State Dispels Claim of Carthage Sewage Leak
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Twice in the past few days, teams from the state made useless trips to Carthage to check what turned out to be baseless charges.
The first team was responding to accusations that the planned site for a new county detention center intruded on wetlands, that the land had artesian wells and that a sewer line on it was leaking waste.
A careful and thorough exploration of that plot of land – which lies between Dowd and McNeil Streets behind the present jail – turned up none of the problems jail opponent and town resident Bert Patrick reported to the Fayetteville office of the agency.
A second claim, that Carthage was discharging raw sewage from its two sewer lagoons, also turned out to be false, according to Belinda Hinson, a surface water protection supervisor with the N.C. Division of Water Quality of the state Department of Environment and Natural Resources (DENR).
“We didn’t see anything that raised any red flags,” Hinson said Monday, after the second inspection trip last Friday.
She would no longer identify Patrick as the resident who had filed the complaint, saying that the individual had gone over her head to Matt Matthews, the surface water section head in Raleigh, objecting to making the name available to the public.
“We do keep names off the record on request,” said Hinson, who added that no such request was made at the time of the original complaint. She had told Rocky Davis, the town’s public works director, who had made the initial complaint at the time.
“Rocky said it was Bert Patrick,” said Town Manager Carol Sparks, still upset by the false allegations against the town and its workers. “She told him that’s who said we were putting raw sewage in the creek.”
Years ago, Carthage did have a permit for discharge, but that outfall area was inspected by the DENR crew and found completely dry, with no sign anything had been through it in a very long time.
Carthage sewage, after settlement in the two lagoons, is treated by the county facility in Addor. Nothing is discharged into Killetts Creek or any other creek, Sparks said.
“They used to discharge, 20 years ago,” said DENR’s Hughie White, who had returned to Carthage with the team last Friday. “We didn’t see anything. It was dry – I mean, it was dry. What else can you say?”
Rumors about sewage leaks and artesian flow have been checked and rechecked during the process of making sure the future detention center on the Grimm property meets all state and federal regulations, according to Davis.
“We don’t suspect anything illegal happened from what we had seen,” White said. “We had a complaint, several other accusations and concerns with the sewer line. We didn’t’ see anything.”
Patrick, reached at her home before leaving on a family trip, said through a family member that she did not care to make any comment at this time. Patrick unsuccessfully ran for mayor last year. Her main issue was opposing the county’s plans to build a larger jail.
In the past, she has been very active in the life of the town, particularly through her work with the Historical Committee and the Carthage Historical Museum — helping to keep it open for visitors, working to acquire and display exhibits, and spending long hours there as a volunteer.
The town commissioners voted earlier this month to remove Patrick from that town committee, responding to a report of her accusations from Davis. That followed the first DENR team’s visit to Carthage. The second inspection came later, on Friday of the week following the board’s action at its Monday meeting.
Contact John Chappell at jfchappell@thepilot.com.
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Comments
recondo 2 years, 10 months ago
Someone or Agency needs to look into whatever Chemical is in the Water that is making everyone in carthage go crazy. It has turned into quite the looney bin here lately on both sides.....
AbdominalDohMan 2 years, 10 months ago
I think blatant false accusations that tie up resources should be criminally prosecuted. That is two wasted trips to Carthage for false reports.
eflat7 2 years, 10 months ago
What about the alien airfield on the property? Where are the martians going to land if a jail is built there. I'm sure they won't like jail food. Maybe we could redirect them over to the Pikn Pig with lights on top of the new jaildetentionprisonhouse.
clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago
recondo ~ agreed AbdominalDohMan ~ agreed eflat7 ~ LOL
I wonder if the state officials are stock holders in Southern Software? They may be part of the "transparency conspiracy.'
babiehop 2 years, 10 months ago
Having certainty that all is as it should be isn't what I'd call useless, maybe just wasted. And just think - if in fact it proved true and people were consuming raw sewage it would go a long way to explain why so many are full of ~~~~~well, you know.
SoPinesNo1 2 years, 10 months ago
I don't know Ms. Patrick, but these inspections bring doubt to her claims. With the technology that is available today, it is impossible that the spills occurred, and were subsequently cleaned up so completely as to leave no trace.
eflat7 2 years, 10 months ago
I was just havin a little fun. I don't really have a dog in this fight. Except that I live in this county.
SoPinesNo1 2 years, 10 months ago
By the way, the Alien Airfield is on eflat7's property, He's keeping it secret until a fair admission charge can be established.
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
My, Ms. Patrick's fan club, aka the anti-jail crackpots, are awfully quiet this afternoon, aren't they?
SoBelle 2 years, 10 months ago
Then it's alright to spend 206 million dollars of our money without a vote of the people? Never knew Moore County was so generous. I thought we were taxpayers?
theonewithsense 2 years, 10 months ago
HA, I took a wizz on the property......raw sewage......
anonnyp 2 years, 10 months ago
Anyone know why I got a boil water advisory message yesterday from the water company???
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
What happened to the 2 people that witnessed "the leak?"
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
"What happened to the 2 people that witnessed "the leak?"
They were "disappeared" by the Mafia/Power of Three.
