More Guns in More Places - Thanks to Your Legislature

Sunday, December 4, 2011

Here is some extra holiday advice you will need this year, thanks to the General Assembly.

It's probably not a good idea to argue with a stranger over a parking space at a state park or confront a reckless cyclist on your local greenway. They might have a loaded handgun hidden in their belt.

It is legal as of Thursday, thanks to the General Assembly, to carry loaded handguns in state parks and most local recreation areas.

Your local government officials can adopt an ordinance to make you keep the gun in your car at certain playgrounds and athletic fields, but the assumption in the state law now is that you can take your gun to any park you want, whether children are there or not.

That was just one of the troubling provisions in a startlingly broad rewrite of state gun laws that the General Assembly passed this summer with far less public attention and scrutiny than the legislation deserved.

Much of the debate was over the expansion of the so-called Castle Doctrine that allows you to use deadly force if someone is breaking into your home. The bill expanded your "castle" to include your car and workplace and removes language in the law that requires people to have a reasonable belief that the intruder intends to hurt them.

Gun safety advocates were understandably concerned about the move toward a shoot-first policy, but it is now the law.

There are plenty of other troubling aspects in the new, weaker gun laws, maybe most notably a provision that forces North Carolina to honor concealed weapons permits from all other states, regardless of how weak they are.

One of the requirements for a permit in North Carolina is attendance at a state-approved training and safety course. But a reporter for Business Week recently described his experience getting a concealed carry permit from Florida even though he is not a resident of the state and took his safety course online.

If one state's laws are too strict, simply find another state and your permit will be valid in North Carolina too.

There's more, like cutting in half the time a local sheriff's office has to issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon and allowing court personnel to carry guns into courthouses.

The group North Carolinians Against Gun Violence is having some success working with local governments to convince them to pass the ordinances banning guns from some city playgrounds, and even that is upsetting the hard-core gun advocates.

The Smithfield City Council recently voted to keep guns out of local recreational facilities like swimming pools and athletic fields that are narrowly defined in the law.

Grass Roots North Carolina's President Paul Valone thinks that is a "huge problem," telling The Smithfield Herald, "I can take my kid on a picnic, but as soon as he wants me to push him on a swing, I'd be violating the law."

You'd think the way to handle that problem would be to ban guns from picnic areas in city parks, but folks like Valone want to have their guns near the swing set, and he says he is planning a lawsuit to challenge that part of the Smithfield ordinance.

Gun safety advocates say that as troubling as the new gun law is, even more extreme proposals were discussed in the General Assembly this session that didn't pass. The House, for example, passed a bill to allow people to take loaded handguns into restaurants that serve alcohol.

The Senate didn't take up that proposal, so you don't have to worry yet that the person you bump into at Applebee's is carry a loaded handgun, but don't rest too easy. Lawmakers will be back in Raleigh several times before this two-year term is over. And given their track record so far, it's hard to have much faith that common sense will prevail very often.

More loaded guns in more places seems likely to be one of the legacies of this General Assembly.

Chris Fitzsimon is executive director of N.C. Policy Watch. Contact him at chris@ncpolicywatch.com.

More like this story

Yukonjohn 1 year, 5 months ago

Chris, as you will find there also, there will be LESS crime with more guns. With people legally carrying their weapons, there will be hopefully some cases where they shoot and kill criminals trying to injure society, and thugs will start thinking twice before they committ their crimes!! Good work NC Assembly.

MikeNC 1 year, 5 months ago

"The Senate didn't take up that proposal, so you don't have to worry yet that the person you bump into at Applebee's is carry a loaded handgun"

You wanna bet? There are plenty of concealed loaded guns there and all the other places you mention and plenty of places you do not mention. They are being carried illegally. Many times by people who would stick that gun in yours or anyones face to take the measly amount of money to pay for that Applebee's burger and fries just eaten. Watch the news and observe which citizens carrying guns are the problem. NC laws are very restrictive to where law abiding permit holding citizens may carry. Hopefully our legislators continue to enact such legislation. It makes you and the children you speak of much safer....Mike

DaveyNC 1 year, 5 months ago

"It's probably not a good idea to argue with a stranger over a parking space at a state park or confront a reckless cyclist on your local greenway. They might have a loaded handgun hidden in their belt."

