Protesters Rally for Bond Vote
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Opponents of county plans to build a public safety-jail complex in downtown Carthage without a bond referendum held a protest rally Tuesday in Pinehurst.
Dubbed the “Right2Vote” rally, the event was organized by Pinehurst resident John Marcum for residents who opposed the county commissioners’ decision to issue $50 million in limited obligation bonds, a form of financing that does not require a public referendum. They want the county to call for a bond referendum.
The gathering also attracted residents who agree with the majority action of the Moore County Board of Commissioners and a number of people taking a neutral position on the issue.
“The elephant in the room is the economy,” Marcum said during the presentation part of the program.
Marcum, a member of Moore TEA Citizens, ran unsuccessfully for mayor of Pinehurst several years ago.
About $40 million of the bond issue is designated for the public safety-jail complex planned on a 21-acre tract in downtown Carthage. A number of Carthage residents also oppose the jail expansion on that site.
The remaining $10 million is to pay for utility capital improvements in Pinehurst, a debt to be paid by ratepayers, not from property taxes.
Bob Levy, chairman of the Moore County Republican Party; Jim Heim, chairman of Moore County Democrats; and Dee Park, who heads Moore TEA Citizens, were invited to address the rally, although they largely steered clear of siding with opponents because of differing views among their members.
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Comments
responsible 2 years, 8 months ago
Why are Moore County taxpayers paying $10 million dollars for Pinehurst utility upgrades? Why are we paying $40 million for a 192-cell jail that costs $95,000 per bed? Why not $40,000 per bed or less?
SoPinesNo1 2 years, 8 months ago
Are the tax payers paying for Pinehurst utility upgrades, or, are they being paid for by user fees? I believe it is clear that enterprise funds, such as the Moore Public Utilities budget, are paid for through user fees, not tax dollars. Wake up folks and get your facts straight instead of assuming that every expediture by the County is paid for with your property tax dollars.
plumblevel 2 years, 8 months ago
The amount of money that Caddell, Picerno, and Melton are wasting is criminal. If the 3 Amigos would build a one story jail they could save close to 10 million dollars. They could take the 10 million saving and build a brand new attached courthouse/jail outside of town. They could then build the Gov Complex on the Grimm land.
Harnett County is building for $49,135 per bed and Moore for $95,000 per bed. Why in this economy? Harnett is the norm and Moore is not. Yadkin is planning a 190 beds for 8.7 million.Who is instructing Ware Bonsall to design the super deluxe model as a showroom? The courthouse cannot expand and is already in overflow. The courthouse will have to go outside of town soon anyway.This is indeed poor planning.
There was no one in the audience who spoke in favor of this huge expense in this poor economy. Bob Levy was booed for recommending talking to the commissioners by those who have exhausted themselves in trying to talk to the commissioners. Jim Heim directly addressed head on all the issues from conflict of interest, poor planning, bad location, and the need for an attached courthouse. Heim also addressed the need for a referendum. So, why is it we can't vote?????
JoeGarrison 2 years, 8 months ago
There is no need to vote. John Marcum destroys the very argument of the whole matter when he acknowledged that regardless of the debate the jail is necessary and that needs are there. The issues surrounding the need of our law enforcement, public safety and the jail are these 1. Location 2. Design and size 3. Cost All of these issues can be vetted and discussed and can be done without a referendum. If the county has a referendum and the jail fails, then guess what the county would still be told by the state to do the necessary improvements, probably at a much higher cost. So again all of the above issues are relevant, outside of referendum. A lot of folks are good at complaining and throwing mud but no one has come up with a better solution. Instead of throwing mud and lies and so forth, come up with a better idea that actually will address the acknowledged needs and that is financially feasible.
plumblevel 2 years, 8 months ago
Joe
So why don't we go back to the drawing board. Granted some of this was well under way before your father in law came into office. There is always a better plan out there.
I will give you a better solution right now. Put a new jail outside of town with an attached courthouse on about 20 acres. Build the jail only one story and save 10 million dollars. Use some ot the savings to build a new courthouse. Then build the Gov Complex on the Grimm property keeping gov employees and children safe.The plans are already done for the Gov Complex on the Grimm property so no extra expense there.
Cabarrus County was tied up in litigation from 11 plaintiffs from their historic district and it cost the county over 10 million dollars. So, I say, Joe let us work it out. I am sure there is a solution out there to make everyone happy.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 8 months ago
Where outside of town would you put it? How much land and at what cost would it be to the taxpayer? Again we know what the cost is for the Grimm property and have a estimate for the jail which is below what was expected. I believe that at this point it is a good option. Again idon't live in Carthage and don't fault anyone for being concerned, I just wish that we could do it in a respectful way. We have fought a long time and hey thats fine, I just want to do it where families don't get brought up and personal things that have no bearing on the issues at hand. Are you willing to spend the money to study other land and other possibilites and risk that the options we have now may be cheaper than the options you bring up? I believe that now is the time and that we can do it cheaper than trying to buy more land and pay for those improvements and throw another courthouse in the mix.