OldSpook 2 years, 10 months ago
Sorry Dusty, it was not the Mafia but the Illuminati. The alleged two witnesses never really saw a thing. Just ask them when they return from the re-education unit at Area 51 next week.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Look the claims were made for whatever reason and the claims were false so thats the end of the story. When claims are made the best thing to do is to investigate the claims and reveal the findings. No one should make claims that aren't based on sound evidence or facts. The facts and the the truth are all that matter.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Raw Sewage Spills on N.C. 22 By STAFF WRITER Friday, October 31, 2008
Perhaps The Pilot is in need of facts about their articles. Happens all the time - those line breaks.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
"A Carthage sewer line broke shortly before noon Thursday, sending a torrent of wastewater running down the side of N.C. 22 on the Southern Pines side of the Moore County Airport.
About 31,000 gallons of sewage spilled, Carthage Town Manager Carol Sparks said. Some of it flowed into Mill Creek.
Around 11:45 p.m., the pipe failed and untreated sewage started spewing out. It took workers until about 1:30 p.m. to stem the flow.
The wastewater ran down a culvert beside the road toward Reservoir Park."
"Sparks said the break in the sewer line had nothing to do with the construction work in the area. She said the line failed because it had a crack in it. She said that may date back to installation of a fiber optic line eight years ago."
One wonders how many line breaks occur without public knowledge? Only Carol and Rocky know for sure...but they're not telling!
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Mrs. Patrick should explain or tell why she said what she said or what sort of evidence or information did she use to base her claims on. I look forward to hearing what she has to say for herself. @Toda so I heard some folks were skeptical of your petition efforts, hows it comin? :) Paid any assault fines yet, and again I hope your wife is doing better.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Just so there is no misunderstanding Toda I do hope that your wife is recovering well and that she will be 100% very soon:)
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
Toda, what does the fact that there was a sewer spill in 2008 have to do with the fact that Ms. Patrick apparently lied about the town dumping sewage in 2010 (and then clumsily tried to cover her tracks by asking that her name not be associated with the false report)?
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
Photos do not lie. Wait and see.
Hey, did anyone read the story in Rolling Stone magazine about Birmingham, Alabama? It was called "How Main Street Ripped Off Wall Street" April 15, 2010 by Matt Taibbi. Birmingham built the Taj Mahal of Sewage Systems. Next thing you knew the taxpayes sewage bill skyrocketed. Everyone was in on it. All town council members, all the county commissioners, right up to Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, etc. It even included 12 contractors and left Birmingham dead broke. Interesting article. Sewage stinks.
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
So now plumblevel is against sewer systems? That's a little further back in the the "Good Ole Days" than I think most of your fellow townspeople want to get.
And "pictures don't lie, wait and see?" This has already been investigated and debunked and you're STILL clinging to it?
I don't know why I'm surprised.
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
The Pilot first reported of the supposed leakage from the lagoon into Killetts Creek that affects water in Lee County came from a source named Wanda Howard and not Mrs Patrick. Now all of a sudden the Town has a different story. Also, how much time passed from the time of the "leak" until the DENR got down to Carthage? It appears the whole (twisted) story hasn't yet been told nor all the facts (truth) revealed.
clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago
TheNeedle says..."Toda, what does the fact that there was a sewer spill in 2008 have to do with the fact that Ms. Patrick apparently lied about the town dumping sewage in 2010 (and then clumsily tried to cover her tracks by asking that her name not be associated with the false report)?" ....You took the words right out of my mouth.
Once again Toda is trying to compare apples to oranges. A break in the sewage line is accidental; dumping is deliberate.
But, making false accusations is wrong.
clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago
Bflat says..."The Pilot first reported of the supposed leakage from the lagoon into Killetts Creek that affects water in Lee County came from a source named Wanda Howard and not Mrs Patrick ....From The Pilot - July 21st. This is from Mrs. Howard's email -
"I have just received a call from Bert Patrick, who lives in Carthage, and is very much involved with the town of Carthage,’” Davis read. “‘She has reported to me that this morning it was discovered by a citizen that the town of Carthage is dumping raw sewage into Phillips Creek, which feeds into Deep River, which is where Lee County obtains its water supply. She has talked with the clean water supervisor in Fayetteville.’”
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
Hmmmm, so some citizen discovered the dumping of raw sewage and Mrs. Patrick just passed the info along to a Wanda Howard, Then Wanda Howard sent an email about a phone call with the info about the citizen that discovered the dumping of raw sewage. Hmmm...again, I don't see that this would be lying when passing important info along about a possible raw sewage dumping that could affect the health and safety of the area. It is better to be safe than to be sorry. It still sounds like not all the facts are being presented.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
"Sparks said the break in the sewer line had nothing to do with the construction work in the area. She said the line failed because it had a crack in it."
Needle ~ I have never met, spoke with, been introduced, emailed, written a letter or have never had any contact with her.
"Toda, what does the fact that there was a sewer spill in 2008"
Absolutely nothing. Sewer lines break in Old Pinehurst all of the time. That should be resolved soon with your extra 30% tax increase next year. You are a very generous person and the county thanks you as well as your check book. Did you know that you were going to pay for Carthage water and sewer infrastructure? Good for you ~ CBC should put a bronze plate with your name engraved on a manhole cover.
