‘Obamanomics’ Rises Up Again
- Print print this page
- Discuss 91 comments, Blog about
Advertisement
Obama alleges his Keynesian jobs bill will create jobs and is generally supported by economists. Wrong on both counts!
Remember that Obama’s short-term, targeted stimulus, directed by the government, failed to prevent unemployment from exceeding 8 percent, the upper limit he promised in 2008.
His antiquated Keynesian tactic failed again, as it had failed for FDR, for Japan and for Western Europe. Kennedy and Reagan proved that unleashing the private sector by cutting taxes is how to create jobs and grow the economy.
Obama alleges his plan to add 1.9 million jobs had gained broad support from anonymous economists. But the consensus of 34 economists in a Bloomberg survey estimated that about 288,000 temporary jobs could be produced, at the cost of about $1.5 million for each potential job.
Even more damaging to the basic tenets of “Obamanomics” is the criticism by the 2011 Nobel Laureates in Economics, Thomas J. Sargent and Christopher A. Sims. The award was given for research on the core economic issue dividing liberal and conservative politicians, “cause and effect in the macroeconomy.”
Professor Sargent dismisses Obama’s allegations of “widespread agreement in favor of big fiscal stimulus.
Obama should have been told that there are respectable reasons for doubting that fiscal stimulus packages promote prosperity.”
In 2009, he said the rationale for Obama’s stimulus package “is what we have learned in the past 60 years of macroeconomic research.”
It’s fair to say that the jobs bill is devoid of any valid economic rationale.
The real rationale is political.
The fallacy of stimulus demands rejection of the bill, the outcome Obama needs for his campaign slogans.
But can Obama convince the electorate that he’s the economic expert and Nobel Laureates are wrong?
Wes May
Pinehurst
More like this story
Advertisement
Comments
SH59 1 year, 4 months ago
The president isn't the only one making decisions so whoever is in the office will still have to deal with the egos and posturing of the senate and house. No one seems to be interested in helping the people no matter what they say.
coffecreme 1 year, 4 months ago
blah blah blah
DaveyNC 1 year, 4 months ago
Keynes provides economic cover for what politicians really like to do, which is toss money around for the purpose of buying votes. The politicians always forget the other side of Keynes which is that when the economy is strong, taxes should be raised and spending cut. That spending cut just never seems to happen.
The reason that the stimulus didn't work is that a) it was "targeted"; which is to say, used as political payoff to preferred constituencies such as "green" companies, union based companies and more specifically to the state and local governments of states that went for Obama and the Dems. And, b) the relative size of government and government spending was already too high. Couldn't get the needed bang for the buck. Had W been able to restrain himself and used his veto pen every once in a while, it might have worked.
JimHeim 1 year, 4 months ago
Obama's policies created more jobs in one year than Bush did in eight. We need more, but the president is on the right track.
Courseaire 1 year, 4 months ago
The only jobs Potus created were his Czars, Bush created many more jobs in the military alone.
marathonman 1 year, 4 months ago
What do you socialist/progressives drink/eat that causes you to have chronic myopia. Statistics can and are manipulated to serve the purpose of those who quote them.
Obama has created no jobs with anything he has proposed or created....er, what did he propose or create that was positive!?!? Nothing! Healthcare!? Oh, those massive Federal Government jobs..... When the money runs out, he proposes to print more. Soon, no value to either the jobs or the money. But then, I am kicking a dead horse hoping he will get up and run to the finish. One term, thank God, Thank God Almighty!
JER 1 year, 4 months ago
Interesting that Courseaire quotes "many more jobs in the military alone" and then marathonman says "Oh, those massive Federal Government jobs". The right doesn't really mind "government jobs" so long as they are the right kind.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
Some food for thought.
Remember when our mothers told us the best things in life were free? I always assumed she was talking about a hug or a good job sweetie!
What I assume she was not talking about was anything that had to do with money.
So lets look at a small success story in today's world of tragedy. Walking around the state of Wisconsin and Governor Scott Walker who for a moment was all over national news as he attempted to take on the Unions of Wisconsin. Wisconsin elected in 2010 a Republican Governor and Elected Republican Majorities to both houses of the state legislature in hopes that they could fix years and years of failed democrat/socialist programs that had bankrupted the state.
Gov. Walker realized that the big problems facing the state was the government health care program and the government pension, along with taxes and union rights. Gov. Walker created laws that now require public sector employees to pay a portion of their health care and pensions. Something that private sector employees have ALWAYS had to do. Walker also cut funding to many programs including the school systems.
Now the backlash. Gov walker eliminated the collective bargaining rights of Unions for the healthcare and pension areas. He believed that if the unions could bargain in these areas that the laws he had created would never do any good. The Union machines and the democrat machine has gone to town with a cataclysmic story line that Gov Walker is destroying the state of Wisconsin.
But lets look at whats really going on....Yes Gov Walker did slash funding and made public employees contribute, however the counties in Wisconsin that are utilizing the tools that Walker has created are seeing a MONUMENTAL influx of cash into their coffers due to the steps Walker and the republican congress took. Counties are able to invest this new cash back into programs that walker had defunded and lower taxes such as property taxes.
