S.P. Steakhouse Up for Lease

moonchild7 2 years, 9 months ago

Just another in a very long, long, long, long, line of tax shelter businesses that NEVER open, and that this area is extremely prone to attracting. Hear that Chamber of Commerce? Hear that City Council? Why aren't more of these "business people" required to be investigated for possible fraud, when it comes to the type of business they want to start and the actual plans they have provided? RIP long gone cedar; we hardly knew thee.

SoPinesNo1 2 years, 9 months ago

I don't think this if fraud, I think that the ownership has realized that this area cannot, and will not support an over priced steakhouse of this type. The area does support a large number of local indepentently owned restaurants that have menus featuring a wide variety of quality food choices. The best steaks are the ones bought at the grocery store and grilled at home. Who wants to go to a restaurant and pay a premium price for a meal that can be prepared better at home on the patio.

theonewithsense 2 years, 9 months ago

moonchild, you are clueless about tax law if you think that anyone would rather lose thousands of dollars a month on an asset that is not growing to avoid paying taxes on the same thousands of dollars. Half of the money is always better than none of the money.

moonchild7 2 years, 9 months ago

Yes, I admit I am "clueless" about tax law...don't make enough to have to "shelter" it somewhere. This guy who owns the place said a few months ago that he needed another MILLION dollars to open the place! Did the City Council know this when he applied for the permits to cut that cedar tree down and build a big, tall, brick block? He was supposed to have that MILLION sitting somewhere as soon as the construction was done so the towns people could taste those juicy steaks. If he didn't have the MILLION, I say fraud and if he did but doesn't want to open for "other reasons" I say double fraud. It has to be a "tax shelter", what else could it be? The food industry is one of the very few these days that are still doing sorta well in this economy. He could price that beef a bit lower so that MORE people could eat there vs. high prices and less customers. This area is thankfully NOT in as dire a straits as so many others. Cannot say the same for cedar trees though.

TheNeedle 2 years, 9 months ago

"The best steaks are the ones bought at the grocery store and grilled at home."

Although if you want to go out, Beefeater's are pretty darn good.

debsalomon 2 years, 9 months ago

Perfect location for a Fudrucker's, which might solve everything:a "destination" eatery that would bring in cash from day one, reasonable prices, family and young-folks oriented, good location for downtown walk-ins. Of course the owner would have to lose some of that high-end decor and cop a franchise. Frozen yogurt part of it, hopefully Give people what they want/need and they will come. They want good burgers more often than steak..... Just an idea.

CSmithson 2 years, 9 months ago

Whether or not the restaurant is in operation, the property has a tax value of about $2.5 million. The property taxes they are paying on the building they built help lower the tax burden we residents of Southern Pines have on our homes.

I'd prefer to see a thriving business operating out of that building, but new restaurants fail at pretty high rates and it makes sense to be cautious. We certainly don't want another "cursed" building like the one that used to be where Smithfield BBQ is. Nothing ever made it very long there and it was finally burned down in a fire department training exercise.

Regarding the tree, there was no permit required to cut it down. It was on private property and not located in any kind of overlay area that would have required permitting. We lost the tree, but we did get the bonus of them tearing down the Red Room as well as the very much architecturally out of place former La Terrace building.

moonchild7 2 years, 9 months ago

Wow! $2.5 million tax value for the big, brick block! He needs to sell out now, add that to the MILLION he has/needs to open those doors and bada-bing, he's outa here. Sorry, this whole episode troubles me because these are the types who supposedly have the money to "get this country working again" but would rather sit on it for a better day. The better day is TODAY! Not tomorrow. The Southern Pines Steak House should be providing more than just property tax money to the town. It should also be providing, jobs, wages, tips, FICA, Medicare, Federal taxes, NC income tax, food tax, an electric bill, a water bill, and last but not least some good food. While we have several other steak houses here this one was supposed to "smoke them out". Maybe he'll still open or maybe he won't. Bottom lines are nefarious creatures.