Um, new law or not, this could happen. You know, it's the ones that do this without proper licensing that you have to worry about. This whole column is borderline hysterical, as if the mere presence of a handgun and children in the same park guarantees an attack.

skylinefirepest 1 year, 5 months ago

Honda boy...once again you run off at the mouth without the facts behind you. What do you have against your fellow law abiding citizens carrying guns?? Tell us, trike kid, what it is that makes you not trust your fellow friends and neighbors who have been background checked, been trained, and certified to carry by the state and government that you so love?? You know, nobody told you that you had to carry...that's your own perogative. But don't presume to tell me and other law abiding people that we can't have firearms because you don't happen to like them! You don't want them? Don't buy them! Crime happens often enough, even in the Sandhills, that you SHOULD do a little quaking in your boots if you didn't have your head stuck in the sand. It's your choice to protect yourself and your family from crime with a firearm, and it's your choice to simply wait for it to go away and then call the cops to come clean up the blood and take a report. Then when you have answered those questions please tell us what Fitz said that was TRUE! He has a track record of stretching his opinions to try to make them the truth. Tell me why you wouldn't want to accept permits from other states...we accept their drivers' licenses and you can do a whale of a lot more damage with a three thousand pound car than you can with a gun ( especially a gun that is only carried for self defense ) and, in fact we seem to kill and maim a lot more citizens with cars than we do with guns.

dustyrhoades 1 year, 5 months ago

Thanks to the 'if ballots don't work bullets will" rhetoric of the far right lunatics, I'm actually glad I can carry my gun more places.

geoffcutler 1 year, 5 months ago

I've never been around gun owners or shooting guns in my life without safety discussions each and every time. And that doesn't matter whether the people are long time gun owners or novices. It's always the same. Safety first and always. I bring this up because of Mr. Fttzsimon's repeated use of the term,"Gun Safety Advocates." Nobody is generally safer with guns than gun owners themselves. These supposed "Gun Safety Advocates" are more likely those who would take away our Constitutional right to bear arms. A silly article.

The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 5 months ago

This dietribe about guns is so typical of the left and liberals who don't want their citizens armed because deep down they fear free people. The plain truth is this matter is as follows.

A law abiding citizen goes to the sheriff's office to take out a concealed hand gun permit. He goes through the proper channels and only carries the gun where the law permits him or her to do so.

A person who is a criminal buys a gun on the black market and takes the gun were ever he or she sees fit.

It is a universal truth.

Gun control does not make us safer. It makes us less safe by taking away our ability to defend ourselves against would be assailants. This is true anywhere. You can not argue this. Criminals commit crimes. A criminal is not going to walk into the "Applebees" with the intention of robbing it and stop to ponder whether he should bring in his gun because it is illegal. The train of thought required to think that this would ever happen is beyond absurd. I am truly proud of my state government for finally passing a law that actually makes sense and is in the spirit of the constitution.

skylinefirepest 1 year, 5 months ago

I'm actually glad that Dusty can carry in more places, too. It should worry him though that Jimt seems to think that there are threats ( ? ) being thrown about on these blogs. I don't know that Dusty really needs to worry about Conservatives, though. If the current administration stays in much longer he may not be able to afford bullets!!