None 2 years, 8 months ago
SoPinesNo1=> "such as the Moore Public Utilities budget, are paid for through user fees, not tax dollars. Wake up folks and get your facts straight instead of assuming that every expenditure by the County is paid for with your property tax dollars." Here's your link!
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/TextViewProjSummary.aspx?data=recipientAwardsList&State=NC&AwardType=CGL&zip=28327
Keep in mind that we owe 88.5 million for School Bonds in addition to the Obama Money Grants. Since everyone is so opposed to accepting gifts from the Obama Administration ~ Why don't TPo3 send the money back!!!
The TEA Activists need to get off their high horses and get the real facts. Just send the money back to Washington!
Not tax dollars! Wrong. 4 million in Stimulus funds is tax dollars from the Obama Stimulus Package. Those are the same funds that the TEA Party Activists are bitching and moaning about ~ more wasteful Washington spending except when they benefit directly. TPo3 requested those funds, but TPA endorses and supports wasteful spending on the local level. Perhaps 206.2 Million is small compared to the other tax burdens on the American public. The difference is our property taxes are affected.
"are paid for through user fees" when TPo3 packaged the debt into one nice and neat package to include their software licensing agreements and sales, the interest was effected as well on the entire debt. Just goes to show that business as usual in Carthage continues to cost us all. What was it Joe Garrison called it SOP - Standard Operating Protocol or Proceedure?
None 2 years, 8 months ago
JoeGarrison=> is that twice-the-price Grimm property even buildable with subliminal water issues. Do you have a link to a study by a reputable company like SM&E on soil and water tests? How many thousands or millions will it take to get that property ready to build anything on it now or in the future? What contengency plans are in place with cost analysis for engineering fees for water control, footings, materials, additional concrete, additional steel rebar? The meeting on June 21st, Dennis Brobst wasn't prepared to produce a document that the County was even in compliance with state and federal watershead act laws.
Is this going to be one of those: "we didn't know that was going to be an issue when we started building and taxpayers end up with several million in change orders"? Poor planning and management from the outset...plain and simple.
Arestorer 2 years, 8 months ago
I think the situation their trying to put us in is just like the problem todays society has with wanting what they cant afford and they want it right now. Not the way I run my house nor is it the way I want my government run. Put up only what we need!!!! And thats not whats happening.
Arestorer 2 years, 8 months ago
Lets just keep spending and spending and Mortgage the U.S. to China. Anyone that thinks spending this kind of money on a jail is "smart" is not.
plumblevel 2 years, 8 months ago
Joe I will have some land prices and comps by Monday. If you bought 20 acres for 10k it would be $200,000 the average price of what acreage around Carthage is going for. So, it would be an extra 200k investment but then you would not have to buy land later for a courthouse.
You claim that on the current proposed plan the building cost has come in under cost. That does not mean that the price tag is still way too high anyway. It also does not include the future cost of staff, overhead, and maintenance. Where does that money come from? I believe there goes your savings on the bid coming in under cost. Yes, you might save some on labor right away but building materials have gone up.
No studies were done on the Grimm property or they would not have completed the Gov Complex plans only to find out later they could not build both buildings, the Gov Complex and the Public Safety Complex on the site.
The courthouse study proves the current courthouse has reached its limit. So, why not scale back on the current Detention Center plans and go back to the drawing board for a better plan in this poor economy.Everyone will be a winner.The only loss will be the 1.4 million on architectural plans for the Grimm property Public Safety complex but I am sure the taxpayers will not mind if they save millions by building a one story jail and get a new courthouse.Matter of fact, all the commissioners would get a big pat on the back I would think.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 8 months ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
None 2 years, 8 months ago
No Plumblevel ~ "Matter of fact, all the commissioners would get a big pat on the back I would think." ~ not from me. They have ethical issues with software conflicts of interest, shady business dealings [SS,Inc.] with the county using taxpayer funds, and Caddell will still be on the Sandhills Community College Board of Directors - another conflict of interest; Mismanagement, out-of-touch with voters and taxpayers, and egos that overwhelm most of us until it's time to campaign again.
buddysmith 2 years, 8 months ago
i say again for the 6th time-40 to 50 million dollars for a jail?
MooreNorth 2 years, 8 months ago
No Buddy, not 40 to 50 million for a jail.
MooreNorth 2 years, 8 months ago
Toda~ Could you do another post? I've had a really long day , and can only muster a grin after reading today's entries. Starting to chuckle just a bit, Vermont maple syrup on my pancakes.
None 2 years, 8 months ago
MooreNorth => Moore County's logic for big spending ~ twice the price for everything: Twice the price for land - twice the price for a detention center - twice the price for Municipal Financial Software [note: it is compatible with QuickBooks Pro - though!] Taxpayers "money tree" won't bloom next year. They will have to fertilize it with "revaluation" courteousy of the tax department!
How about Vermont Maple Syrup on blueberry pancakes served to guests at the Lane Carters' Gold Bar Hilton - for brunch?