ID Is a Necessity

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Where will the tens of millions of dollars needed should this become law come from? Shall we take more money from our schools to solve a non-problem?

Why should hundreds of thousands of North Carolinians be denied their right to vote to keep tea partiers happy? Has anyone got a single case of a fraudulent vote that this proposed law would prevent? Anyone?

And, why do we need photo ID to be Americans? Thomas Jefferson never had one, and he did just fine as did many of the other founders.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Is your side suggesting that the invention of photography has caused voter fraud?

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

The original point was that democracy worked just fine In Jefferson's day. I don't see a change.

Amazed 2 years, 2 months ago

so no IDs are ok, but voter intimidation is....allllrighty then!

Guess you turn your head when they show the stories about ACORN as well.

How about, since using driver's licenses would be discriminatory to poor people, how about they also allow proof of identity by allowing them to show their food stamp card, or their Section 8 paperwork?

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

ACORN was investigated by prosecutors in several states and not a single criminal case resulted. Did you know that ACORN did not register a single voter anywhere? Probably not.

But voting is a constitutionally protected right. Why are you not in favor of protecting that right against arbitrary discrimination? Are you not a conservative?

Amazed 2 years, 2 months ago

From Wikipedia...(I know I know, you can't believe everything on wikipedia but this one actually links their facts to valid sites for fact checking) "Voter registration: ACORN has conducted large-scale voter registration drives since at least the 1980s,[24] focusing primarily on poor and minority citizens.[25][26] During the 2008 election season, ACORN gathered over 1.3 million voter registration forms in 21 states. Some of these registration forms were flagged by ACORN's internal auditors for review by election officials. It was estimated by Project Vote that 400,000 registrations collected by ACORN were ultimately rejected, the vast majority for being duplicate registrations submitted by citizens (which is also common at government voter registration services according to reports on the National Voter Registration Act by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission). An unknown number of registrations were fraudulent, but Project Vote estimated that only a few percent were based on past years and samples from some drives in 2008.[27] No official in states where voter registration drives were conducted have come forward with substantial numbers of fraudulent registrations. It was estimated by Project Vote that 450,000 of the registrations collected by ACORN represented first-time voters, while the remainder were address changes submitted by citizens updating their addresses.[27]

As required by law in most states, ACORN must submit all registration forms collected by its workers, including those flagged by ACORN as incomplete or suspicious. Fraudulent voter registrations are investigated at local, state, and federal levels, and have sometimes resulted in criminal convictions for ACORN employees. ACORN has fired employees for fraudulent registration practices and turned them over to authorities. As of 2006, ACORN was improving its fraud detection and reporting procedures, and cooperating with authorities in efforts to prosecute violators.[28][29][30][31]

continued

Amazed 2 years, 2 months ago

continued: Jeff Ordower, ACORN's Midwest Director, observed, "There is no scenario where those people on problematic cards would show up at the polls."[32][33] Of 26,513 registrations submitted by ACORN over a nine-month period in San Diego County, California, 4,655 were initially flagged, but 2,806 of those were later validated - a 7% error rate - compared to usually less than 5% for voter drives by other organizations, according to county officials.[34] In a case in Washington state where 7 temporary employees of ACORN were charged with submitting fraudulent voter registrations, ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again. According to the prosecutor, the misconduct was done "as an easy way to get paid [by ACORN], not as an attempt to influence the outcome of elections."[29][35] In August, 2009, a former ACORN field director in Las Vegas pled guilty to "conspiracy to commit the crime of compensation for registration of voters" in connection with a quota system for paid registration staff.[36] In November 2009, the former ACORN official, Christopher Edwards was sentenced to a year's probation and agreed to testify for prosecutors in charges against ACORN and against an ACORN regional director.[37]

In addition to registering voters directly, ACORN has worked to remove systemic obstacles to voter registration. In 2006, it brought a lawsuit in federal court in Ohio against the Ohio Secretary of State, at that time Ken Blackwell, and the Director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services. ACORN alleged that, during the period that included the 2004 United States election voting controversies, the defendants had committed multiple violations of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993. The district court dismissed the case, but that decision was reversed in 2008 by the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.[38] After extensive fact discovery in 2009, the parties agreed to a settlement, under which the defendants agreed to implement several measures to facilitate registration of low-income voters.[39][40][41] The Dayton Daily News characterized the settlement as "accepting the thrust of [ACORN's] complaint."[42]"

sounds like they did register a few voters to me....and paying settlements and dissolving the organization in its entirety doesn't lead me to believe they were an innocent do-gooder organization.