This is just a little success story of common sense politics working to improve the lives of the people of the state of Wisconsin. The question is, will the Union who has had its power stripped away, allow these laws to continue, A recall has begun on Gov Walker. It is my hope that the people of Wisconsin will stand up for a Governor who has placed the state of Wisconsin back on the right track.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
Governor Walker like Governor Christie are both governing in a manner that is best for the overall fiscal future of their respective states which you would think would garner bipartisan support. They are governing knowning much of what they do while critically important is politically unpopular with powerful groups like labor unions. In other words they are doing what is right for their states without fear or concern of not getting re-elected. Wouldn't it be nice if a president would do the same. Just do what is good for the country, not what will most likely get him 4 more years.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
Amen fugitiveguy, Both Govs have an understanding that elected office is a civic responsibility to the people of their state and not to the government apparatus
JER 1 year, 4 months ago
marathonman: "One term, thank God. Thank God Almighty". So I'll assume that it was the "liberal God" that got President Obama elected in 2008 but it will be the "conservative God" that will keep him from being re-elected in 2012. How, exactly, does that work? Are there liberals and conservatives in your great beyond that are overseen by your favorite god? This would probably explain the expression: oh MY god (aka: omg). Evidently, everybody has their own god that sanctions all their beliefs.
justmyopinion 1 year, 4 months ago
JimHeim says "Obama's policies created more jobs in one year than Bush did in eight. We need more, but the president is on the right track."
Son, fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life.
JimHeim 1 year, 4 months ago
justmyopinion, the same can be said of ignorance.
justmyopinion 1 year, 4 months ago
Huh?? You really arent very bright are you!!
skylinefirepest 1 year, 4 months ago
Justmyopinion...don't think you'll be able to coax a logical thought out of a man who thinks that the country will be in great shape if we just re-elect the Liar in Chief and allow him to spend a few trrrrillion more dollars of money that we are borrowing from China! Once in a while Jim lapses and a true thought, not a Democrat talking point, escapes his mind and then he sounds almost normal.
sgmartin 1 year, 4 months ago
Imagine all these economic experts here in Moore County? Aren't we all lucky that we have people who have all the answers - and no doubt that their opinion is fact?
skylinefirepest 1 year, 4 months ago
So SG, I guess you really approve of borrowing all that money from China and leaving the bill for your great-grandchildren?? If I read your last comment correctly I reckon that, in your household, there's no need for a budget? You see something you want and simply put it on the old credit card?? You don't have to be an economic wizard to see that the Democrats have put us into a really bad position and have NO plans to get us out of it other than "taxing the rich and making them pay their fair share" when they already provide about eighty percent of the income of the country???
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
The current fiscal situation is not the republicans fault nor the democrats fault. Its your fault. Its my fault. Its OUR fault. Because we only take interest in the current 20 minute talking point on the 6 o'clock news and dont take the time to actually do anything. The citizenry of this country can fix the issues. Heres a great idea...How about if the congress and the president dont balance the budget, reduce the deficit and allow buisnesses to create jobs then we toss them out. Or we just dont pay our taxes, either way....
Sounds loony dont it? An active citizenry I wonder where we could find one of those. Maybe Wal Mart?
As to the job quote. No obama has not created more jobs then bush did. Bush sat over record low unemployment rates for most of his presidency as well as a large economic boom. Now you can say it was a bubble.. and it had to burst. So who created the bubble/? One of GWs greatest legacy will be the creation of the TARP laws. Imagine... A republican realizing the need for regulation. Also GW attempted but failed to reform freddie and fannie. He was blocked by a democrat controlled congress.
I have a test for all of you. Instead of posting something in response to an article. Wait. Then, listen. Then attempt to understand the context of the article. Or better yet. Stop thinking that what you know is true. If there is one thing I have learned in my short 27 years of existence its that I no less and less every year about more and more. The more you ask questions the more you learn and the more questions you get to ask.
skylinefirepest 1 year, 4 months ago
Wow, trike kid, your educated responses just amaze me! I'm so impressed!! "our economics is down the toilet"!! That, you certainly got correct but it was the first two years of O and the boys that put us there with the trillions spent on failed government programs. Oh, did you get your used Honda in the clunker program, perhaps??
JER 1 year, 4 months ago
skylinefirepest: Have you sent any money to China recently? If so, then YOU are part of the problem. If not, then you are a liar. PS: Harley's are made in the USA.
teufelhunden 1 year, 4 months ago
Nice.
jamjam 1 year, 4 months ago
hey Harley man, you can't teach the stupid better ways of thinking.
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
"Remember that Obama’s short-term, targeted stimulus, directed by the government, failed to prevent unemployment from exceeding 8 percent, the upper limit he promised in 2008."
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
How do you fix the china problem?
Set a tariff payed for by china for any incoming goods sold in our country, that tariff is equal to the tariffs charged by china on our goods.
Set regulations and incentives for companies to move industry back to the united states.
Make smart trade deals that give americans the advantage and not the chicoms.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4A0RuXhnQA
Toda, I know this is long but just check out a few minutes of this and maybe you will gain some insight on how we got where we are. There are quite a few legitimate grounds on which to criticize former President Bush, this ain't one of them. Laying the blame for the housing crisis at the feet of Bush and the Republicans is a long held, widely spread liberal falsehood. My guess is most of the left knows this but also relies on the fact that most are too lazy or entrenched in their beliefs to see what actually went on. The Democrats in this video are a disgrace but many are still in place. I would love to hear yours as well as DR's, Jim Heims and the rest of the faithful on all or any part of this video.
