving an example of of just one of many tax cheating small businessmen that is ruining America. It's not the RICH, but the middle class.

packwilleat 5 months, 1 week ago

MC7 ~ I understand your logic about Walmart employees and the rest of what you said. But all I can say is that life isn't fair, never has been never will be. No matter how many pieces of legislation are put in place. Should Walmart employees make $70k a year..... of course not. Heck as it stands now they probably make more than I do currently. If anything it provides an incentive for people to strive for something better. Imagine this for a second..... a world with no currency, no government, no anything. If you built your own home from scrap, and it turned out to be the most beautiful home for miles and miles around, and it put most of the rest of your neighbors homes to shame and they became jealous and demanded the same for them. Would you allow your neigbors to demand that you build homes for them, or would you spend your time teaching them how they could do it themselves??

moonchild7 5 months, 1 week ago

We must begin to "reward" workers for WORKING, no matter what they do. Of course those with less skill will not be paid the same as those who've 'bettered" themselves thru college, athletic skills, artistic skills, or maybe just plain "business savvy". Oh, don't forget INHERITANCE, too. Workers still must be RESPECTED no matter the work that they do and should be paid accordingly. That's what Minimum Wage was supposed to be about but it's now Antiquated. The Living Wage has to become the NORM. Then our Government won't be so over-burdened with people who are working but still need help in "getting by." The truth is that not everyone will "Better Themselves" but will still be out there working those minimum wage jobs. They shouldn't be penalized for that. "Life isn't fair"...so you say packwilleat and that of course is a well known truth. But the Union Movements back in the early 20th Century tried to remedy a lot of that and were VERY SUCCESSFUL. They helped create the Middle Class and now that they are dwindling in numbers so is the middle class. The Small Businessmen who cheat on their taxes are the reason America is failing? Really, Courseaire? Really? You've got to be kidding.....right?

packwilleat 5 months, 1 week ago

MC7 ~ I was talking with a coworker yesterday. I asked him if he had any plans for the holidays. He simply responded......"yeah, trying to keep the lights on." We haven't seen a pay increase since I've been here just over 5 years. We get paid crap and inflation has over run our pay grades. Inflation is the root of our problems in this country. We need to get serious about strengthening the purchasing power of our dollar and get rid of the Federal Reserve. We need to get back to sound and proven economic practices in this country before we end up in the history books with all the rest of the failed great nations.

Courseaire 5 months, 1 week ago

I provide the following link as proof of tax cheat'n businessmen (all of them):

http://www.thepilot.com/marketplace/users/southernpinesupperwestside/comments/?page=2

fugitiveguy 5 months, 1 week ago

Moon, do you think a person should be able to support a family of 4 working at McDonalds? I don't pretend to have all the answers but I am quite sure McDonalds (unless you're in mgmt) was never supposed to be a career.

packwilleat 5 months, 1 week ago

If McD's turned into a career path for all their employees, would we be willing to spend $10 for a happy meal?? Nope.

nothingspecial 5 months, 1 week ago

MC7, I'm asking that you be open minded in more deeply studying what you're commenting about. I'm sorry but you seem completely blind to the fact that some of your oft repeated ideological points may seem nice and utopian but have clearly and dramatically failed in numerous, high profile nation-level instances. And again, you don't think strategically. I ask that you think about what is needed to maintain a society where freedom as well as law and order are balanced - not just what will keep the screaming down. And merry Christmas and a happy new year too!

moonchild7 5 months, 1 week ago

I don't think "strategically?" You're off your rocker and haven't read a lot of my previous comments. I've been "on my own" since the age of 19 and have lived with "inflation" ever since also. I've run out of heating oil on very cold nites. I've had the electric turned off, the water turned off, gas turned off, no telephone, had to apply for Food Stamps twice but luckily only needed them for two months. What was going on in my life at the time? I was in college and working a part time job. My husband had a job making $2 an hour. It was rough, it was trying, it was an experience but we dealt with it and survived. Even in tough times a person can still make it.....given they make the right decisions. Mistakes? Learn from them. But the Government has to help to keep these huge corporations from fattening their bottom lines at the expense of human beings. My husband and I worked both private and public jobs during those days. Which were the best? The PUBLIC ONES. They paid good wages and had benefits. The corporate world needs to reciprocate and soon. They'll be going down with the ship also, if they don't. Liberty? I saw Lindsey Graham on tv talking about that subject when it comes to owning guns but at the same time they don't want people to be FREE in their own homes when it comes to their own personal privacy. Hypocrisy is also destroying us.