I think everyone should vote...but I'd like for you to cite for me someone or a group of someones that have said "if voter ids are required, I won't be able to vote and have my vote counted because I can't afford a $10 ID card?" I don't think this would keep any voters (and by voter, I mean a person that actually makes the effort to go vote) out of the polling places.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

ACORN has never registered a voter. Never. States and counties (depending on jurisdiction) do that. Had you actually read that extended entry, you would have seen that spelled out.

The law requires that anyone accepting a voter registration form submit it to the state or county. It does not matter if the person filling it out lists his name as Micky Mouse, ACORN had no choice but to send the form along to the government. So what are you accusing them of?

marathonman 2 years, 2 months ago

Surely you can not be serious concerning those votes from those who have never stood up to be counted! And the money will come from the savings from Welfare, Medicare Fraud, unemployment compensation excesses, firing all those go'mint workers who do nothing more than occupy a desk somewhere. And why do we need photo ID, you can't be serious! All have a photo ID and do not resent being asked to show it who have nothing to hide! In Jefferson's day, if you lied, you went into the gizmo in the public square. Humiliation was a great tool to use to cause folks to do the right thing. Liberals have no such feelings today!

Darkwing 2 years, 2 months ago

What money? Jim, you keep pushing that lie. But then, you are a democrat, why should I expect better?

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Sure makes it easy to be a Republican. On our side, we actually have to look up the facts before deciding.

Darkwing 2 years, 2 months ago

What facts? What money does it cost to tell poll workers to ask for ID? I see no evidence of democrats or other liberals actually considering facts before deciding. I do see you and other democrats being given facts and then seeing "nothing" in them.

fugitiveguy 2 years, 2 months ago

"Where will the tens of millions of dollars needed should this become law come from?"

Pinochio, Pinochio, where for art thou Pinochio?

fugitiveguy 2 years, 2 months ago

The money the Dems would spend to kill this would far and away dwarf the minimal cost it might cost to implement it, of that you can be sure.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

The Institute for Southern Studies in testimony at the NC assembly stated that voter photo ID would cost between 15 and 25 million dollars in the first three years. If you have better figures feel free to share them.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

The state board of elections did that and found over a million voters with no entry in the DMV database. Some number of them have moved or changed names, but they estimate that over a half-million of them have no photo ID. These are mostly poor people who vote Democrat. Reason enough to deny them a vote.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

No, they found 500,000 active voters who did not have entries in the DMV database. It turns out (to the surprise of tea partiers) that you don' t have to drive a car to exercise your right to vote.

Go find the reference yourself. Those of us who value evidence for our opinions have gotten fairly good at it.

M3rules 2 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, and 99% of them have an IPhone. Guess they would have to cut back on text messaging for a month to pay for a photo ID. But wait, they probably have a free Obama phone. What planet are originally from Mr. Heim?

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Ownership of an iPhone is not a right. Voting is. Why should you be able to hobble that right for no reason?

Darkwing 2 years, 2 months ago

Requiring them to show an ID they should already have does not deny them a vote. Their own failure to get an ID will if we ever adopt this measure, but if they can't be bothered to go to the DMV, I doubt they care enough to vote, either.

