SBI Investigating Death of Robbins Man in Pinehurst

hcaeb 1 year, 1 month ago

Wow, this is alot different than the story on WRAL. There story says he was being checked out in the emergency room and then tasered. Wonder which one is correct. Prayers to the family.

Mr. Armstrong was my uncle and yes he was being checked out in the emergency room. He went there in hopes to recieve help and looks like he was helped to death. He had decided to leave and thats when 3 police officers decided to go after him and taser him 3 times and thats when he collapsed and stopped breathing. There was a family member there that seen the whole thing. We would like to know why they tasered him 3 times. I just don't think it was necessary when he was already down the first time. There are so many different stories going around and people leaving comments saying he must have been on drugs or drinking. I just want to let everyone know that the bad comments are very painful for myself and my family members to read. He was not on any drugs and didn't drink. I would like to say thank you for all the prayers and please continue to pray for the family.

laurie92291 1 year, 1 month ago

Your right, it did say he was shocked with the taser. How convenient it isn't in the Pilot.

RmeMP 1 year, 1 month ago

I hope that what i have heard is untrue...

I heard this man, who was schizo, was tazed three times in a very short period of time by the pinehurst PD. That seems a bit excessive - but of course I wasn't there.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

Remember the media has a tendancy to make things up as they go along. when they dont get the story they want many times they ad-lib, listen to gossip mongrols or in this case a relative who witnessed a very stressful, dynamic event with a family member. look at the WRAL report it says that security stunned the man three times. how is that possible when MRH security do not have stun guns or tazers? even the commenters on this forum are ad-libbing all three prior posts said the word tazer, the WRAL story says stun-gun, those are two very different items. Also if he was resisting and he was "tazed" what difference does it make how many times? if the person is still actively resisting he is still a danger to the officers. Let the SBI do their job and investigate this. Lets not forget this is a very stressful situation for all involved including the officers. My prayers to the mans family and to the officers involved.

RmeMP 1 year, 1 month ago

Ummm... Since it appears you missed the paragraph above, in which the police captain SPECIFICALLY says that a "Taser" was used - maybe you should reread it before calling other posters "ad-libbers".

If you want to comment on the WRAL story - then go there and do so, this is THE PILOT.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

Apparently the story was updated otherwise the first two comments wouldnt be stating the story is different then WRALs story and the second comment wouldnt have said how convenient it was for the Pilot to leave it out. Where did you hear the guy was schizo, do you know that for fact or is it rumor?

Zoey 1 year, 1 month ago

Most modern tazers are equipped with probes, once the tazer's projectiles have been fired, it will act as a stun gun, also......

Ross 1 year, 1 month ago

"Remember the media has a tendancy to make things up as they go along. when they dont get the story they want many times they ad-lib

DUMBEST statement I have heard here so far.

robink 1 year ago

Some how the news did get that part mixed up...the nurses called for the security guards and 3 pinehurst police responded and were the ones that tazed him 3 times outside of MRH.

clbvpm 1 year, 1 month ago

From WRAL website - Pinehurst, N.C. — The State Bureau of Investigation has been called in to investigate the Saturday night death of a Robbins man outside FirstHealth Moore Regional Hospital, officials said Monday.

Relatives said Ronald Armstrong was being checked out in the emergency room when he tried to leave. Nurses called for hospital security to help restrain Armstrong, and the guards used a stun gun on him at least three times, relatives said.

Hospital spokeswoman Gretchen Kelly said security guards don't carry stun guns. She referred all other questions to the Pinehurst Police Department, which said the SBI was handling the case.

clbvpm 1 year, 1 month ago

WRAL report says "Relatives" reported the security guards used stun guns 3 times. It sounds like they are relying on relatives for their news rather than the Pinehurst Police or the SBI.

My prayers are also with the Armstrong family and the officers involved,

robink 1 year ago

Ronald Armstrong was my uncle and none of us have spoken with any news group. I don't know why it says relatives but there was a relative there that witnessed everything that happened. So many different stories going around I don't know how they get their information but wasn't from us.

None 1 year, 1 month ago

Perhaps someone or news agency will get their story straight. If he was being checked out doesn't he have a legal right to leave un-accosted? Will readers have the real story once the SBI has completed their investigation?

None 1 year, 1 month ago

If an individual is a danger to themselves, they can be committed under an "involuntary commit." I worked at MRH, and that is how some individuals have to be admitted. I have never seen MRH security carrying a stun gun. As a matter of fact they don't even carry guns period. There are procedures in place though and when certain "codes" are called, the police department is notified. Normally the ER would restrain an individual by using restraints in the bed etc...My thoughts are with the family. Sometimes law enforcement is too excessive, especially with those that have mental disorders. They need more training in my opinion because they need to have the ability to differentiate between a common criminal, and an individual who is suffering a mental illness.

None 1 year, 1 month ago

Whats excessive in your opinion? officers are killed all the time by people with mental illness. They cant let their guard down due to another persons mental problems. Officers are not paid to get assaulted and killed.

None 1 year, 1 month ago

but they do need more training to better serve society.

None 1 year, 1 month ago

how do you know they are not being trained as it is? maybe thyey receive plenty, and as with many thing in life the unexpected and uncontrolled happens.

None 1 year, 1 month ago

sensitivity training cultural diversity training, training on what dual diagnosis is and general mental health training knowing what to look for.

None 1 year, 1 month ago

they are not doctors. and they do have sensitivity training and cultural diversity training. it is required yearly by law. many also receive training on mental health issues including Crisis Intervention Training which is put on by NAMI and the Sandhills center for the mantally ill. walk a mile in the shoes before passing judgement.

None 1 year ago

I have they need more period

None 1 year, 1 month ago

Police have far more training now than they ever have had in the past. Unless you have never tried to get a violent psychotic person under control then you really don't have a clue. I am glad we have those willing to put on the uniform and do battle with violent people.