nothingspecial 5 months, 1 week ago

OK, I believe you are saying I am completely wrong to doubt you because you are someone who has "been there" and has worked with other folks who have been there and because you have looked into a little bit of all cultures, all things, you are very qualified to provide expert advice on the topic of solving our problems. Is that right? Using some of my Social Work clinical skills there. I think I understand in any case and will not needlessly argue my point anymore. Since in fact I am in the great company of a rational majority after witnessing that my beautiful county and my beautiful state safely voted Republican in November. My work for today is done, think I'll make some cookies or do some Christmas shopping.

Toda 5 months, 1 week ago

Moon Child is back ... how good is that? I have missed her opinions lately. The wealthy amongst us gets richer while the working class gets taxed to death. Can't afford life insurance....

packwilleat 5 months, 1 week ago

Toda ~ prove to me how the wealthy are not paying their "fair share" or are you simply advocating that they should have all their wealth stripped from them??

njc17 5 months, 1 week ago

Agnes and Jacob were you couple who lived in the valley all of their lives fell in love got married and farmed the valley their parents had farmed, lived a comfortable life and raised their children in the same atnosphere they themselves grew up in. As they grew old, young entrepenuremoved into the peaceful valley to escape the wilds of the big city and raise their children in the bucholic countryside safe from the dirt and grime they had been used to. But as time went on the 'city folk' decided that the surrounding farms were too smelly or the animals were too noisy, or the pace of country living was too slow, but bit by bit they began to transform the countryside into their idea of utopia, and began to force the farmers out, one by one. New roads and housing developments sprang up over night, shopping centers and convience stores dotted the landcape. Agnes and Jacob had lost the right to have a say in the new communities, lost their ability to farm to progress. All the generations of hard work were now disappearing to the new entitlement era. Does Agnes and Jacob have ant rights left? do they not deserve to have the life they grew up with and sustained for themselves?Do they not have the right to express their feelings and outrage over the demise of rural living?

Courseaire 5 months, 1 week ago

Thanks to eminent domain - No!

fugitiveguy 5 months, 1 week ago

"The wealthy amongst us gets richer while the working class gets taxed to death."

wealthy is a vague term, working class is a vague term, taxed to death is a vague statement, makes it difficult to discuss/debate. Was that the idea?

moonchild7 5 months, 1 week ago

I'll put my Social Work " Holistic Street" skills up against yours any day nothingspecial. My success rate helping those, (who for one reason or another had troubles and/or illnesses), to become better adjusted problem solvers is a rather impressive one. Then again that's me boasting about me but it is true, several other social workers and professionals told me so. They really didn't have to tell me though, I already knew it. Anyway, while NC followed the very disturbing, shameful, hypocritical and FREEDOM HATING Republican Party this past Nov., I'll hope for more N Carolinians to "see the light" by then and finally get rid of a lot of those crazy Republican legislators in Raleigh and Washington, DC. They are making America unsafe, uncaring and unbelievable. That is NOT the America that I know.

njc17 5 months, 1 week ago

Moonchild, you seem to have a highly inflated opinion of yourself. Success rate of what? Splving what?

The_AnonymusProfit 5 months, 1 week ago

Moon, the people of NC will see plenty of light over the next 4 years as good conservative principles are put in place for a long long time.

moonchild7 5 months, 1 week ago

A success rate of using my personal beliefs and experiences as an example to others and having themselves in turn become successful. My son is the BEST example that I have, of having had influence over a person's life and that person in turn becoming successful. I had many different successes as a Social worker also. Clients who could barely stay out of jail, until I became their Social Worker. I showed them how to COPE better and be responsible. I had clients who were "partially" institutionlized who became responsible and were then able to live independently. Of course I've also had many FAILURES. But I learned from them and moved on....to better things. That's what everyone should try to do. Find solutions to your problems instead of just sitting around stewing in them. So, njc17, Did Agnes and Jacob ever vote or Petition their government? Did they write to their CongressPersons about their troubles? Did they get others to help them? We all have RIGHTS but if you don't exercise them...well they might as well not exhist. Oh, Thanks Toda for the nice reflection. I've been very busy trying to get my "Rental" House fixed up to sell. Plus my son's coming home from NYC for Christmas. I'm trying to have things as nice as I can. Happy Holidays.

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