RmeMP 2 years, 9 months ago

i believe a hooters on us1, where sagebrush used to be, would do excellant; and then put in a red lobster where johns bar b que was located - another lucretive business opportunity ;)

ps- can we PLEASE get a taco bell in the vass/carthage area?! lol

aub 2 years, 9 months ago

Moonchild, what are you so angry about? So what if other people choose to save money rather than start a business?

theonewithsense 2 years, 9 months ago

Moonchild, if you think it is a great idea, buy the property and put people to work. I imagine he'd sell the property in a heartbeat otherwise he would have opened by now.

After you buy the property, welcome to the world of small business. You can promise every thing you own as collateral to the bank, take a chance, hire people, work 70-80 hours a week (while stressing about it every waking minute) for very little pay until you get the new business rolling and hopefully it will pay off.

RmeMP 2 years, 9 months ago

now we all see why "moonchild" wants this place to open so bad - but let me allow him/her to use his/her own words:

"It should also be providing, jobs, wages, tips, FICA, Medicare, Federal taxes, NC income tax, food tax, an electric bill, a water bill, and last but not least some good food."

i am gonig wayyyyy out on a limb here and say that you are an oblunder follower - i can tell by reading your words, and how you don't care if this PRIVATE establishment goes out of business (for opening to early), just because you want them to start paying into the "welfare society" that we are becoming.

sad - really sad

Behan 2 years, 9 months ago

Does anyone else smell patchouli oil?

TooHot 2 years, 9 months ago

The main issue here is that the steakhouse KNOWS the $40 steak concept is not a good one in this economy or even in Southern Pines, which is hardly "high end". But I do disagree with those that say buying a steak at Fresh Market and cooking it at home is better. They've obviously never been to a Ruth's or a Morton's - they get better beef than the grocery stores and can cook it much hotter quicker, thus retaining the flavors.

RmeMP 2 years, 9 months ago

@toohot-

and i say that you obviously lack grilling skills; i 100% will take a steak that i marinate and cook myself over any restaraunt steak that i have ever had. i'm not saying that you cant pay for a great steak at ruth's or morton's (or anywhere else), what i am saying, is that if you don't think your home grilled steak is as good as going out - you are simply not doing it right :)

the reason i choose to eat out, when i do, is for a convieniance factor - not a taste factor; but maybe thats just me?

Woody 2 years, 9 months ago

Red Lobster is gross! Hooters, ok.

moonchild7 2 years, 9 months ago

Whew it's HOT out there! Just got back from buying more patchouli oil. Anyway, sure, I wish I could buy that place and open my own store but the funds just aren't there. Back in the day I wanted to open my own "Brownie Cafe" but the funds were never there then either. I wanted success and security, which I have, just never wanted extreme wealth to also define me. Those that have the means and the will to start-up new restaurants or retail store's have all my admiration. It's obviously long hard work with lots of bills, and problems to boot. Too bad this guy's business plan forgot the part that says...Gee what if this doesn't quite work out? Plan B is not supposed to be lets sit on it 'till the Gold Rush starts up again. Shouldn't he have had in his plan the possibility that he might need to rent the building out(considering he owns it)to someone else? In fact why isn't he renting it out to someone else? This recession/depression of 2008 to right now got it's start back in the days of Nixon and Reagan, not President Obama. The poor are NEVER supposed to prop up the rich like they've been doing lately. The wealthiest business owners amongst us should have no problem with helping to support our "Welfare State", with their huge profit margins only slighly reduced. How many Porche's or diamonds or Picasso's does one person need? And as far as steaks go...My family and I were fortunate enough a few years back to visit NYC and have dinner at Anthony Bourdains'(Travel Channel)"Les Halles" restaurant. That $50.00 steak melted in my mouth and was worth every penny. He's still in business. If the Southern Pines Steak House(when ever it opens)has no plan to try to do that with it's beef then it needs to finally throw in the towel.

BigE 2 years, 9 months ago

I was looking for commercial office space online today and coincidentaly saw an ad for this building. Unless the owner wants to find someone else to open the high end steakhouse, this puppy ain't happening.

@RmeMP- Listen, we had great, thick NY strips from Harris Teeter last week, but if you have ever been to a Del Frisco's or Ben Benson's or Peter Lugar's you would never say you could do it as well.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 9 months ago

"...the very much architecturally out of place former La Terrace building."

Awww, man, I kind of liked that old building. I don't remember when it was actually built, but something about it just screamed "1970s" .