Yukonjohn 1 year, 5 months ago

We have gone a step further here in Alaska. One does not need a permit to conceal carry. Everyone can carry concealed. Well, that is, except those that cannot carry or even possess a gun legally. They are going to carry ANYWAY!! I know we all remember the saying, when they make guns illegal, only criminals will have guns. It could not be more true than today. Our God given rights (2nd Amendment) gives us the right to own weapons. Ones that could even be used to overthrow a tyranical government. While I do not think we are there, who knows, someday we could be. Just remember, an armed society is a polite society!!

stephen 1 year, 5 months ago

Time to rewrite history even if it is current news, right Dusty? Your statement about if the ballot doesn't work, bullets will doesn't apply to the Conservative movement. It applies to the Progressive moment. This is just theory, look at Occupy Wallstreet, what the union thugs have been doing, etc. If a person wants to know what the left is doing, listen to what they're accusing the right of doing. This isn't an opinion, is is backed up fact. Just look at what is happening now...

The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 5 months ago

Case in point. United Kingdom. Our lovely brothers from across the pond. They live in a disarmed society. Not even the cops have guns. A armed man takes over a bank in central London and holds hostages. Eventually the british military shoots the person but not before he shoots several hostages. The police can not do anything because they only have billy clubs...........You think im joking? No this is actually true.

dustyrhoades 1 year, 5 months ago

Your statement about if the ballot doesn't work, bullets will doesn't apply to the Conservative movement.

It's a quote from Joyce Kaufman, a Conservative radio host and former Chief of Staff to Tea Party congressman Allen West.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/forget-palin-heres-some-real-violent-rhetoric-from-radio-host-if-ballots-dont-work-bullets-will/

Massive FAIL, Stephen, but thanks for playing.

Zoey 1 year, 5 months ago

Gun owners and CCP holders might want to famliarize themselves with the revisions...

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/PDF/H650v6.pdf

skylinefirepest 1 year, 5 months ago

Hey Dusty...because you repeated it you took it as your words even though you used quotation marks. Sorry, but he shouldn't get a "fail" for that. We all do it frequently and sometimes even use quotes that we don't remember where they originated but you can't jump on him for his comment. ( Well, you CAN, but you SHOULDN'T! )

dustyrhoades 1 year, 5 months ago

I'll jump on people for slandering progressives, which is what he did by attributing the well-known and widely reported words of a conservative nut to the progressive movement.

Sorry, FAIL it is,and FAIL it stays.

It's the far right who we need to fear violence from. No progressive has ever e-mailed me saying I needed to be hanged for my views on the Iraq war, and no progressive's ever posted here predicting I'd die in 2011 and that people would celebrate. Right wingers have done both of these.

sandman10 1 year, 5 months ago

Lets take a poll.

When is the last time that a Legally Concealed Carry Permit individial was charged and convicted of any gun related crime?

When was anyone charged with a crime that was carrying any gun and used it in any criminal fashion?

Just askin'

And by the way... Mr. Fitzsimon, I'd encourage you to take a concealed carry class, it may enlighten you. If you did, you would learn that regardless of the state of issue, you are REQUIRED BY LAW to follow the states laws that YOU ARE IN. For example, Virginia and North Carolina accept reciprocity from each other. In NC you must identify yourself to an officer but in Virginia you do not, Howevery, A Virginia CCP person while in NC must identify himself. Please everyone realize that the CCP instructors and carries ARE THE ONES obeying the law.

sdsorrentino 1 year, 5 months ago

Oh, Chris Fitzsimon of the NC Policy Watch, how sad it must be to be you. You try hard to give the appearance of neutrality, but your loaded words and just plain foolishness shine through anyway. It must be sad to be so far Left that you can’t even maintain some sort of civility towards your political opposition.