None 1 year ago

So you are saying all Mental patients are the same DR? So shoot then ask questions later? HUM..

None 1 year, 1 month ago

No a person is not free to leave un-accosted if under a court ordered Involuntary commentment order. Someone somewhere decided Mr. Armstrong had a mental problem that made him a danger to himself or others, if not the judicial official cannot issue an involuntary commitment order. The order is in place so that the individual can be picked up and transported to a mental facility (ER) for exam by a doctor who decides if he/she is in fact a danger to him/herself if so that person is committed to receive treatment, if no he/she is free to leave or be transported back to the place he was taken into custody. So the officers were simply doing their duties.

recondo 1 year, 1 month ago

Hey heres an idea. dont show your ass when you are being arrested and the chances are you wont be hit with a tazer. i know in this case they were possible mental health issues involved and that the person may not have been in his right mind at the time.... but on the street i have no pity for an idiot that wants to fight the police. Remember folks up til about ten years ago there was no other step of force between pepper spray and getting shot with a pistol, in my opinion more suspects have been saved by the invention of the tazer than have died from its use

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

I agree!!!

Zoey 1 year, 1 month ago

I never knew 'simple resisting' could get you, justifiably, a ball capped in ya, or tazer'd to death...

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

who says it was simple resisting? for that matter who says it was the tazer or even the officers? people fall out all the time.

Zoey 1 year, 1 month ago

Saturn5, Way to Own this comment section!! Your bias opinion is clearly evident.I have only one question, if you don't mind.. Are you a free mason, as well?

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

what bias? all i ask is for people to state facts not conjecture and the fact is noone on this forum including myself knows what happoned. if we did there would be no need for an investigation by the SBI. we dont have the answers lets not make them up as we go along. the only fact we all know is people die, could it be the taser? could it have been drugs? could it have been excited dilerium? or could it have been a heart attack? we just dont know. and if you think my support of law enforcement in a civil society is bias, well i cant fix that. I also support the military is there an issue with that one also?

Zoey 1 year ago

I knew I wouldn't get a 'simple' straight answer.....I posted this a week or two back, seems pertinent again....

Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth. ~Albert Einstein

saturn5 1 year ago

Thinking respect for authority is fine making up stories and conjecture is the problem!

theonewithsense 1 year, 1 month ago

Don't taze me bro!

fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

I regret the loss of life here however I give the benefit of the doubt to the police officers.

CNMT 1 year, 1 month ago

It will take time before we get the real story. I am sure the truth lies somewhere between the Pilot's story and the WRAL story. If I had to hazard a guess, and this is only a guess, I am thinking he was at the Emergency Room to be examined, was involuntarily committed and was not happy about that (not sure anyone is ever happy about being involuntarily committed) and either tried to leave the ER or was being escorted outside to be transported by Pinehurst Police when the incident happened. The Security Officers at MRH do not have guns of any kind (stun guns or hand guns) or tazers. As another person posted, certain situations that occur at MRH automatically involve a call to Pinehurst PD. So even if they were not on the scene already, they would have been called if this situation warranted. Let's let the SBI and any other law enforcement agencies do their job and withhold judgement against anyone until they are finished. Thoughts and prayers to Mr. Armstrong's family and to the officers involved and their families.

infirmuspuer 1 year, 1 month ago

I grew up with Mr. Armstrong. There is no doubt that he had a few emotional problems, but He was a kind and gentle and caring person. As a person that has had more than one encounter with local law enforcement officers trust me when I say that most are quick to use force to subdue a suspect, and I'm sure quite of few enjoy doing it. If a person is being detained for questioning or anything else, it is in their best interest to be polite and cooperative, for their own safety, if nothing else. If Mr. Armstrong had a history of psychological problems, the police should have taken that into consideration before they attempted to take him into custody.
If he was in their sight, and not attempting to harm himself or anyone else, someone could have attempted to calm him down in a less violent, and in this case deadly manner. I am sad to hear that "Ronald Hank" is no longer with us. I have many happy childhood memories that He will always be a part of.
I understand that law officers are in danger at all times, and must be ready to defend themselves' but to attempt to subdue an unarmed 43 year old man with a taser is going a bit far in my opinion. Maybe stricter psychological testing for police candidates could help avoid this in the future.

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saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

makes me wonder what your encounters were? correct me if im wrong but wasnt Mr. Armstrong a good sized strong fellow? if im not mistaken thats exactly what tazers are for to use on people that are actively resisting to lessen the chance of injury to the subject and the officers. remember everytime an officer is in contact with someone there is a weapon involved, it may be on the officers side, but there is one involved. just look at the number of officers killed each year by their own sidearm.

bassmandan10 1 year ago

saturn5 you should know what your talking about as much as you have been on here making comments? Mr Armstrong was SHORT and SWOLLEN from HEALTH problems and mentally ill and couldn't hardly walk without having breathing problems the POLICE could probally just blown him over with there breath? So I guess they just thought it would be easier to TASE him to DEATH. Why don't you know your fax better before you open your mouth.

sfavela 1 year, 1 month ago

Lots of questions about really happened. Let the SBI investigate. I think we'll all find the Pinehurst police officers responded per protocol. Stop bashing those that protect and serve. Our emergency responders are grossly underpaid and put their life on the line for us every single day.

isthisamerica 1 year, 1 month ago

I agree with sfavela. Pinehurst PD puts up with a lot of bashing when they are just doing their job. This isn't Compton, so they get to focus on serving the community in a very different capacity. They truly do serve and protect. Day to day they are responding to elderly request to reset an alarm, get a snake out of a yard, checking on elderly family members to make sure they're OK, putting away belligerent drunk drivers, and helping the hospital deal with uncooperative patients. It's a shame what bout happened to this gentlemen, but who expects someone to die from a tazer (It has happened, but is very rare)? Would the posters on here prefer to hear a story that a Pinehurst Police Officer was severely beaten by mentally ill person? Just curious.

nolabel 1 year, 1 month ago

I agree that cops and emergency responders put their life's on the line everyday, but neither cops nor firefighters even make the "top 10 list" of the most dangerous jobs according to the department of labor contrary to popular belief.