Of course, I still get nostalgic for the old blinking neon sign that used to sit on top of the Capri restaurant across the tracks from the Town Center.

C A P R I

CAPRI CAPRI

Jeez, I'm starting to sound like Toda....

dustyrhoades 2 years, 9 months ago

You know if Pik N Pig did ribs, I bet they'd be great.

runorbike 2 years, 9 months ago

I'll have my steak cooked at home please. I never eat a restaurant steak....anywhere. It would be nice to have a Fudruckers or some place that offers a variety of cuisine at a price the average consumer can afford.

injuredlist 2 years, 9 months ago

Boy, I was hoping for a good night's sleep after having navigated through some rough days at work. No such luck. Dusty has thrown me into the Way-Back Machine.

C

A

P

R

I

CAPRI CAPRI

Stop it!! Stop it!!

Thanks, Dusty.

dogboy 2 years, 9 months ago

...does Hooters have a "Senior Section"?

DaveyNC 2 years, 9 months ago

Uh, moonchild, you may have noticed that the fellow who owns this restaurant does not have "huge profit margins" right now. In fact, he is undoubtedly in the red on this project.

He's probably not opening it right now just to torque you off. Be glad he was able to finish the building; it could have been much worse.

Tell me, moonchild, what would be a fair profit percentage for a business to earn? 1%? 5%? 30%? I'm curious to know what you think is fair.

recondo 2 years, 9 months ago

well shoot i was so looking forward to tasting a steak that had been slow cooked on the remains of the cedar tree that was chopped down. Davey i agree with you as far as the profit precentage for a business to earn. i heard a wise old man say one time that if you cant at least double your money on your product your not in business your in a sinking boat

intrepidreader 2 years, 9 months ago

I can actually give the history of the old La Terrace. It was built around 1970 or 71 by Johnny Ferguson and opened as The Golden Pizza.
Johnny Ferguson already ran Ferguson's Grill on May Street, which I think might have become May Street Market.

As far as I know, it was the first pizza place around here and very popular for a while with the young crowd. I left this area for many years and when I came back, it had become La Terrace and had been facelifted somewhat.

Bflat 2 years, 9 months ago

Here's another one... Clam Box. Remember when? I actually have a picture of it. And oh yeah...Park 'n Eat. Yes, Capri...I remember that one too.

sopinesobserver 2 years, 9 months ago

A Bogey for The Pilot for not doing its homework. A little effort would've uncovered this lease ad. Appears that the steakhouse owners have NO intention of opening this restaurant themselves.

CLIFT COMMERCIAL LEASING Southern Pines Steakhouse 270 SW Broad Street, Southern Pines, NC 28387 Front of Building

* Total Space Available:       6,500 SF
* Rental Rate:                 $15,000 /Month
* Property Type:                Retail
* Property Sub-type:       Restaurant
* Building Size:                6,500 SF
* Find Out More...

Last Verified 7/13/2010 Listing ID 16679151

$15,000 /Month $27.69 /SF/Year$ 2.31 /SF/Month $180,000 /Year $15,000 /Month Attachments

Highlights

* State of the art kitchen
* Wine room accommodating 3,500 bottles
* Restaurant licensed to seat 140 +/- people
* Property offers the opportunity for a high-end steak house to walk-in and open for business
* Offers a main dining room and one private dining areas that can be divided into two spaces
* The patio dining accommodates 50 +/-

Description

Prime Steak! Prime Location! Custom built and designed for top end steak restaurant. Located in the heart of downtown Southern Pines, NC, the Southern Prime Steakhouse is available for Lease. Completed in September 2009, the 6,500 sq ft exclusive property offers the opportunity for a high-end steak house operator to walk in and open for business immediately. Every detail has been thought through the state-of-the-art kitchen, large wine room accommodating 3,500 bottles, bar area, main dining room and one private dining areas that can be divided into two spaces. The patio dining accommodates 50+. The restaurant is licensed to seat 140+ people. The Village of Pinehurst and Moore County are the nation' s top destinations for world-class golf and vacationing. The Famous Pinehurst Hotel and Spa is minutes from Southern Pines. This destination hotel and resort attracts national and international visitors and golfers who enjoy the quaint villages, exploring shopping and dining opportunities. Over 1 million national and international tourists visit the area each year spending $349 million annually.