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
Anonypus, you are so so right, in that you; "no less and less." In fact, you "NO" so little, it's time for you to get a real education. And there's the ANSWER. Our libraries, colleges, and universities are still open for all who want to attend. Either Public or Private. Get an Education in America and NOTHING can STOP you, but if you don't then the outlook is not very good. I've said it over and over, my son worked three, sometimes four jobs while attending college to get his Masters Degree in NYC. And at the end of those three years not only did he have his degree but it was paid for, since he paid CASH every time he registered for a class. And it wasn't easy, because for a short time he was homeless, living with friends and sleeping on the subways. EVERYTHING is possible in this world. The only thing stopping you from being successful is YOU!
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
Moonchild. I suggest first you look at my profile. I attended GWU for my undergrad and Hillsdale for my grad. My suggestion to you is to follow your own advice.
All your post has done is made you look just like you always look. critical with no solutions.
This is why no one takes anything you say seriously. The only reason I am responding at all is because you are the most recent poster.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
It seems Mitt is poised to take Iowa, showing once again that the republican party is just as daft and the democrat party.
Nezumi 1 year, 4 months ago
TAP - some businesses are already relocating out of China and moving production to other countries - (for example Vietnam) due to slipping competitive advantage and other domestic factors. Slapping tariffs on Chinese exports will result in businesses (many who are American) simply moving to another low labor cost country. In some cases they could do so without any down time since many transnational corporations, and their contracted manufacturers, have multiple manufacturing locations anyway.
I agree with your sentiment however, and I believe we must get manufacturing going again in the US to support a middle-class.
JER 1 year, 4 months ago
justpassingby (3hours and 25 mins ago): Shame on me for pointing out that Americans purchasing goods from China instead of products made in the US is part of the reason why we are in the shape we are in. Yep, shame on me!!! If I stop pointing it out it will become a non-fact. Once again, you want to place the blame on someone else instead of facing the fact that the American people are the problem. The 1% that moved the jobs off shore to bolster their bottom lines so their stockholders can make big returns and their management can collect a big bonus. The middle class that wanted to live like the wealthy by doing it on credit. The dregs of society that demand that the rest of us provide for them. And finally, the officials that we elect who look at their pubic service as a pathway to selling their books, obtaining power and achieving financial security. Yes, indeed, WE THE PEOPLE , through greed, have made this mess and I'm to blame for pointing it out.
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
Why is suggesting for everyone to get an education NOT considered advise, anonypus? Including you...what if anything have you done or are you doing to improve this world? Are you even employed? My accomplishments stand by themselves and are many: I also continue to provide a positive example to many who are confused and perhaps saddened by todays world. My example consists of having a positive, helpful, and hardworking resume that inspires many who know me...also those who don't quite know me. Tell me also why I am not taken seriously anonypus? Could it be because you are lying or that you don't want to admit the "POWEFUL MESSAGE" I have been writing about has somehow made a difference for the better? What is it? Tell me.
Nezumi 1 year, 4 months ago
I've met very few people who are anti-Chinese products who actually follow-through and don't shop at Wal-Mart, Target, Staples, etc. but there are a few out there.
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
Fugitive Guy ~ Try this on for size...Bush promoted home ownership. Home loans to those who could lest afford refinancing or purchases. His policy opened doors for companies like CountryWide Financial to fleece the unsuspecting public. It also provided a segway for Hedgefunds to exploit default swaps as opposed to security backed loans through the Federal Government.
Home Ownership and President Bush by PicturePusher
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
"In 2002 President Bush gave a speech outlining the future plan to lower the credit requirements for home loans. "Civil Rights" organizations alleged discrimination was the reason minorities couldn't qualify for a home loan. Behind the scenes, Zionists saw an opportunity to expand the role of government and stepped in to take control of what's left of the Free Market. The result: by 2009 there were 2 million foreclosures. There will be an estimated 4-5 million more by 2012. This enormous debt has now been passed onto YOU, the tax payer."
Home mortgages explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=wASFRavojBY
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
The 'ole Obama can't have a vacation after working endlessly and tirelessly(in fact so much the "media" or FOX NEWS complains he's around too much) is just too old and too bogus an excuse to critisize him anymore jpb. Try and find something else but it's getting way too late at this point and with the sorry crowd of republicans that are running for the nomination to have any hope in finding any is just about gone. LAME, LAMER and LAMEST.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
OK so my first post was obviously to simple. In response. The way to circumvent companies going to say vietnam etc is 1 or 2 ways.
an over all tarriff on all goods coming into the USA that use under payed workers or slave labor to create the goods or
an embargo on all goods created in the same way.
Now to your response that I no is coming.
The plain fact is china needs our markets more then we need their products. Also to go a step further. You get other countries such as the UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and Mexico to do the same thing. By eliminating the markets that these goods can be sold in creates a situation were by the seller must adhear to what the buyer is demanding.
As to moonchilds inept response to her first inept response.
Yes I am employed.
What have I done to improve society? I got a job, I pay taxes, I raise a good christian family. Those accomplishments stand on their own as do my families.
MoonChild I have yet to see you give any sound advice on here yet. Even DR has some moments of sanity.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
3 posts I want to illuminate
JER 3 hours, 1 minute ago justpassingby (3hours and 25 mins ago): Shame on me for pointing out that Americans purchasing goods from China instead of products made in the US is part of the reason why we are in the shape we are in. Yep, shame on me!!! If I stop pointing it out it will become a non-fact. Once again, you want to place the blame on someone else instead of facing the fact that the American people are the problem. The 1% that moved the jobs off shore to bolster their bottom lines so their stockholders can make big returns and their management can collect a big bonus. The middle class that wanted to live like the wealthy by doing it on credit. The dregs of society that demand that the rest of us provide for them. And finally, the officials that we elect who look at their pubic service as a pathway to selling their books, obtaining power and achieving financial security. Yes, indeed, WE THE PEOPLE , through greed, have made this mess and I'm to blame for pointing it out.