For the uninitiated, NC Policy Watch is a far (FAR) Left organization that advocates for every single “progressive” policy you could name. The Left keeps singing the “Power to the People” song, but it absolutely clear that they have no such goal in mind. Putting a gun in the hands of a law abiding citizen is the ultimate form of power to the people. A gun in the hand of the decent, honest citizen means he or she need not fear any man. A gun in the hands of average people means that the rich and powerful, whether private citizen or government agent, can never push those people around. Yet the Left never once has advocated arms to for the citizens. That alone should tell you where the Left actually stands. They want you disarmed and helpless. Rapists want you disarmed and helpless. Robbers want you disarmed and helpless. Murderers want you disarmed and helpless. And the Left, in this case Chris Fitszimon of NC Policy Watch, wants you disarmed and helpless. I would strongly suggest that you consider the company Chris keeps when he advocates citizen disarmament.

Let’s examine Chris’s use of loaded words to try, however clumsily, to cloak his contempt for the honest citizen bearing arms. He continually calls gun ban organizations like North Carolinians against Gun Violence (NCGV) “Gun Safety” organizations. That’s a laugh. Gun Safety is taught by people who instruct others in safe gun handling techniques. The NRA teaches gun safety and so do many others. Gun Safety is mostly a matter of learning to apply Jeff Cooper’s 4 Rules. 1. Treat all firearms as if they were loaded. 2. Don’t point a gun at anything you are unwilling to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and you’ve made the decision to fire. 4. Know your target and everything beyond it. I challenge anyone to find me any time that NCGV has ever taught anyone a hands-on firearm safety class. Their idea of firearms safety is to make it as difficult and as expensive as possible to obtain a firearm. Perhaps they have some reason to want you disarmed and helpless. Perhaps it is their own safety that they are trying to secure.

sdsorrentino 1 year, 5 months ago

Chris also tries to call our new expanded “Castle” law a “shoot-first policy.” He never bothers to describe what the law actually says. Our new Castle law says that if someone is in your home, “forcibly and unlawfully,” you can presume that you are in immediate danger of life or serious bodily injury. This only makes sense. If someone enters forcibly and unlawfully, what are you supposed to think? Does Chris imagine that we should ask the intruder what his intentions are? Or does Chris simply not care? Does he wish to protect the life of the intruder even at the cost of your life?

Our Castle law extends that provision to your car and your workplace. Does Chris think that we should meekly allow ourselves to be killed just because we happen to be in our cars or places of business rather than at home? Does he imagine that Christian Relief workers enter homes, cars, and workplaces “forcibly and unlawfully” in the course of their duties? Is he worried that we will shoot these Christian Relief workers? Or is he again more concerned with the lives of the criminals than with your life?

Chris also calls people like me, Paul Valone, and thousands of gun owners, “hard-core gun advocates.” Notice how he never refers to us as “gun rights” activists. You see, Chris believes that we don’t have a right to Bear arms. He’s probably not too sure we have the right to Keep arms either, but he’s kept quiet about that part of the Second Amendment.

What’s particularly amusing is this statement. “You'd think the way to handle that problem would be to ban guns from picnic areas in city parks, but folks like Valone want to have their guns near the swing set,” You’d never know from this Op-Ed that Chris fancied himself a stand –up comic. Paul Valone wants to be able to push his child on the swing set without putting his gun in his car. Chris contends that all Paul needs to be perfectly safe from robbers, murderers, and kidnappers is for Smithfield to put up a sign. Chris, we’re not laughing with you, we’re laughing AT you. Once again, Chris pretends that safety consists of avoiding guns. He never seems to understand that when criminals come calling, they bring the gun with them. Please Chris, explain how would I avoid that gun? And why can’t I meet that violence with my own gun?

sdsorrentino 1 year, 5 months ago

Chris also glosses over the fact that Smithfield has passed a law that does not comport with the State law. Smithfield’s law will be challenged in court because they have banned concealed carry in places that the State law does not allow them to ban guns. Of course, we don’t think that localities should ban firearms anywhere, because “gun free” really means “disarmed victim.” Cities and Towns that follow the law exactly, while not doing what we want, will not get sued. Recently my Town, Garner, passed a law banning firearms in all the places allowed by law. I fought it every step of the way. But both our Town lawyer and the Chief of Police were very careful not to overstep their authority and will not face any legal action at all. That’s the way it works. People who follow the law do not suffer consequences, people, like Smithfield, Winston-Salem, Kernersville, and Greenville, who break State law, will face the courts. They will lose, and they will pay. The people of those towns should make it clear to their leaders that spending time and money defending an illegal local ordinance is wasting the people’s resources. Every dollar that goes to paying a lawyer to argue a losing court battle is another dollar that doesn’t go towards fixing streets and bridges, and paying the salaries of city workers. Do these towns and cities have money to waste in this economy?