Tazer deaths are on the rise. Over 300 deaths and counting per year. I don't know the stats on cops that are killed in the line of duty. I appreciate what they do, but that does not mean that they always do what is right.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

I would like to see where you received your info. I looked on the department of labor website and the most recent most dangerous jobs list i found was 1997 and police were on the list as were firefighters. I did find some info from the bureau of labor statistics that put police at number 12, thats pretty high in my book. I also found it interesting that only 2 on the list taxi drivers and police were due to homicides and if you think about since taxi drivers are robbed the police are the only ones killed because of their job. also since there are thousands maybe millions of jobs making the list at all is significant. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1736788/top_12_most_dangerous_jobs.html?cat=11 Also where did you get the stats on tasers deaths?

witness2 1 year, 1 month ago

No one comments about the abuse the officers deal with. Does anyone know why the officer was admitted in to the hospital when this occurred? Do they even care? Often they have thankless jobs and again people have no idea what really happens unless they were indeed there. Anyone want to do the job get in line it is very short.

eflat7 1 year, 1 month ago

I agree. Sure there are probably some b-holes in the dept, but most just want to do a good job at work and go home.

witness2 1 year, 1 month ago

So true eflat7. All departments to include private sector has the b-holes you speak of. Have you ever dealt with a person who just don't want to be doing what they are doing? No matter what the profession or simply a job there are those who need to be doing something completely diffferent and it shows but the officers at Pinehurst PD have never reflected that in the situations I have dealt with them. They were always professional and very helpful. Officers don't get paid anything for what they put up with. How many people would stand around and let someone spit on them, curse them out or even try to strike, kick, punch etc them and just let it go so they can help the family or even the person who is doing the abusing? Not many if any. Please pray for all concerned in the Pinehurst case being less quickly to judge if you have not been there.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

I agree all the community colleges within 50 miles of Moore Co. have police academies if they think they could do the job better, sign up, get trained, get a badge and change the world.

SouthernShooter 1 year, 1 month ago

So sad and I pray for those affected by this tragedy. Keep in mind that this isn't the first tazer death of a "mental" patient by Pinehurst Police at the hospital. The hospital has trained staff that are very good at deescalating psychotic patients in a non violent way. In fact it is state law, NCI. Ronald WAS a person that COULD be talked down, especially after some vitamin H. I know this from many first hand experiences I have had with this patient. I'm angry that a man died because Pinehurst PD had to assert their "authority".

witness2 1 year, 1 month ago

Maybe Pinehurst Police should not be called if there are people available who can better handle the situation. Sounds like Pinehurst PD should let those mental health professionals and security at the hospital handle their own issues. If they get themselves or some innocent person hurt then let them be responsible.That way Pinehurst PD staff can save all the grief and not be blamed when they are not needed there to begin with.

clbvpm 1 year, 1 month ago

But in this case, the nurses could not "talk him down" as you put it. They called for help from security. The police did not just show up. Someone had to call them.

fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

Wow, I guess that settles it. The SBI can pack their stuff and go back home. My guess is the PPD would be happy if they were never called to the ED for situations such as this. But they WERE called, they came and I am sure they did the best they could in a volitile, dynamic situation. I would further suppose the ED staff was glad to see them. I regret the loss of life, I regret the heartache of the family and of the officers involved as well. I am thankful that no staff, patients or the officers were injured.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

When was there another Tazer death by pinehurst police? Southern Shooter you have a right just like everyone else on this forum to say your opinion but you do not have a right to commit libel and just plain lie. Yes I am calling you out on that. go ahead tell us when did this happen?

SouthernShooter 1 year, 1 month ago

Early 2000's as I recall.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

Not good enough if you make a statement that can be considered libel or slanderous you need to provide facts not as you recall. The fact is they did not have another taser incident and you know it!

SouthernShooter 1 year, 1 month ago

Witness, I agree with you. The hospital usually handles their own. If the PD were called for every incident of "out of controll" patients they would have to open a police substation in the ED. By nature "psych patients" have a potential for not fully understanding their situation, behavior, or commands given to them by staff or police. Police should handle criminals not hospital patients acting out. This is the humble opinion of a long term psych nurse that is very familiar with the hospital protocols.

fugitiveguy 1 year, 1 month ago

It is shocking with your vast experience that you have never witnessed or participated in a situation where it took 6 staff members to restrain one out of control psych patient until they could be medicated (not all can be de-escalated). Who takes care of the other patients (some critically ill) while all the staff are wrasslin the psych patient? THANK GOD FOR THE PPD! My last word on the subject.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

if you are a long term as you say then your comments "The hospital has trained staff that are very good at deescalating psychotic patients in a non violent way." does not make any sense at all sense the trained staff are who called the PD in the first place. sounds like to me you just have a problem with the Pinehurst PD.

SouthernShooter 1 year, 1 month ago

Hospital staff can not operate "off campus". I suspect the PD was called to return the pt to the ED.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

They were "on campus" when this happened.

witness2 1 year ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

SouthernShooter 1 year, 1 month ago

OK guys and gals, looks like what I assumed happened did in fact happen. Now I am even more upset. I hope they rename the PD after Ronald, when they get done with the law suit. Kind of hard to justify use of a tazer on someone firmly holding on to a telephone pole. Not sure how that act could be viewed as a threat to officer or public safety. Unless they felt he would pull the pole out of the ground and hit them with it. I'm glad tazers weren't invented during the civil rights sit-ins of the 60's. Where is the tree-hunger or ACLU-ers outrage?