Well said and right on the money.
Toda 1 hour, 29 minutes ago Fugitive Guy ~ Try this on for size...Bush promoted home ownership. Home loans to those who could lest afford refinancing or purchases. His policy opened doors for companies like CountryWide Financial to fleece the unsuspecting public. It also provided a segway for Hedgefunds to exploit default swaps as opposed to security backed loans through the Federal Government.
While the housing crisis happened under the bush watch. Reform asked for by Bush was ignored by a democrat controlled congress
The deregulation that made this boom possible happened under the Clinton watch and a democrat controlled congress.
1 man did not make this mess. Stop blaming Bush he did a good job.
Also, Zionists? Conspiracy much? Eh Furur? Comments like that are way out of line today. The jewish community is held sacred by GOD and therefore held sacred by man.
moonchild7 45 minutes ago The 'ole Obama can't have a vacation after working endlessly and tirelessly(in fact so much the "media" or FOX NEWS complains he's around too much) is just too old and too bogus an excuse to critisize him anymore jpb. Try and find something else but it's getting way too late at this point and with the sorry crowd of republicans that are running for the nomination to have any hope in finding any is just about gone. LAME, LAMER and LAMEST.
Moonchild when has obama Actually worked? I have his itinerary for the last month in my lap right now( yes it becomes public record) And I see alot of golf, alot of leisure, alot of downtime, O here is 1 meeting with the JCS. Yea hes really breakin a sweat. Bush worked 18 hours a day. And he worked in crawford.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
Toda, just getting back in so I will give your videos a look. However, I don't see your response to the one I posted. I really would like to get your take and as I said the rest of those who tend to lean to the left. I have posted it several times, never a comment from the left. It leaves me to wonder is it so bad to be unspinable. Are they so wrapped up in party politics that they cannot admit they may have been wrong on an issue.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
What happened to all the posts on Steve Bousers column?
Courseaire 1 year, 4 months ago
Bouser column comments - I believe The Pilot took them down so as not to embarrass a few of the commenter’s by their inappropriate rhetoric.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
Courseaire, thats what I figured. I wonder why didn't they just remove the offensive posts as they have done in the past. I guess its just as well.
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
Anonypus....you are quite ignorant. What's the difference between a "good christian" and a "good muslim".....................anonypus? I did not like Bush because of the 2000 election fiasco and because of his politics; yes I voted for Al Gore who was so much more qualified than Bush. THINGS would have been so diifferent. Oh well, And you also lie about Bushes' vacations and "work schedule". BUSH NEVER WORKED a day in his life! Even as a Community Organizer, President Obama has a more credible WORK RECORD than BUSH ever had.
Nezumi 1 year, 4 months ago
TAP - unfortunately it would be arbitrary, unenforceable without creating a trade war with most of the developing world, and I believe even our closest trading partners would never support such a measure.
geoffcutler 1 year, 4 months ago
Anonypus....you are quite ignorant. What's the difference between a "good christian" and a "good muslim".....................anonypus? I did not like Bush because of the 2000 election fiasco and because of his politics; yes I voted for Al Gore who was so much more qualified than Bush.
Moon...you make me laugh. Happy New Year!
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
moonchild7 2 hours, 38 minutes ago Anonypus....you are quite ignorant. What's the difference between a "good christian" and a "good muslim".....................anonypus? I did not like Bush because of the 2000 election fiasco and because of his politics; yes I voted for Al Gore who was so much more qualified than Bush. THINGS would have been so diifferent. Oh well, And you also lie about Bushes' vacations and "work schedule". BUSH NEVER WORKED a day in his life! Even as a Community Organizer, President Obama has a more credible WORK RECORD than BUSH ever had.
Hmm Well I dont forcibly remove the genitalia of my wife or daughter. I don't make them cover their entire bodies in blankets for fear of another man checking out my wifes rear. I dont think infadels should be killed. Would you like anymore examples? *to the muslim community I respect your constitutional right to practice your religion. Just not the parts that infringe on the rights of your women or fellow citizen.)
Ok second part. What you said about bush not working...Yea you have no basis for that your just mad and cussing at your computer screen oblivious to what I said, I imagine your cheeks are red and your mumbling under your breath about what a spoiled idiot punk I am. (am I clairvoiyent here?_
As to the election of 2000. I mean yall just have to let it go... You lost the first time. Then the second time. Then the third time. You tried every trick you could think of and you still lost. O Al Gore did not invent the internet. He is solely responsible for man made global warming and is infact a closet republican.
TO obamas work record. Things to do before I die.
Read Karl Marx. Check Benefit from white people. Check. Go to college learn communism. Check. Associate with Terrorists. Check. Attend church that teachers black supremecy. Check Pretend Im Black. Check Become US President by using socilitory groups. Check Destroy America....Almost there.
Kinda funny, I laughed when I wrote it. I stopped laughing when I realized most of it was true.