I could go on and on about Chris and his biased and ignorant article, but I think I’ve illustrated enough of his rhetoric to show you the contempt he holds you, the law abiding citizen, in. He doesn’t care if you have the means to defend yourself from criminals. He doesn’t care if you get robbed, raped, kidnapped, or murdered. He doesn’t care about your rights. He wants to disarm you in public and probably at home too. It’s time to tell people like Chris to go back to their ivory towers and stop advocating for policies that will put decent people at risk. It’s time to call Chris on his attempt to take away your rights in any way he can. It’s time to tell Chris that you see right through his act, and you see the statist agenda at the center of everything he advocates. It’s time to tell Chris that you are an adult, free, and paying your own way in life. It’s your body, and your choice. It’s time for him to butt out of your life.

FightFireWithFire 1 year, 5 months ago

Dustyrhoads: "Thanks to the 'if ballots don't work bullets will" rhetoric of the far right lunatics, I'm actually glad I can carry my gun more places."

I agree. Someday those of us that carry legally will be the ones that do the protecting of the sheeple.

Stay safe, Dusty. Oh, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!! ;)

geoffcutler 1 year, 5 months ago

sdsorrentino...well said!

The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 5 months ago

Sdsorrentino Mega dittos. so very eloquent. I suspect your post shuts down this blog. Anyone who would attempt to argue with what you just said is simply clown shoes.

By Ed's Gun shop on US-1 teaches gun saftey to any who would like to take the class. It is informative and you will learn about guns, their operation, and how to store them safely. Everyone should take this class.

sgmartin 1 year, 5 months ago

Please someone alert my when someone legally carrying a gun saves someone in the line of fire outside of a war zone. That argument is just getting tired. We sure are a gun loving society.

dogboy 1 year, 5 months ago

Once upon a time I would have never considered carrying a gun. But as Dylan said," times they are a changin". Road rage, home invasions, abductions in Walmart parking lots, car jackings and the moral breakdown of society has caused me to become a legitimate CCP holder. So to all you bad guys out there who like to harm the older population beware, this senior citizen will be packin'

skylinefirepest 1 year, 5 months ago

sd...extremely well said! You correctly elaborated on my comment that Chris could not be trusted to tell the truth. He is not interested in gun safety...he want to make all guns illegal...wants only the government and the police to have firearms, therefore creating a Police State!! And remember, you can't trust the loonie left! The Californie Leftie who shot a kid in his swimming pool because he was "scared"? Rosie, who ranted and raved about firearms but had an armed personal bodyguard? The Leftie politicians with their anti-gun attitudes and their rent-a-cops? What the Left wants you to do is dis-arm yourself so that they won't be bothered by lawful self defense. Oh, and Dusty, you're wrong again...you used the quotation without attributing it to anyone therefore taking it as your own...YOUR FAIL, not his! Stephen was correctly assuming that it was your statement. But hey, if you don't believe me ask the proofreaders at the Pilot!!

fugitiveguy 1 year, 5 months ago

"Please someone alert my when someone legally carrying a gun saves someone in the line of fire outside of a war zone."