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

Its hugger not hunger and again you sound like just some rumor monger that has an issue with the pd. I think you need to worry about lawsuits in your libel statement above "Keep in mind that this isn't the first tazer death of a "mental" patient by Pinehurst Police at the hospital". I for one would love to hear when that happened.

SouthernShooter 1 year, 1 month ago

Sorry spell checker went awry

robink 1 year ago

Thank you!!! Ronald Armstrong was my uncle and you are correct. He was holding onto a telephone pole when they walked up to him and jerked him away from the pole chocking him and threw him to the ground and were holding him down by stepping on him. After they done all that they still just had to use their taser gun on him 3 times. He was in no shape healthwise to even fight with them because he was swollen with fluid and could barely walk because his legs and whole body was swollen. He also had copd so he couldn't even walk 5 steps and would have to stop to rest and catch his breath.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

Agreed!!

Ross 1 year ago

While I am hardly an opponent of the police or tasers, they DO kill people.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/05/taser-related-deaths-accelerating/

This death was sad - and indeed the investigation will hopefully exonerate the officers as they have a thankless and dangerous job.

gr8place2live 1 year, 1 month ago

I would first like to send my thoughts of condolence to the family members for their loss. Secondly, I would like to send thoughts of sympathy to the officers involved. I hope that all of the officers involved are well following such a horrible situation. All to often, citizens are critical of the responses of the officers. I say to each of you that this applies, get off your butts and join the ranks to make the deaprtment what you think it should be. It's easy for everyone to sit back and give their opinions. However, if you were not their to witness the event first hand, keep your opinions or observations to yourself. As far as being Tasered, everyone must understand tat each officer who carries a Taser, must himself/herself be "Tazed" shocked with one before they are allowed to carry it. I never hear people say "poor officers, I hate they had to go through that kind of training". We do not know exactly what killed this man, so wait until the results from all test and determinations are made to place judgement.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

Sounds reasonable to me! But as is so common people that have a bone to pick will stir the pot. If the officers were wrong (and from what I understand they were not) they will be held accountable. At the same time if they are right all the cop bashers on this forum owe them an apology.

witness2 1 year ago

I agree that people are quick to judge. As mentioned previously one officer was hospitalized as a direct result of this interaction or so I have heard. No one seems to care about that. No mention of it anywhere. Wonder why???

gr8place2live 1 year, 1 month ago

Hey Southernhooter, so you think mental patients should just be medicated based upon your "vitamin H" comment. For those of you wondering about vitamin H, it is a medication called Hadol. What happened to de-escalalating the situation by talking him down. Last time I checked, cops don't carry meds. Whose to say they didn't try talking him down before everything went down. Oh well, talks big for someone whose greatest threat during the day is probably from a paper cut unlike these officers.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

I agree Southern Scooter's own comments are contradicting 1st all they had to do is talk him down then the hospital staff could have handled it then drug him then he is very familier with hospital proticals and why they called the police. it sounds like he has had a ticket or and has anissue with the police. Im still wanting to know about his comment "Keep in mind that this isn't the first tazer death of a "mental" patient by Pinehurst Police at the hospital" but i think he knows its not true so he wont respond to that.

SouthernShooter 1 year, 1 month ago

see response

ncgurl2010 1 year, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

brownboys2 1 year, 1 month ago

You have lost your mind! Ronald DID NOT HAVE A MEAN bone in his body! How dare you say YOU are happy! This is someones son, brother, father, and friend. Yes, Ron had his problems, but you could not find a nicer person. And how is someone being violent when they are holding onto a pole? Trying not to go back to the hospital? He went there of his own free will - he was not forced to go! He went with his MOTHER who is STILL in the hospital.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

The poster has a right to state an opinion

SouthernShooter 1 year, 1 month ago

Let me clarify. I am not bashing the PD per say. I am bashing their actions in this specific case (and the before mentioned). I am also trying to advocate for compassionate treatment of citizens with mental health problems. Most police officers are not the best at dealing with these situations, though their training programs have improved in recent years. Police are supposed to use tazers in part of a force continuum when dealing with a perceived threat. The operative word being threat, which I'm not convinced applies in this case. As far as tazers being safe, there has been many studies documenting the dangers of tazer use. One doesn't have to dig deep to find countless reports of deaths occurring after a subject was tasered. Regarding the prior death, I might have been mistaken...they might have used pepper spray instead of a tazer. The incident was WELL documented, procedural changes WERE made as a result, and A LOT of people knew of the incident and were involved in the sentinel investigation.

saturn5 1 year, 1 month ago

I am aware of the prior case and no there werent changes made because the officers were cleared and nothing was found to have been wrong. and no taser was involved so before you get yourself in trouble with a slander situation you need to get your facts straight.

buckmark 1 year, 1 month ago

Lets hope The Pilot has the courage to actually follow this story and keep its readers informed of the results of the SBI investigation.

gr8place2live 1 year, 1 month ago

Southern Shooter, I have an idea. Let's take away the Taser's and leave the officers with only their firearm to defend themselves in a perceived threat situation. Then let's see how many deaths are truly caused by the officer's defense. Let's look back at the numer of people that have been Tased versus shot and see which has the greatest survival rate. I can tell you that the Taser has saved many more lives than it has "supposedly" taken not to mention the number of lives of officers saved. You say your not bashing the PD but the actions of the officer's involved. I don't think you have the right to bash their actions if you weren't there to witness what occured. Pick a better fight and move on. Oh, I forgot you probably don't work anyway so this all you have to do in your spare time.

witness2 1 year ago

As mentioned before anyone wishing to be an officer should get in line to do so because the lines are very short for those waiting. No one wants the officers around until THEY need to be assisted or when they are being victimized then they are the first to call for help.

bassmandan10 1 year ago

So the Pilot reports 3 officers? So you mean they couldn't handle (1) Unarmed Patient that was resisting them, so they couldn't have taken him down with there training other then tasing him to death? sounds like they either paniced or over reacted on this one patient that clearly needed Psychiatric help, instead he is dead and now they are under investigation, Its sad for the family's that are involved. The hospital is a place you go for HELP not EXECUTION.