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
You're still ignorant and now you're also a predjudiced idiot. "Good Muslims" are NO DIFFERENT than "GOOD CHRISTIANS"... there are just very few of either bunch left in this world. From what I've read in your comments I can't see you in the latter bunch and so I'm NOT SURE how someone like you with your "IDEAS/OPINIONS" is a "GOOD ANYTHING". Not only have you had difficulty in Reading/Understanding college text books...I don't think you're capable of understanding the TEACHINGS of JESUS either. Geoff, I make lots of people laugh. Laughter is good for the SOUL. Thanks. George Bush was a FAILURE at everything he tried to do. Can you even read Anonypus? Try it sometime, you might learn something.
Nezumi 1 year, 4 months ago
If Obama is a dedicated Marxist you have nothing to worry about; we're still way early in the capitalist stage. The socialist stage has to come first before communism - according to Marx' formula. I don't think he could get all that done even in 2 terms :)
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
"George Bush was a FAILURE at everything he tried to do"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7831460.stm
Not quite, and to think some moron said "George Bush doesn't care about black people". Moon, please share your thoughts on this article. "NOT FOX NEWS" If time permits also check out the video posted by me roughly 11 hrs ago, it kind of disproves the leftist assertion that Bush caused the housing collapse. Be the first to attempt to spin it in a postive light for the left, no one else on the left has had the nuggets to try, they just act like it isn't there.
skylinefirepest 1 year, 4 months ago
Moonie...once again, when faced with failure, the lefties resort to name calling! Bush served in the Air Force and Obama served, oh wait, he didn't serve his country. Well maybe Clinton served, oh wait, he didn't either! My bad! Seems to me Bush did a pretty good job after 9-11...that was when, if you recall, the Democrats were standing behind the President and standing up for the country! Then, when faced with the realization that 9-11 was making the Republicans look pretty good, what did the Dems do?? Oh yeah, they started fouling things up so as to try to make Bush look bad. In the years since 9-11 I have turned totally against the Democrat party! Why, you might ask? Because they put the party ahead of the country and are still doing it! Obamacare could not stand the light of day, so despite Obama saying that he was going to put the bills up for public display before they were voted on...didn't happen, did it? Like so many of the bills passed in the last two years the Dems pushed them through on the sheer force of numbers, without public inspection, and in many cases without public approval. Why don't you tell us what Obama has done in his lifetime other than cultivate the approval of anti-American hoodlums? And while you're at it please tell me what working jobs Obama has ever held. Now the current incompetent administration is spending us into the poorhouse and all y'all can do is whine about "what would YOU do". Well, I'd cut spending first thing...easily done. Cut redundant programs, cut redundant agencies, let American business take us back out of the doldrums, loosen restrictions on business and let capitalism work as it has for the length of our history...that's a start, now isn't it?? Now JER, yes, I have shopped at WalMart lately so indirectly I have sent money to China...but as opposed to what the Prez is doing, I have never BORROWED money from China. Course, our Prez is not only borrowing money from China but then he's turning right around again and sending some of that same borrowed money back to China as foreign aid. Now when you talk about STUPID, that certainly should qualify as STUPID!! And it's true that Harleys are made in America...I'm just not sure that the boy rides one! Almost all of the Harley riders that I know sure ain't Liberals!!
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7814704.stm
More interesting reading that debunks the tired old "its all Bush's fault" regarding the economic collapse. Doesn't quite square with the lefts version of things. "NOT FOX NEWS". Esp interested in the thoughts of Moon, Jim Heim, DR, Toda and all others who hate all things Bush and anyone else from the left that has a hard time ever finding any fault with their party or President Obama.
geoffcutler 1 year, 4 months ago
Nezumi...we're a lot closer than you think to the degredation and collapse of our capitalist system. What stage of Socialism we will assume at this point is unclear. Four more years of Obama, while unlikely, could help tip the scales in favor of everything our founders thought would happen, but hoped would not.
Moon...whatever... you're a hoot!
Nezumi 1 year, 4 months ago
Geoff - I don't disagree about potential collapse, although short-term I'm more concerned about Italy/Spain/Ireland default as a cause for global meltdown rather than domestic financial issues here, real though they may be.
Whether socialism would emerge as a form of government after a financial meltdown - hard to say - I don't think it was part of Marx' formula - but then again none of those who successfully started revolution in his name stuck to the formula anyway :)
Back to the original content of the posting, there are Nobel laureates on both sides of the Keynesian topic (see today's NY Times), past and present.
geoffcutler 1 year, 4 months ago
Nezumi...will do.
JER 1 year, 4 months ago
skylinefirepest: The US borrows money from China for the same reason Willie Sutton robbed banks.......that's where the money is.
Courseaire 1 year, 4 months ago
wdd101st - The Pilot removed the Bouser comments because it was an embarrassment to them. Their own writers were spewing things that were foul & in complete violation of their own rules, so they deleted all the comments.
BigE 1 year, 4 months ago
I agree with sgmartin. It is quite impressive that we have so many economic (and constitutional) scholars here in Moore County. Yes, my tongue is in my cheek. I am not an economist but this very bright guy is. Yes he is a liberal, but his math makes sense. How exactly do you reduce unemployment when you eliminate teachers and police and figher fighters and road construction crews and employees of... (wait for it...) the defense industry?! Austerity does not help in a down economy. It does in a thriving economy. Unemployment is a short term problem and the deficit is a long term problem. They each need to be addressed with separate, coordinated solutions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/opinion/keynes-was-right.html?src=recg
dustyrhoades 1 year, 4 months ago
wdd101st - The Pilot removed the Bouser comments because it was an embarrassment to them. Their own writers were spewing things that were foul & in complete violation of their own rules, so they deleted all the comments.