ncmom 2 years, 9 months ago

Although it is nice to have such a wide selection of restaurants to choose from, this county does not need another one. Now maybe the owners of this steakhouse didn't have such a good business plan, I don't know and to be honest it's not something I lose sleep over. I hear people saying "we need a so and so and we need a that". Well no we don't people! How about helping to support these small family owned and operated restaurants that we already have!! Are we not going to be happy until this county is so overrun by restaurants that the servers won't be able to support themselves? Because this is exactly what is happening now! So in my honest opinion, I wish them luck but as a server I have no problem with an empty building sitting there!

foregolf 2 years, 9 months ago

If anyone wanted an opinion as to what was going to happen to the tree, what type of building, if any, were to be built, and when that building would open, they should have bought the property when it was for sale and done with it what they wanted. I love reading posts complaining about what others do with their property. Put your money where your mouth is...

BigE 2 years, 9 months ago

Let's have a little business discussion.

A) The market will decide whether their is a need for a new product and service, e.g., a restaurant. If something is offered that provides good value for its price (and its price is appropriate for the demographic) it will do well. There is no reason anyone needs to support a "small family owned" enterprise if it does not meet your personal definition of value. Don't get me wrong, I try and support local folks, however, not at a huge cost or premium. Charity is a personal decision.

B) I don't know about "a wise old man" but when making an investment decision we all have choices. There is a cost to capital. If you can get a return that exceeds your cost of capital, you are creating value (for your owners, investers, etc.). Lots of people start businesses that have no chance at survival because they do not capture a sufficient return on their investment. Case in point, a number of golf courses in the region. Heck, I played the Elks Club for $39 and they gave me a coupon to return for a cart fee. At those prices they are not long for this world.

C) Regardless of value, the macro forces of supply and demand will tilt the scales for or against you. A stupid competitor can cost you a lot of money as they bleed to death. Vice versa when the tide turns you are welcome to make as much money as you can as long as you don't alienate your market so that they punish you when the opportunity arises.

From a personal perspective, I would love a Capital Grill, Morton's, Flemings, Del Frisco type steak house here. From a practical business standpoint, I don't think there is a large enough business community to really support it. Many of those places rely on corporate entertainment and expense accounts. Most golf groups aren't looking to do something that formal either.

teufelhunden 2 years, 9 months ago

I'd love it if a really good indian restaurant opened around here like Nawab. My mouth is watering just thinking about it!

SoPinesNo1 2 years, 9 months ago

Although the area seems to have plenty of bars, I believe that a good bar with a reasonable bar menu would be successful if the beers were also at a good price point. Some of the newer bars want to charge a six pack price for one beer. At those prices I'll stay at home, grill my steak, drink my beer, and not have to worry about the DUI on the way home because I'm already there!

greentara13 2 years, 9 months ago

I would hate to see any type of chain restaurant on Broad Street. I love to cook myself, so I guess I have higher standards of food quality, so I'm typically not impressed with chain restaurants. (The food is cooked in microwaves and usually has msg and other disgusting ingredients) I love to support local restaurants when I am able. However there are many factors involved. It has to a reasonable price for a good fresh food. There has to be great service. Etc, etc. Otherwise I buy amazing gourmet ingredients at a fraction of the cost and cook up a storm. I wish there was a good French restaurant here, with an emphasis on South of France type of food. I wish we had a Lebanese restaurant with some kicking Lebanese wines and even some bellydance! Woo! Patchouli! I wish we had a great Indian restaurant. Not that the restaurants here are bad, no, but the good ones here are very overpriced.
Taco Smell is so not an option! I wouldn't feed that food to a dog.