SouthernShooter 1 year ago

Please excuse my views, but this is an issue that I am passionate about. I have worked with directly with LE, even the PPD, and am not blindly cop bashing. Just because I disagree with some LEO decisions, doesn’t mean I have lost respect for their profession. I have spent my entire adult postgraduate career helping people who are less fortunate among us. My CV is fairly accomplished and I pay plenty of taxes, so spare me your personal attacks. My issue is not with the existence of tazers, as they have an important place as a tool for law enforcement. My issue is with some specific applications of tazer USE. In my opinion, it is inhumane effect compliance through the application of pain on someone who might not be “in his or her right mind”. The problem is pain compliance techniques aren’t the most reliable when used on someone suffering from psychosis. There are other less cruel options available to LE in those specific cases, though probably not as easy as just shocking the stuffing out of someone. I can not count the number of times I have been threatened, assaulted and injured during the course of my duties. I’m sure access to a tazer would have made my job easier, but it wouldn’t have been ethical or legal. It seems that more people are against the use of cattle prods on uncooperative livestock, but not the human equivalent. Just because tazers are safer than firearms (which is an apples and oranges argument) doesn’t mean use of tazers are without risks. I’m done. Thank you for allowing me to express my opinion. I just hope the Pilot covers the outcome of the investigation.

saturn5 1 year ago

You are cop bashing you even stated an outright lie in several of your previous posts!

bassmandan10 1 year ago

You are Mental bashing so whats the difference!!!!!!!!!

fugitiveguy 1 year ago

As you are a mental health professional you should have known better. Much of your diatribes on here are completely inappropriate. It is apparent that have little if any first hand knowledge of this situation. Keep telling yourself that you are not bashing the police. Your posts tell a different story.

None 1 year ago

After all, of these diatribes, I regress to my initial thread: Toda April 25, 2011 at 6:11 p.m.

Perhaps someone or news agency will get their story straight. If he was being checked out, doesn't he have a legal right to leave un-accosted? Will readers have the real story once the SBI has completed their investigation?

There was no mention of involuntary commitment, nor that he was taken before a magistrate for evaluation. Too much assuming in my opinion....

None 1 year ago

I agree the truth not assumptions needs told. the report does mention involuntary commitment and the person doesnt have to go before a magistrate.

None 1 year ago

The person who takes out the involuntary commitment papers must go before a magistrate unless it is an emergency commitment obtained by a law enforcement officer. No, the person being served the commitment paper is only carried before a mental health professional to determine the need for commitment if at all.

None 1 year ago

" …emergency commitment obtained by a law enforcement officer." As a former deputy, a sergeant with the Pinehurst Police Department, I have never seen a law enforcement officer qualified through educational standards to make any determination on one’s psychological wellbeing...most psychiatrists can't do that either. From friends who grew up in the Robbins area with the late Mr. Armstrong and knew him well, he was no threat to anyone. By the way, emergency room doctors or psychiatrists who are promptly called to do an assessment, have no clinical experience with an individual to make any determination regarding involuntary commitment. I jumped through those hoops excessively many times as a deputy sheriff in years gone by. The article doesn’t state whether the “family” obtained involuntary commitment papers from a magistrate before he was transported to First Health, the family just took him to the ER department. Very few facts are missing in the editorial to even assume a position.

SouthernShooter 1 year ago

If you will re-read my posts, I attempted to clarify (as I was unable to edit my original post). What I meant to say was..This isn't the first death associated with a police response to the hospital for assistance with someone "not right in the head". IMHO, police are better suited to deal with criminal elements in society versus those legitimately "impaired" through no fault of their own. I am usually a ardent supporter of law enforcement and have a very conservative anti scumbag view on things. However, that doesn't mean I will look the other way when I perceive an injustice. Especially when their is a history of "issues".I guess we will see how the investigation plays out. I apologize for my poor wording in the original post. I was a bit emotional yesterday.

saturn5 1 year ago

You made the statement more than once that a taser was used in a previous incident. when the fact is you dont have a clue about this incident and you sure dont have a clue about any prior incident. You are just backpedeling because someone called you out on your statement. You need to check your facts before spouting off. I am not privy to the current situation but i was witness to the previous one and your comments are way off base. As a psych nurse you should be professional enough to fact check prior to making statements that are false. Im sure First Health wouldnt appreciate you making false statements about incidents that involve them. You as everyone else on this forum have the right to state your opinion, but you have no right to to make statements that are false and slanderous.

SouthernShooter 1 year ago

Ok, Saturn5. Let me apologize one additional time for you. I tried to edit my post but was unable. As far as clueless, hardly. Different situations, locations, and pathology, but in each case I feel "non-lethal intervention" by PPD resulted in let's say, poor outcomes (unless, as a witness, you felt their presence was beneficial). Both incidents were tragic, sad, and IMHO preventable (I shed tears over the prior incident) I hope that is back-peddled enough, lord knows FH hates dirty linen. I'm sorry my compassion for those in need irritated you. I will always advocate for decent treatment of the mentally ill.

saturn5 1 year ago

Advocating is a wonderful thing but dont lie to try and stir the pot. The fact is you made a statement that you are clueless about. You werent there on either occasion so you dont know what happened in either situation. Compassion for those in need is great noone can fault you for that but sometimes things happen that are beyond control. i was there for the first incident and i know what happened the officers did the best they could in a situation where a mentally ill person became violent. I wasnt there for the second incident but from what i understand the officers did they best they could with a person and a situation beyond their control.