Another one who thinks the Internet makes them psychic.
You realize that if had just been "their own writers" they could have simply deleted those comments, right? Right?
Once again, the right wingers refuse to take responsibility for their own part in creating the tone here.
Courseaire 1 year, 4 months ago
An example of one of the Pilot's writers comments in Bouser's column: "I'll say the same thing I say to geoff, Bentpan: you spread your pious disapproval evenly, and I'll regard it as something more than crap. But when that scumbag jpd can call me "Stupid' and "village idiot" over and over without a word from you, you can take your sermon, roll it up real tight, and cram it up your nether regions. When you tut-tutting over alleged "incivility" is only directed at one side, it's not a principle; it's an attempt to silence me, and you can FOAD. Go decipher that for the people, you sanctimonious cowering twat."
dustyrhoades 1 year, 4 months ago
Note what I was reacting to. And you don't mention any of the bile jpb was spewing at me upthread, as he always does ("irrelevant, over-the-hill, wished-he-had-been-someone dusty") .but then, you never do. Just like you're silent when MikeNC calls me an "America Hater" or when Anonymous-Profit was dropping his own F-bombs right and left.
Which is exactly my point. Thanks for proving it, yet again.
Courseaire 1 year, 4 months ago
Oh so not true! I took a sample of a few frequent posters here (both left & right) over the month of December and posted this:
"Just to determine who the biggest name-caller is, I went back & looked at comments for the last month & these are the names used by: 1. JimHeim - Vassdud & Firepest 2. JER - Wingnuts & assdud 3. IamHarleyman - idiot, moron, dumb, bigot, assdude & ignorant 4. Dusty - Wingnut, liar, bigot, teahadist, cowardly scumbag, FOAD, racist, troll, dumbass, POS, jackhole & twat 5. Fugitiveguy - Clean Bill 6. Jimt - Clean Bill 7. Skylinefirepest - Tricycle & Honda guy, "Courseaire - that was a good one", idiot, Liar-in-Chief & liar 8. Justpassingby - clueless, "intellectual liberal" & liar 9. The_AnonymusProfit - the Fword a few times & trike boy Judge for yourself who are the abusers!"
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
"fugitiveguy 22 hours, 14 minutes ago"
It's not a matter of Democrats vs Republicans, rather a matter of where can the American People find an honest politician? Frankly, I don't like either party. Once they get to Washington, they all become one in the same ~ bought out!
We all have first hand knowledge of what transpired in '08 and '09 with the mortgage crisis. Mortgage companies took the lead for fast loans, hired appraisers, and easy mortgage money. I can't say all that transpired was a direct result of Bushes many speeches about government backed mortgages. What did happen was loan companies were hell bent on servicing loan applications. Closing a deal and then packaging the loads to sell to the highest bidder for the paper. Paper called derivatives which were uninsured default swaps. Default swaps are not insured under full faith and credit of the US government. So when the Hedge funds wanted their money back at par, there was no value to the paper. Not insured....here or in England. That was the problem.
Courseaire 1 year, 4 months ago
Very well stated Toda!
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
The_AnonymusProfit 16 hours, 58 minutes ago
"The deregulation that made this boom possible happened under the Clinton watch and a democrat controlled congress." Post a link please....Bush was promoting mortgage refinancing in 2004. Watch the video and listen to his words. That wasn't Clinton speaking. Again, was his veto pen broken?
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
DR-"the post" was over the top and out of line. There was no justification for it, although you continue to try. I honestly thought you would look at it the next day and take it down. Instead you doubled down. You made a mistake, we all make them, it takes a big man to admit it.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
Toda, "what does the video show". Please be concise.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
"It's not a matter of Democrats vs Republicans,"
How I wish it were true. However when you have one party perpetuating an outright lie that all Bush and the Republicans did was undo regulations allowing the collapse when the video CLEARLY shows just the opposite is true. How do you justify the behavior of the Democrats in the video? BTW, I applaud you for at least taking the time to look at it and comment. Other than you, I have never been able to get anyone of our usual Democrat/liberal contingent to even acknowledge its existence.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
"Reform asked for by Bush was ignored by a democrat controlled congress"
Worse than that, they didn't ignore it, as the video shows they prevented reform "with malice". My guess is some of these crooks, incompetents and political hacks still hold office.
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
2-13-08: WSJ (Marketwatch): "President Bush signed a $168 Billion economic stimulus package on Wed. that will extend rebates to U.S. taxpayers, give tax brakes to businesses and make more expensive mortgages available through the government and government sponsored mortgage-finance companies." Said Bush, "We have come together on a single mission and that is to put the peoples interests first." WHAT A HUGE PILE OF S**T !!!!!!!!!! Sorry TEAPOTTERS, you lose again. George was "lucky" to get out when he did, if he had still been President after his "wonderful but we're sinking" Sept 2008, "All HANDS ON DECK WITH ALL THE MONEY WE CAN PRINT" speech we'd have a $50 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT !!!!!!!! I am just so SICK of the LIES you TEAPOTTERS continue to spew. Dusty is a writer as well as an attorney. His speech is "flowerful" and "expressive"...it's also supposed to be FREE. He hasn't THREATENED anyone the way so many of you OTHERS have THREATENED some of us here on the LEFT. Also, very upset that the comments on Mr. Bouser's column were taken down, since again those TEAPOTTERS only recourse seems to be THREATS of BODILY HARM to those of us who absolutely DO NOT agree with them.