moonchild7 2 years, 9 months ago

I have no idea if this guy consulted with The Chamber of Commerce about the idea of opening up another steak house here or not. They are supposed to be the barometer of business trends and I guess they at least told the town of Southern Pines that a high-end steak house is just the perfect thing for someone to start-up. Now, if it's true that he wants to rent the place out for $15,000 a month, well, that's a lot of steaks. Using my simple math skills, if they pack the restaurant in every nite and sell $40 steak dinners to all of the 140 seats, 7 days a week, 365 days a year they might gross $160,000 a month or almost $2 million a yr. Not bad but that's staying VERY busy. Then if the owner lives in the back of the restaurant for the next two yrs, sleeping on a cot instead of feeling quite cozy in his McMansion he might make a profit after two yrs give or take. Profit vs Loss? Depends on how good the food is, how many customers you can reel in and how well word of mouth gets around. My son worked in two up-scale Southern Pines restaurant kitchens for three yrs after he finished classes at Pinecrest a few yrs ago(He doesn't live here anymore, he got out after college). One restaurant failed while the other is still in business. I asked him his opinion on why that happened and he said the bottom line was of course the food. One had a great menu, the other one didn't. Also, one had great management, the other had chaos. The succsessful business mantra says: "Give them what they don't have." Simple as that. Whether that be food, service, or ambiance. I still live in this town and pay city taxes, so that's why I'm bothered. We've been over run(America too)by FAKE business', FAKE business people and FAKE business plans. Does anyone have a clue yet?! Reality sure went flying off the cliff somewhere and is having a difficult time getting back in place. The SOUTHERN PINES STEAK HOUSE looks like another horrible bank building. I think we need another one downtown. Forget about food. Bankers seem to still rule.

OldSpook 2 years, 9 months ago

Okay, if an outsider may interject. I have traveled from African countries to South and Central American countries to European countries to the Far East. I have lived in more countries than I've been in states over the course of my career. So with this in mind, I would like to see a restaurant on Broad Street dedicated to my favorite foods of the world, the foods of North Carolina. Yes, you read that correctly, North Carolina. Why? Because there is great seafood found in fishing villages like Wanchese and Hatteras and let’s not even pretend that we've never heard of Calabash. Trucking in fresh seafood would be a piece of cake.
And who isn't familiar with the many regional styles of barbeque throughout the state? Heck I've eaten barbeque over on Black mountain in the late morning that was just like Memphis style and that night barbeque again in Dare County that is vinegar based. (Okay, I like barbeque) The pig farms are not really all that far away. And did I read someone mentioning ribs? Oh yea, we won’t even begin to count the many regional styles of sauces we have for those. Anybody care to argue the quality of Moore county peaches? Put those in a cobbler with some ice cream and that's just plain good eating. If that isn't enough there are the strawberries and blueberries. Seems some kind of fresh fruit is available spring through fall and is always great. And produce. Why would anyone buy produce from the grocery when they can get it from the local Moore county farmers? Everything seems to be pretty much localized. So now that I’ve solved the town’s dilemma, I think I’ll go to lunch now. Shame the Pik-N-Pig and Shuckers Oyster Bar (SOB?) are so far away…at least until tomorrow./Spook

listenup 2 years, 9 months ago

"It would be nice to have a Fudruckers or some place that offers a variety of cuisine at a price the average consumer can afford."

Are you mental??? We already have an overabundance of these type of crappy chain carbon-copy places.

Ruby Tuesday's Chili's Outback Applebees Olive Garden Hickory Tavern

These places serve basically the same thing with minor changes, with quality that is on par with fast food. If a Friday's or Fudruckers, or any other came here, it would just be more of the same junk. The problem with this area is people honestly think that Olive Garden is a "fancy place" and that the food is great...you can get the same thing from the frozen food section at the grocery store. Get out more, travel out of this area (and this region) and experience actual good dining, you will find it does not usually exist in chain establishments. Most of the locally owned places here are great, and the food is fresh and original, so it would be great for more non-chain places to open, the more the better. The last thing we need is more cheesy chain places. Before you know it, we will be just like Fayetteville. Ugh.

Bflat 2 years, 9 months ago

$15,000 month rent is very pricey, so it will be difficult to get someone to lease that building.

DaveyNC 2 years, 9 months ago

Boy, moonchild, you really don't understand how business works, do you? Your math is way off; you just calculated dinners for one person at 140 tables per night. When is the last time you went in to a steakhouse and saw all the tables with one person at them? And restaurants try to push "the turn" all night long. That is, they want to turn the tables and seat new diners every hour or so. So, the revenue could actually look something like this:

140 x 2 diners x 2 turns= 560 seats per night 560 x $60 per person = $33,600 per night revenue $33,600 x 30 nights per month = $1,008,000 per month revenue $1,008,000 x 12 months = $12,096,000 per year revenue

And that's for only 2 turns, or 2 hours service per night. I think $15K per month for debt service/rent could have been covered easily.