bassmandan10 1 year ago

It seems some of the comments I have read some people just want to believe Mr Armstrong just fell over dead without any taser? I believe in police protection and law enforcement, but I also believe that police can use to much force like with the taser, Mr Armstrong just didn't fall over dead he was killed by something, he was sick not dying when they found him. When the officers found him and they used a taser on him just like a family member said, we are forgetting it is Mr Armstrong that was killed and his family is going to have to live with the memory of taking him to the hospital to get help and was killed. Prayers to the Armstrong family because they will need them for days and weeks to come.

saturn5 1 year ago

Sometimes people do just fall over dead, and would be even more common in this situation if he knew he was being commited, that in itself can be stressfull.

bassmandan10 1 year ago

How convenient for Mr Armsrtong that the POLICE was right there! What a stupid remark.

gr8place2live 1 year ago

Bassmandan, seriously think about what you have said. You make it sound like the officers just flat out killed the guy. Whose to say he didn't have a bad heart that just quit. People fall over dead all the time while doing nothing at all much less having involvment in something physical. I hate that anyone has to lose their life but the officer's were doing their job. So let me ask everybody this, would it have been better if the police just used a stun gun to try and gain compliance rather than the dreaded Taser. I again add, every cop I know has had to be Tased before they can carry the Taser. From what I see that's a bunch by the number of Taser's I see on their hips. Have you ever heard of an officer dying from "being Tased"? I sure haven't.

witness2 1 year ago

No they have not died. And yes they are required to go through a shock by the tazer to carry same . The shocks are also recorded for records later if needed. Officers also go thru the spraying with OC (pepper) spray and at one time also had to go thru tear gas in a small confined place. People just have not idea what they go thru so far as training. It is an ongoing continuous process as it should be. Sorry for all involved, including the officer who was hospitalized.

Zoey 1 year ago

This is exactly why you don't see many 'older' officers (with medical issues or personally, don't want to take that chance) wearing tasers. The taser effects the central nervous system--the ultimate controller of our muscles..Our heart is a ??

I have never seen 'any' officer being tased more than a second or two, three max. While citizens are being zapped multiple times, sometimes in tandom, with up to ten second pulses. That's kind of the same, right?

bassmandan10 1 year ago

gr8place2live, There was (3) officers not (1) so yes they did take the easy way, they could have restrained him, if not they need another job, and I know that police don't get tased over and over thats ridiculous for anyone to keep refering to tasers don't kill just because police take a tase, so stop with the stupidity that police get tased so you cant possibly die from getting tased multiple times with a taser, if its in the study we keep hearing about then maybe police need to be tased multiple times to prove this study? not, they and you know you cant be tased over and over I dont care who you are it is going to kill you.

gr8place2live 1 year ago

I call your BS on this post. First off, if everyone don't know the facts, and not just what the news media is saying, then keep your mouths shut and let the investigation be handled. As for their being three officers on the scene, based on the release that is correct. So let me see here, next time instead of using a taser to gain compliance they should just beat them? The taser has proven it's worth in law enforcement saving many suspect's and officers. Before you spout off at the lip, do some research and then get back with us.

bassmandan10 1 year ago

I do know the facts and it aint BS, I know the family and they didn't have to BEAT or Tase a guy that was Swallen and has Medical problems, you should know your fax before you open your big mouth. And since you seem to know so much you should let someone knock you down and tase you a few times and then you can tell us how it was!

gr8place2live 1 year ago

I'm game if you are. But we all know that won't happen. Your just all mouth anyways. Also, just because you know the family, doesn't mean your getting the correct information from them. I'm truly sorry the family is having to go through this ordeal and my prayers go out to them. While I'm here, you don't even live in this city so what gives you the right to give your two cents worth. I do live here and proud of it. Trust me if the police ask me to do something, I do it without resistance. Remember they are here to help not hurt. This situation is a sad one and I feel for all involved. But I say again, if you weren't here to know what happened, you need not make comments.

saturn5 1 year ago

Cops dont get paid to get injured and anytime they go hands on they have a chance to get injured so dont say they need another job. Are there any dangers in your job? other than getting burned by the frier? if you think your man enough go to the academy and do the job yourself. and yes i want fries with that!

bassmandan10 1 year ago

Police are here to help not Execute, thats after you been convicted of a crime, this was at a hospital remember? All you thought he was sentenced already.

witness2 1 year ago

Please get in line and put on a badge and uniform and put your knowledge and physical strength to work on the street. That would be one way to prove you wrong about your comments. Don't think you could do the job, just saying.

clevite 1 year ago

YALL PEOPLE ON THAT END OF THE COUNTY THINK YOUR BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE ANYWAY,WE WERE BORN HERE WE DIDNT MOVE DOWN HERE

bassmandan10 1 year ago

AMEN clevite

witness2 1 year ago

Guess what me too born and raised in northern Moore County but still got some education and common sense. I guess that makes the difference.

crnno 1 year ago

How much do you want to bet that when an "actual" cause of death is determind it has nothing to do with the use of a TASER, more likely a condition called Excited Delirium?! In fact the number of deaths that occur during arrests where a TASER has been used are approximately the same as deaths during arrests where a TASER is not used. In over 88% of deaths that occur during arrest the subjects suffer from atleast one if not multipule of a handful of factors, including obesity, heart disease, drug use, mental illness, etc....

Studies have shown that the number of persons who need medical attention following an arrest has drastically declined since the introduction of TASER use in law enforcement. Furthermore, in a study of TASER use from 1985 thru2005 there's was only one documented case where a death has been directly linked to the use of a TASER. It was in SC and the guy was TASER'd for almost 3mins straight. In all other cases where the "media" or "sue happy" family members have claimed a TASER killed someone it's been other factors that caused the death. Check out the book....