Darkwing 2 years, 2 months ago

Did they explain what that money would go for? If you're talking about a whole new ID separate from driver's license or non-driver state ID, which almost everybody has, and EVERYBODY of voting is SUPPOSED to have, and creating a whole new state agency, then I can see the costs. But If we just use the existing ID, it should have your address on it, which can be checked against your voter registration form, which they have right there. No new cost incurred. If you have changed address and not updated your ID, you get a provisional ballot. Or was that cost based on pulling a figure out of thin air to justify a stance against ID?

fugitiveguy 2 years, 2 months ago

"Since our founding in 1970 by veterans of the civil rights movement, the Institute for Southern Studies has established a national reputation as an essential resource for grassroots activists, community leaders, scholars, policy makers and others working to bring lasting social and economic change to the region."

I am shocked! A totally unbiased organization I am sure.

hotdiggity 2 years, 2 months ago

This is not even about the poor, old black. It is about the the future for the democrat/socalist party, and their new base, the illegal alien. That is why a photo ID is needed.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Illegal aliens cannot register to vote. Therefore they cannot vote at the polls.

teufelhunden 2 years, 2 months ago

hotdiggity...HOTDIGGITY!

eflat7 2 years, 2 months ago

I registered to vote at the DMV while renewing my license. If I can register there, how come they can't tie my picture in with it some how. They can, they just won't. It's not PC. We might hurt an illegal's feelings.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Is there some reason why they should? Can you come up with a single case of voter fraud at a North Carolina voting place? Just one would do. After all, millions of dollars are at stake here.

fugitiveguy 2 years, 2 months ago

Wow, this is the first time I have ever heard of a Democrat worried about wasting taxpayer money, with a 14.5 tril debt I wish it would catch on with the Washington Dems. We know the numbers are phony baloney but he is consistent.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

That's it? That's your argument for wasting millions of North Carolina dollars? No notice that Reagan tripled the national debt and Bush doubled it? And it's all Democrats fault? Really?

Darkwing 2 years, 2 months ago

Blame the president for the budget CONGRESS submits, yeah. And which party controlled congress during those years? Yes, it really is the democrats fault.

Ross 2 years, 2 months ago

give it a break already. republicans are just as bad if not worse.

don't you guys ever tire of all the 4th grade crap?

fugitiveguy 2 years, 2 months ago

Jim, since the shenanigans with Accorn in various locations across the country which you guys tried to poo poo we have a little bit of a trust issue with your party.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

ACORN was innocent of wrongdoing and was brought down with a fraudulent video. A sad day for American democracy.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

The video was a fake. It was edited severely to make it look like something it wasn't. New York prosecutors saw the whole video and labeled the effort a fraud. What's your evidence?

hotdiggity 2 years, 2 months ago

ACORN is innocent? Sort of like Charlie Rangel. Check out the web site Rotten ACORN.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

I prefer actual evidence collected by actual state prosecutors. They brought no charges after reviewing the evidence. What proof can you offer of illegality? How would photo ID at the polls correct that?

fugitiveguy 2 years, 2 months ago

"ACORN was innocent of wrongdoing and was brought down with a fraudulent video. A sad day for American democracy."

I don't think you are that dumb and I know most on here are not. We will never agree politically but if you really believe ACORN is on the up and up you are dillusional.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

ACORN was cleared of wrongdoing by every state investigating it. If you have evidence of wrongdoing, bring it out. Oh that's right, conservatives don't believe in legal niceties like evidence. The accusation is all it takes.

Amazed 2 years, 2 months ago

I did above (see my posts above)...ACORN is no more because of the fraud.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

ACORN is no more because of a hysterical reaction to a fake video and pearl clutching by Republicans who hate to see poor people voting.

M3rules 2 years, 2 months ago

The NPR group looks completely legit also, huh?

Amazed 2 years, 2 months ago

not innocent...here's the link to the above referenced article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associat...

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Oh, Wikipedia. I guess the case is ironclad. Let's not let any actual prosecutors give their results.

Amazed 2 years, 2 months ago

you can actually click on the highlighted words or number notations and it will send you to the source from which the information came...valid, accurate sources.

fugitiveguy 2 years, 2 months ago

"No notice that Reagan tripled the national debt and Bush doubled it? And it's all Democrats fault? Really?"