Now, the question of whether or not Moore County could support a place like that is an entirely different question. Personally, I doubt it, but hey--if he wanted to take the risk, it's his capital. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

I still don't understand why you think a fraud has been committed.

jrt5903 2 years, 9 months ago

I always doubted that this market could support a high-end steakhouse complete with large wine cellar. Location, Location, Location. It seems to me that the owner(s) must not be local people. I have no idea if this is the case, just saying....

Diogenes 2 years, 9 months ago

The building will stay empty for a long time at that asking rate. $15k/month is a big nut to crack. Assuming that your lease eats up 10% of your gross sales each month, you're looking at needing to average 100 covers per night with a per person check average of $50 to gross $150k. Good luck with that.

Davey, it's 140 seats, not 140 tables. And there is no way that any restaurant in downtown SP will average that kind of business year-round at that price point.

theonewithsense 2 years, 9 months ago

$15,000 a month for that building is very low. If they put 500,000 of their own money and financed 2 million, then 15,000 won't cover the mortgage based on a 15 yr mortgage. No bank would finance that building for more than 15 years. There is now way they will lease it long term for 15,000 a month.

15,000 a month is damage control.........

TooHot 2 years, 9 months ago

theonewithsense - FYI, most commercial loans are interest only with balloons where you would then have to refi or pay in full......the banks ALWAYS want their money "lent out". When you pay them back, you're done with them.

moonchild7 2 years, 9 months ago

So, this guy told the Pilot by email last week, "There is not really anything to report". LIE. So this guy also says, "We're waiting for the market to improve." Another LIE. You make the market improve by injecting new(legitimate) businesses and money into it. FRAUD?! You're kidding of course. The definition is: "Intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual." The most common types of fraud occur in the buying/selling of real estate, stocks and bonds. Where did the info come from that advertised a need or desire for Southern Pines NC to have to have an up-scale steak house? Where? I certainly don't know. I'm not in the mix so no one ever asked me. The cedar tree was cut down on 11-8-09, the building took another year to build(they built the Empire State Building in a year), and then on 11-6-09 the owner tells the Pilot, "we'll open next spring". BINGO. I knew something was very wrong right then. So, after reading that I decided to" have a look" for myself inside the place. Went to the windows and saw a very well done Madison Avenue type restaurant decor(Anthony Bourdains' restaurant I ate the best steak ever at, was on PARK AVENUE NYC and his place wasn't as up-scale as that!). Nice but not like that! I'm not really saying that the FRAUD was completely intentional. I just feel that so many people have been fooling themselves and others about so many things now and for so many years past that an awful lot of people are sadly completely personally deceived. Reality bites...I've learned the lessons on biting back.

theonewithsense 2 years, 9 months ago

TooHot, that is not my experience with my business loans which include a restaurant. That has changed in the last two years. Yes they will amortize a restaurant loan over 15 years and have a balloon at either 5 or 7 years, but they are not too keen on interest only unless you have enough unsecured collateral to cover at least 50% of the loan.

DaveyNC 2 years, 9 months ago

moonchild, you were really doing well until this: " I'm not really saying that the FRAUD was completely intentional." Because, you see, FRAUD is by definition, intentional.

What we have here is a guy who made some bad decisions and like the rest of us, failed to foresee the global collapse. That's not fraud. That's a case of bad luck and bad decisions.

Bflat 2 years, 9 months ago

Lots of "tree people" and other locals said they'd boycott the restaurant if it opened there. Is it going to end up like the BI-LO that was run out of town?

dogboy 2 years, 9 months ago

Taco Bell ? Isn't that the Mexican phone system ?

listenup 2 years, 9 months ago

The "tree people" should have pooled their money and bought the land if that thing meant so much to them. NEWS FLASH: you can do what you want with the vegetation on your own private property. Nobody even paid attention to that thing until they heard it was going down. The tree people are the usual too much free time on their hands, bored, or retired, or all three types that will no doubt soon forget about it, and wait for the next tempest in a teacup to get all excited about. I would bet that their boycott of the place would not make much of a dent.

S.P. Steakhouse Up for Lease

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