"Taser Electronic Control Devices and Sudden In-Custody Death: Separating Evidence From Conjecture"

Also, it might be prudent to actually know what really happened before pointing fingers and passing judgement. It's natural for a grieving family to want someone to blame but I imagine that when the SBI is done with their investigation and releases the autopsy there will be some apologizes owed to the Hospital staff and Pinhurst PD. The question is will those people have the the integrity to do so?

bassmandan10 1 year ago

crnno, Its probally true it was his heart that stoped, it dont take a medical expert to know what happened to Mr Armstrong, when you are already swallen and Mentally sick and your tased over and over and choked repeatedly by 3 people I don't care who they are and who you are its going to kill you, if the poilice couldn't tell he was Sick and over weight they need more training. and you need to stop about this grieving family stuff, because Mr Armsrtronds Sister was there and witnessed the whole thing so she has every reason to GRIEVE, wouldn't you???

crnno 1 year ago

First off, it does take an “expert” to determine cause of death, they are Coroners.

Thousands of “sick” and “overweight” people are arrested every year without dying in the process. However there is a condition called “sudden” cardiac death (SCD) is a sudden, unexpected death caused by loss of heart function (sudden cardiac arrest). Sudden cardiac death is the largest cause of natural death in the United States, causing about 325,000 adult deaths in the United States each year. Sudden cardiac death occurs most frequently in adults in their mid-30s to mid-40s. This can and does happen when individuals are being taken into custody and when it does it is “sudden” meaning without warning.

No one is saying what happened isn’t tragic what I am saying is that when people suffer such a loss it’s a fact that in the healing process there is a stage when they feel as if they need someone or something to blame. When the truth of the matter is that sometimes these things just happen. A lot of other people are affected by this to include the police officers involved and the hospital staff. Imagine if it were you, out there doing your job and something like this happened. Then you have all these people placing blame and wrong doing without knowing the facts.

Chances are these people did nothing wrong and yet their jobs, careers, reputations, families, financial well being, are all being threatened and put at risk. Let’s also not be so callus that we don’t consider what mental effect this may have on those directly involved, especially with all the people on here making assumptions of guilt. Do really think that of all the individuals that responded to help this man that they all lack a moral compass, that there is not one good heart among them?! You sir and those like you are the cruel ones here.

bassmandan10 1 year ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

saturn5 1 year ago

sick and overweight doesnt mean your not dangerous

infirmuspuer 1 year ago

I agree that in the end, it will have been something other than the use of the taser was the cause of death. I'm sure the PPD has a great attorney. Did the taser aggravate whatever condition that caused the death? That question will probably be answered when PPD settles the wrongful death lawsuit out of court.

isthisamerica 1 year ago

Great points! I can't wait to hear the SBI report so that all the critics will get the real facts and everyone can move on.

isthisamerica 1 year ago

(I agree with CRNNO)

buddysmith 1 year ago

I am surprized there were 3 officers available to respond to the call. They are usually at the traffic circle investigating the non-stop accidents!

None 1 year ago

I THINK ITS A SHAME THAT 3 SO CALLED POLICE OFFICERS CANT SUBDUE A 43 YEAR OLD MAN THAT CANT WALK 50 FEET BEFORE HE HAS TO STOP AN CATCH HIS BREATH, I THOUGHT THEY WERE TO PROTECT AN SERVE THE ONLY THING THEY PROTECTED WAS THE LIGHT POLE HE WAS HANGING ON TO WHILE THEY WERE TAZING HIM TO DEATH

None 1 year ago

clevite, these people on here think we are wrong, they think you should shoot first then see how overweight or SICK the patient is? The Police went overboard on this and they know it!

None 1 year ago

clevite in the past when officers carried a "convoy" and a can of mace, grown men would attempt to take down an mentally unstable person. Did it many times in my career. I must say that a person who is mentally disturbed in most situations, had the strength of several men...add insult to injury, if they were strong individuals to begin with, it took several officers to subdue them. Now add the current make up of most police forces who have little ladies who are every bit of 5' - 2", 120 lbs. take on a grown man, the only recourse is a stand-off neutralizer. If little girls are going to play police, one part of academy training should be the ability to take down a 200 lb. man using only their strength, If not, they should stay at home with the children....

None 1 year ago

Sounds like a male (?) from the 40s and 50s. I guess that explains the comments he needs some educating I guess to get him caught up. I guess the officers were not men like we first thought?? They must have been little girls. Go back to sleep Toda there is a reason you no longer do the job

jrw 1 year ago

Just a question...has the autopsy come back siting the cause of death yet? What if it was a heart attack that could've happened from just being distraught over being taken to the hospital and just happened while he was tazed? What if it was a blood clot that just happened to break free & kill him at that time? What if it was some kind of respiratory problem since it was stated on the forum by a relative that he had COPD? What if he had heart failure due to the excess fluid since his relative also said he was so swollen he could barely walk? Why does everyone have the guns loaded and pointed at the police officers that were involved and there's no cause of death even given yet? I don't know how another officer would've had to seek medical attention at the hospital after the ordeal if the man was simply holding onto a light pole..really?? I'm thinking the whole story still has not been told as of yet and until then, the family should grieve and wait for answers. If the autopsy shows the death came solely because he was tazed, then so be it for them to cast stones and do as they wish but I still believe there's more to this than anyone is willing to say. I don't see 3 cops standing around going...hmmm, how you reckon we gonna get this helpless man that can't walk 5 steps without assistance off this pole?? That's not even logical so, for the families sake of ALL involved...the wonderful man who lost his life and the officers that have to live with that image and back lash now as well...just pray for them and wait patiently.

freebird 1 year ago

I hope that justice will be served for Ronald, as his rights were violated for his mental capacity. He should have never been tased 3 x within the time limit that he was struck meaning 6x the normal limit an officer can tase someone by law. 150,000 volts hit him within 3 minutes. I hope that the SBI will collaborate their findings and speak to his sister who was there and witnessed the attack of her brother. There will be more coming soon once the death certificate is released, and once the SBI is through investigating, I will be contacting other agencies to help seek justice for how this situation was carried out to aggressively and how Ronald's rights were violated. Thank you so much for your prayers as the Armstrong family needs them right now and I pray that the investigation will not be given a band-aid to cover up what could have and should have been done if the PD would have been given proper training in dealing with the mentally ill.