Courseaire 1 year, 4 months ago
I don't recall any threats of bodily harm in the Bouser's comments - you must have been reading something else. If you could provide examples, I'd interested. Also the whole Mortgage problem goes back to Carter.
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
You know Courseaire, I didn't "keep" a list of the THREATS. I've been writing on here for about a year and a half and some of the THREATS came from responders who THE PILOT had to BAN from commenting anymore. One "notorious" commentor was "Prometheus". He liked to send me PERSONAL comments to my email. I will say that I also have had APOLOGIES sent to my email because of inapropriate comments made here on The Pilot about me. Threats have been spewed Courseaire...leave it at that. THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
Ok this is what I want yall to do. I want you to stop piecing together little bits of fact and fiction to improve your claims that BUSH has destroyed this country. You no what I think. And this is really gonna burn most of you. You do not have pride nor care for your country. You are the same as the hippies in the sixties burning draft cards and sticking flowers in guns. America is free because we die for freedom. Bush defended this country. Period. Obama has not. And I don't want to hear anything more on it until you can show me point blank. Black and white. In HUGE detail that is BLINDING with truth that Obama has done ANYTHING positive for this country. SOCIALISTIC legislation does not count by the way.
If you want to rail MY education, ask your self. How is it that I understand that EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WOLRD, who has tried SOCIALISM, FASCISM, COMMUNISM, has failed? How is it that I understand that Kensyian Economics is a joke that only works in the annals of marxist utopia? O wait I no, because I payed attention in class. Something you all have never done. And I am not just talking to the liberals and the democrats here, Im talking to any republican, libertarian, and social conservative who thinks that any of this would work.
Im sick and tired of hearing about it. It hasnt worked. It wont work. Give it up. Nothing is free and im not going to give you a hand out just cause your lazy, ignorant, or selfish. I have earned everything I have in my life. Good and Bad. I am sucessful beacuse the American system allows me to be sucessfull, something no other system EVER has allowed people to be. If you dont like it then leave. Germany, France, Greece, they love your ideas. Austerity my ass.
GROW UP!
skylinefirepest 1 year, 4 months ago
Moonie...I don't recall reading a SINGLE threat on any of the Pilot blogs. I think whatever you sniffed in the sixties burned out your brain! Suppose, when you spot one of these so-called "threats" you let us know??
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
"I am just so SICK of the LIES you TEAPOTTERS continue to spew."
Name one lie with proof of said lie and proof that it was said by a conservative or tea party member. Also I don't suppose you could get around to checking out a few minutes of the video I posted yesterday and tell us your take on it. People like you when faced with unpleasant facts seem to act like you are unaware of them. You are completely blinded by your partisanship.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
I've been on here a long time and I cannot recall when any poster has threatened another poster with bodily harm. Another of many figments of a fertile imagination.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
"He liked to send me PERSONAL comments to my email."
How did he get your email?
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
There's NO FICTION Anonypus to the FACTS I quoted from the WSJ and from Georgie himself. I LIVED the 60's Anonypus so don't talk about them like you know anything about them because you DON'T. I lived them from NYC to Washington, DC and saw more, good&bad, from 1960 to 1969 then you could ever DREAM of living. STOP being such a KNOW NOTHING know-it-all. Didn't SNIFF anything, skylinefirepest, in the 60's or the 70's for that matter. Had other "experiences" that very few of you would have survived and I use them for reference and for the FACT BASED comments that I make. I've earned everything I have too, Anonypus, so stop with the sanctimonious BS. It's beginning to wear thin. I also believe you haven't looked very hard at our form of Government lately ANONYPUS, to realize that the SOCIALIST parts work VERY well and have for quite sometime. Your head is still in the sand but maybe you need to keep it there awhile longer...soon it will be filled.
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
You didn't know, fugitiveguy, that we can "write" to one another thru The Pilot...without giving out each others email address? Please don't start. Please.
skylinefirepest 1 year, 4 months ago
Moonie, apparently you don't have a very good memory. In a past blog I told you that i was in the service while you were out mooning around on the streets with your hippie buds. I didn't have any use for them then, ( as they were happy to take the benefits of this great country without any bother about paying for them ) and I don't care for the old hippies now! You can sing your sanctimonious song about how bad this country is ( along with the usual culprits in these blogs ) but I DEFY YOU TO FIND A BETTER COUNTRY ANYWHERE ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET!!! That goes for any of you, JER, Jimt, Dusty, Harley, Viper ( if you're really back and not ashamed to show your face ). Lay it out there, people, because this country has spent more money, rendered more aid, lost more lives for the good of the planet than any other country on earth!!
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
I refuted some of Moons latest schlock yesterday, of course she is too closed minded to have a look see. I think she would have a severe reaction if she had to give GWB credit for something.
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
"fugitiveguy 3 hours, 1 minute ago Toda, "what does the video show". Please be concise."
The video is like a sermon on Sunday Morning, it's what you come away with and how you relate to the context.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
Sigh, Moonchild is a product of america, what can we say? Nothing cause it is our fault.
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
fugitiveguy 52 minutes ago..."if she had to give GWB credit for something." Two wars that cost the taxpayers over a billion a month perhaps?