Well, Jim, I guess you are really chapped at Obama since his Feb deficit (a short month) surpassed the entire deficit for 2007. Its funny you failed to mention that yet you can each back a couple of decades for a Reagan reference. A history buff, are you?

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Republicans dig deep holes. The federal government needs to dramatically increase its spending to stop the hemorrhaging.

M3rules 2 years, 2 months ago

Just let the ones who cannot afford the photo ID card pay for it with their SNAP card.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Back to the "hate the poor" stuff again?

M3rules 2 years, 2 months ago

Not hating the poor Mr. Heim. Just not into continuing to take away the incentive to better themselves like your crowd of mindless dummycrats. Was impressed with the nicely dressed woman holding up the line in the grocery store the other night with her SNAP card purchases and stack of WIC coupons while continually text messaging someone on her Iphone. Your continued blind eye to such extremely common occurances is amazing.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

Check the testimony given to the state assembly. I'm only referencing it. I don't need to make up my own facts.

At the end of the day your side has no case and no evidence to support the need for photo ID. Only the drive to keep Democrats from voting keeps it alive.

fugitiveguy 2 years, 2 months ago

Jim, do you have any figures on what spanish interpreters at the DMV are costing the state? No, I didn't think so.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

How is that germane to the issue? Or do you feel the need to change the subject now that the whole photo ID movement is based on fraud?

DaveyNC 2 years, 2 months ago

Ugh, the topic that will not die. Leave it alone, already. The lines have been drawn in this debate; you are either a racist or a histrionic dingbat. Nothing settled. Move on.

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

The fact remains that hundreds of thousands of North Carolinians do not have photo IDs and get through life just fine. They want to vote and the Constitution guarantees them that right. Where do you get the authority to deny them that right? When did conservatives decide that voting should be restricted? Didn't you used to be the defenders of liberty? I guess that was the old conservatism.

Ross 2 years, 2 months ago

Don't say "old" to a republican - they are all at least 80 - and you know what happens next :)

M3rules 2 years, 2 months ago

Keep thinking that way Ross. Might want to take a deeper look into the demographics of the Republican Party. If your thought process was correct it should scare all of you libs. If we all die, who is going to pay for all of your social programs? Remember, we have all of the money that your crowd wants to confiscate.

teufelhunden 2 years, 2 months ago

How about mug shots? HAHA

teufelhunden 2 years, 2 months ago

Of course, I'm kidding.

There aren't law breakers voting are there? Or are there?

JimHeim 2 years, 2 months ago

And just how will photo ID at the polls fix that?

teufelhunden 2 years, 2 months ago

Nothing gets past you does it? Geez

hotdiggity 2 years, 2 months ago

Need evidence of ACORN voting fraud and convictions? Well check out dailycaller.com 11-23-2010. Seems like the ACORN worker received a ten month prison sentence.

marathonman 2 years, 2 months ago

JimHeim - try this one on for size; only those who own property should be allowed to vote. Only those who actually put something back into society should be allowed to vote. Anyone who lives off of the the rest of us should not be allowed to have any say in who represents us and how they vote. Unless and until they become productive members of society. It makes me ill to read that you believe ACORN to not have been guilty of voter fraud. They were disgraced, discredited and are now out of business. But, not unlike the Phoenix, they are rising from the ashes with other names. We must have controls over those whose intent is less than honorable. Voter ID is the beginning.

blake 2 years, 2 months ago

Mr Heim: "The fact remains that hundreds of thousands of North Carolinians do not have photo IDs and get through life just fine. They want to vote and the Constitution guarantees them that right."

There is no constitutional right to vote in a federal election guaranteed by the Constitution. It does state the right to vote cannot be denied due to sex, race, color,or age so long as they are 18.
There are very defined factors which cannot be used to deny voting rights but showing a valid ID is not there.

specialK 2 years, 2 months ago

Marathonman is my new hero......

specialK 2 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, who says only crazy old lonely people are the only ones who post on here? ;) Finally someone with some sense. Forget statistics and logistics, just break it down to basic facts!

ID Is a Necessity

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