enoughisenough 1 year ago

Here is a thought...When you are asked to do something by a law enforcement officer you may want to do it. If you don't and they have to make you do it then well $^&! can happen. I really am sorry for the loss here and for everyone involved. Tasers don't kill people I don't care what anyone says. THEY DON'T KILL PEOPLE. Other medical problems in stressful situations do! The officers here can't help that he had a mental issue. Couldn't help or change that he may have had other medical issues. They can't even help that he obviously didn't follow directions. Are some of you saying that they should just not do there job if they are dealing with someone similar to this? Bet not if it's happening on your property. I'm sure these officers didn't start the day with the thought...hey lets go to work and see how many people we can kill today. As far as using the taser 3 times. Think about this...Next time you are being attacked, robbed, assaulted, etc call a crack head to help you out in your time of need. I think I'll stick with calling the cops.**

bassmandan10 1 year ago

What a bunch of bull you wrote, I like my Police Department in my town and think they do a good job for what they have, I know that if it wasn't for Police this world would be a worst place then it is, i don't need a crack head for help neither do I need 3 Police to Choke me and throw me on the ground and tase me a few times to say I surrender Mr Police Man.

enoughisenough 1 year ago

"neither do I need 3 Police to Choke me and throw me on the ground and tase me a few times to say I surrender Mr Police Man."

Guess it takes more for some than others. Glad to hear you wouldn't take it that far.

bassmandan10 1 year ago

Pray for the Armstrong's tomorrow they will lay there Son, Brother, Uncle, cousin...

smileeatmeyo 1 year ago

I have honestly read enough. I feel for the family who had lost their loved one. Believe me I do. It was sad and tragic. But all this bashing the police officers involved needs to stop! I personally and professionally know all 3 officers who were involved. Absolutely none of them are ruthless killing machines. THEY WORK IN PINEHURST! They are some of the most caring people I have ever met. And I know for a fact that they are not taking this lightly, they are truly sorry about him dying. If they just wanted to tase him to death they would have never tried to give him CPR! Plus there is no mention about the officer who is sitting in a hospital bed right now, due to heart complications because of this incident. And no its not because the officer is out of shape. No one seems to care that this officer could have easily died as well. And like someone said earlier, these officers livelyhoods are on the line, for just doing their job. They had an involutary commitment order they weren't just there to cause havok! These are the people who will be on the other end of the phone when you call for help. Just remember that as you accuse them of ruthlessly killing a man.

enoughisenough 1 year ago

well put!

gr8place2live 1 year ago

For everyone on here that seems to dislike the police, try calling the Army next time something happens and see where that gets you. The police are our first line of defense and sadly encounters end with injury or death. Remember, the police didn't pull Mr. Armstrong's name out of a hat and say let's pick on him today. They were CALLED to help a situation that the hospital couldn't control. Since no one seemed to answer a previous question I asked, let me ask it again. Would the police been better using a stun gun in this case rather than a Taser? Just wondering?

jamjam 1 year ago

if three can't bring down one then they need to find new work. a whack with a stick about the knees would have stopped him. to answer your short sighted question, nither. deadly force in the wrong tactic as many news reports show. some cops are cowards, Iwas beaten by two while in hand cuffs, while inside of the jail. I don't defend cops one bit. someone killed another in the hospital, someone should pay. eye for an eye.

enoughisenough 1 year ago

what were you in jail for oh enlightened one? did you pay for your crime? doubt it. let me guess...you didn't do it. you probably fall into that category of "if you did what you were told you probably wouldn't have had to be convinced other wise." When people that are mental or high on drugs etc they don't feel pain as normal people do. So to get compliance by "wacking with a stick" they would have had to "wack" more times than anyone would probably want to see. Causing possible broken bones etc. Then you would be asking what the heck they were thinking beating someone so severly. The taser is used to prevent such a beaten. unfortunately in this case the man passed away. not from the taser i'm sure...but from other underlying issues. If you don't like it don't bitch about it...go be a cop and change it. I don't bitch about their job so i say keep on keeping on and i'll keep my day job.

None 1 year ago

jamjam ~ not so fast...I have engaged mentally deranged individuals that a baton wasn’t an option unless one wanted to break a bone or make them angrier. I have seen a 180 lb. man take on 6 deputies weighing over 200 lbs. and fight for over 30 minutes. I’ve been there and know first-hand hand that what seems easy for some is most difficult for others. I can say that for those officers who hit you regardless if you were in handcuffs or not should have been fired. No reason for that behavior. The only time I recall was when another deputy was trying to control an inebriated person, Ricky removed the handcuffs, and the person started swinging – at me. It took three of us to put the guy in the hole [old-old jail]. Even then the arrestee was never hit without overcoming the force…I took two shots and put his lights out. Never tased because we didn’t have any at the time. He threw the first of about 10 punches I might add.

witness2 1 year ago

Sounds like you are an outstanding person in society. Did you say "while in handcuffs?"
All I need to hear!! Enough said about the source of intelligence.

witness2 1 year ago

Freebird Just does not understand about the law and the tazer. There are no laws regulating how many times a person may be tazed. The tazer is used as a less lethal means by which to stop the aggression of a person. Again people forget understand that officers get alot of training. Officers are trained in how to deal with those people who are dealing with mental illness. The Sandhills Center along with the NAMI group as well as the Moore County Co. Sheriff's Dept. in conjunction with Sandhills Community College teach Crisis Intervention Training, which is a 40+ hrs of training in addition to any additional training in basic training and in-service to address dealing with those consumers in crisis. This training also teaches that officers still have duties to carry out. This is very unfortunate situation but one that the officers should not be blamed for. Again one officer was hospitalized due to this violant encounter. NO one talks about that. Why????

SBI Investigating Death of Robbins Man in Pinehurst

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