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
Nothing I've said has rendered a HATEFUL attitude toward America. This is the country of my birth. My family has spilled a lot of blood, sweat and tears, to make it better. So have I. My attitude is that WE CAN ALWAYS DO BETTER. There is a sad and despicable history in this country regarding, Predjudice, War-Mongering, Sexism, Classwarfare, and Corporate Greed (amongst others). But that's the way we on the LEFT tend to look at things; that there can always be improvements and change...whereas those on the RIGHT just want things IRRADICATED, KILLED, or MUZZLED. FREE SPEECH is actually the thing you guys HATE most. The schlock comes from the right, skylinefirepest. The improvemnets that our country has seen in the last 50 yrs are in no comparrison to anything else. Positive Social Change beats all else and yes there were some Republicans who helped foster those changes. I admire them. There were some Democrats who were against those changes and I think very little of them. My best friend is a Republican and we have interesting conversations but I admire her because she is one of those rare Liberal Rebublicans who agrees with the needed social changes. We tend to disagree about the "money spending" though. If any of you have anything else to say to me, say it now because I'll be on my way to NYC early in the morning for New Years Eve. It'll be nice to be around a group of very Liberal thinkers for a change.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
"what does the video show".
Toda, I was actually asking what your take regarding the video I posted.
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
fugitiveguy 2 hours, 57 minutes ago "It's not a matter of Democrats vs Republicans,"
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
..."if she had to give GWB credit for something."
I was referring to her earlier claim that Bush was a failure in everything he tried to do. I posted a link to an article from the BBC to refute that nonsense. Plenty of room to criticize President Bush however when I see over the top nonsense I cannot help but respond. I should know better by now but its just like picking a scab or popping a pimple.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
toda, no disrespect intended. Let me help you out. The video clearly shows Republicans attempting warning of impending financial disaster, clammoring for addtional regulation and oversight. The video clearly shows Democrats, some very prominent standing in the way, even attacking the regulators. Yes, it was 2004. 3-4 full years before the collapse. Of course if you believe the rhetoric the Republicans were all about deregulation. This is irrefutable proof that just the opposite was happening. An attempt to spin this is laughable. Everything is not about Bush. He was a fiscal nightmare, he was limp on illegal immigration, he got it wrong on the Dubai ports deal. I have no problem criticizing Bush, sometimes the criticisms are flat out false.
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
"fugitiveguy 13 minutes ago" no disrespect noted.
"Of course if you believe the rhetoric the Republicans were all about deregulation.", they were all about deregulation my friend. They being elected representatives in Washington. Think about this fact: Hedge fund brokers can earn as much as a million dollars a day without one dime of investment on their part. It doesn't make any difference which party is in office or has control of the House or Senate; they are all part of the problem and not part of the solution.
I'm not attempting to spin anything...the same problems with regulation still exists under POSTUS'O. The Justice Department has no laws to charge those criminals who are manipulating the markets. Who makes the laws? Congress of course. Who is bought out by PAC's? Congress.
End of that story.
Nezumi 1 year, 4 months ago
Have a good trip to NYC, MC7. I share the view, counter to those who would say "if you don't like it get out", rather, stay and do what you can to improve the country.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
"Toda, I was actually asking what your take regarding the video I posted."
Still waiting? perhaps someone else would like to take a stab at it.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
Thanks, courseaire, I had no idea.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
I think this is why people stop posting here. Because nothing ever gets accomplished.
justmyopinion 1 year, 4 months ago
ToDoNothing- 2004 ?? Are pretending to be stupid practicing for your State Senate seat or are you just trying to impress JER, MC7, JimHeim and etc.... Bush didn't originate the housing loan / economic disaster. Why not start your investigation around 1992 instead of 2004. You will find there is a lot more to the story
moonchild7 1 year, 4 months ago
Thanks Nezumi and I hope everyone also has a wonderful New Years Eve. I'm looking very forward to 2012 and all of the POSITIVE things that are going occur. Just one more thing about George though. I think that when asked about "What bothered him the most as President" and he answered "Kanye West saying I didn't care about black people" shows such a vapid disregard for the suffering of the victims of Katrina, 9/11, the two WARZ, and all of his FAILED policies, that put more and more people on the streets and out of work, that there's just nothing decent about that man. That's my "parting shot" regarding George and my "New Years Resolution" will be to try to not mention him ever again. And Anonypus, people stop posting here because their "facts" are proven to be incorrect, their opionions won't hold up, or maybe they just have better things to do. I like a GOOD argument every now and then....no matter what. See ya next year!
teufelhunden 1 year, 4 months ago
MC7-I hope you are successful.
Anyway, Happy New Year to all.
The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 4 months ago
Moonchild I think I just have to have coffee with you. I really have never seen such a self proclaimed genious is so many areas. My email is Olric152@gmail.com please contact me and ill buy you coffee while you unravel the mysteries of the universe to me. Mainly how you no so much more then the historians about GWB,
Toda 1 year, 4 months ago
"fugitiveguy 5 hours, 26 minutes ago "Toda, I was actually asking what your take regarding the video I posted." Still waiting? perhaps someone else would like to take a stab at it."
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
Toda, what were the Republicans in the video saying. This reminds me of when the Fonz had to say he was wrong and just couldn't say it. C'mon, I'm not a dentist you know.
fugitiveguy 1 year, 4 months ago
Kanye West is an idiot and I hear he likes fish sticks.