I figure you must be joking with the above line but in case you weren't just google "intruder shot" for many current examples then get back to us.

skylinefirepest 1 year, 5 months ago

sgmartin, you are getting tiresome. Check your facts ( FBI Uniform Crime Statistics for the latest year, is a start for you. ) Guns in the right hands save lives...it's been estimated that privately held firearms prevent approximately a million crimes a year in the U.S. With the spread of concealed carry laws into more states the violent crime numbers are coming DOWN!! So pardon me if I say that the argument that's getting old is the one that says that guns in law abiding hands are creating crime. By the way, Ms. Martin, if you were in fear of violent crime would you rather have a firearm handy, or a cell phone to call for help???? Please answer honestly, if not to me, at least to yourself!

inthepines 1 year, 5 months ago

For all the gun haters, it is your right for you and your loved ones to be unprotected. It is my right to protect myself and my family. The only people who do not carry weapons into places where they are banned are the law abiding people. Do you really think all of the criminals are going to obey the law and not carry guns into those places?

If someone breaks into my house while my wife or I are at home, they are going to get shot no questions asked. I value our lives more than any criminal. I could care less about some criminal breaking into our home.

skylinefirepest 1 year, 5 months ago

Hey Bike Boy, I reckon it just goes to show your level of education...I read all of my replies here to make sure I hadn't hit a wrong key somewhere and missed...but it seems to me that all of my entries were quite understandable for even a reader with a moderate level of comprehension. You can also rest your mind over my marksmanship...the Air Force thought I could shoot pretty well and while I can't see as great as I could back then I can generally still hit what I aim at with boring regularity. Hey, I tell it like it is!

JER 1 year, 5 months ago

Yep, the more guns we have, the safer we are. So I guess we are the safest place on the planet. I'm going to look that up and see if it's true. I should also be able to see that England is one of the most dangerous places. As soon as I see the numbers, I'm going to call all my friends in the UK to let them know how much danger they are in. If having a gun is good, would not having a tank be better? Or having a rocket launcher be best? Having a gun to protect my family against an intruder is logical, so wouldn't having a grenade to protect against a bunch of intruders also be logical? I know our founding fathers used cannons. I'm going to check with my POA to see if I can have a cannon to protect my family in case the intruders come in a Hummer. I don't know, this all sounds very expensive and I'm on a fixed income. I think I'll just post a note on my fence saying that I have a nuclear device and not to piss me off.

The_AnonymusProfit 1 year, 5 months ago

Jer your a moron. But your funny

cbrtxus 1 year, 5 months ago

I cannot speak for what happened in other states. It may be the folks in your state are just naturally more violent that we are in Texas. I seriously doubt that. In Texas, the anti-concealed carry folks were saying the same sorts of scary things after we passed concealed carry and each time we expanded it. As it turns out, people licensed to carry are not the ones that commit the crimes generally speaking. And laws don't seem to keep criminals from carrying illegally anywhere or committing crimes using guns. One anti-gun group came up with some totally bogus statistics claiming otherwise. A case of lying for a good cause from their perspective I suppose. That was easily refuted. Later the Texas Department of Public Safety started keeping and posting the actual statistics on their web site for all to see. I think that all of the states should do that. I certainly hope that I am never forced to fire my weapon to defend myself. I sure was glad that I had it early one morning in a parking lot when I was accosted. When he saw that I was armed, he backed off and quickly disappeared. These anti-gun zealots seem to be trying to argue that being defenseless is the best defense. Obviously I don't agree.

babiehop 1 year, 5 months ago

re: sgmartin This may not be exactly what you had in mind, but neither is it far from it nor is it very far from my back yard.

Motions Heard in Lakeview Murder Case by John Chappell

dustyrhoades 1 year, 5 months ago

I guess this makes Mr. Rhoades a party to the lunatic right.

No, it shows that the right contains a lot of dangerous lunatics.

dustyrhoades 1 year, 5 months ago

When is the last time that a Legally Concealed Carry Permit individial was charged and convicted of any gun related crime?

Well, since you asked:

http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

A CCP doesn't make you a saint, any more than it makes you a violent nutcase.