And if the raw human waste wasn't running down highway 22, rest assured Carol and Rocky wouldn't have said a word....out of sight - out of mind!
None 2 years, 10 months ago
clbvpm ~ "that a sewer line on it was leaking waste." [ARTICLE]
"A break in the sewage line is accidental; dumping is deliberate." [clbvpm] Please re-read the article and point out where dumping was mentioned and show the rest of us....
"“Rocky said it was Bert Patrick,” said Town Manager Carol Sparks, still upset by the false allegations against the town and its workers. “She told him that’s who said we were putting raw sewage in the creek.” [he said she said]
They should have gotten their stories straight before going to print.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
It seems a week went by between the time of the report and DENR visiting the site, no? Could be wrong. No wonder it was dry.
Why would the town council just remove Patrick from office. It seems they would be concerned over sewage leakage and want to look into it. You would also think they would like to ask her what she knew about it.Too bad concern for residents welfare was not their first priority.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
JoeGarrison ~ talking to the wrong people...about the petition. Shall I call you on the 4th for a foto op? Those family members are the same ones who supported Joe Boylan - before his court experience...and one of their employees - especially the one who was at the last CBC meeting with you. Does McNeil ring a bell?
Thanks for asking about my wife. No she is not doing well. Her visit with her doctor on Monday reveled that she still has a lot of septic infection but the pneumonia is clearing - slowly. More invasive procedures to come when she is well enough to handle the procedures. She and her sister-in-law Barbara H. were in the hospital one day apart.
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
The words used are "discharging raw sewage from its two sewer lagoons" in this article. The supposed Howard email says it was "discovered by a citizen that the town of Carthage is dumping raw sewage into Phillips Creek" (later changed to Killetts creek.)
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Joe ~ ask Larry if I should hand deliver the list to him to save him a trip to the MCBoE office?
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Bflat ~ I think The Pilot might want to write that article again like they do so many others and interview all of the people mentioned as opposed to he said - she said, Rocky and Carol sitcom. Then there goes all of the discussion and those advertising dollars. Oh Well.
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
I agree. Things are very twisted , indeed. Just show me some facts, which I have yet to see. Someone also prove where the testing or visual visits were done. I still don't really know where the supposed discharge or dumping took place. Also, I am not sure if the information passed along by an email amounted to lies. Apparently someone has photos. As the saying goes...one picture worth thousand words. Bring it on.
clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago
Toda, this article is all about the "alleged" dumping of raw sewage. ....From The Pilot - July 21st. This is from Mrs. Howard's email -
"I have just received a call from Bert Patrick, who lives in Carthage, and is very much involved with the town of Carthage,’” Davis read. “‘She has reported to me that this morning it was discovered by a citizen that the town of Carthage is dumping raw sewage into Phillips Creek, which feeds into Deep River, which is where Lee County obtains its water supply. She has talked with the clean water supervisor in Fayetteville.’”
Your 2008 article is about a leak...Now let me see, is that leak deliberate or an accident?
Apples and oranges.
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
This article does make reference to sewer line leak on the Grimm property: “We had a complaint,......... and concerns with the sewer line. We didn’t’ see anything.”
If you look directly at the bottom of this article under "More Like This Story," there are blue links to the other articles about the sewage spill on NC 22. Go there and read about it. Then you will understand Toda's comment: " Perhaps The Pilot is in need of facts about their articles. Happens all the time - those line breaks."
Further reference Hwy 22 spill: "About 31,000 gallons of sewage spilled, Carthage Town Manager Carol Sparks said. Some of it flowed into Mill Creek."
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
Why would the Pilot run a 'no news' second story and place it in the headlines again other than to smear Patrick's reputation? There was no new news in the second story other than a quote from Hinson.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Barbara is a good lady and my prayers are with her, Thats interesting about Brad though, congrats he told he didn't sign it:) Hey if you get the signatures thats great, the best man will win in November:) I'll keep praying for your wife. On the this whole thing about sewage and so forth, I just think Mrs. Patrick should explain herself and tell what compelled her to make the claims. Fair question I would think. Where there is smoke there is fire, well in this case someone yelled fire when there seems to be no smoke. I heard Gerald Galloway didn't sign the petition either, interesting.
xemrac 2 years, 10 months ago
If I found a problem with a water or sewer issue in the town I lived in, then I would call the town first to advise them of the problem before I called the State to file a complaint. Unless I'm grinding an axe.......
None 2 years, 10 months ago
On The Pilot article: too much "he said, she said". Perhaps more time should be spent on verifying information before an article is published for public comments.
Yea Joe I find it interesting that some "family" postures themselves as not being involved in politics and goes door to door supporting an alcoholic. Didn't Brad support JB as well?
When I deliver the petitions, then you, Larry and Nick can see who signed. We didn't need but 100....
Do you know former Southern Pines Chief of Police Gerald Galloway? I've known him since he graduated from Appalachtian State University. I haven't spoken with him in a while, but thanks for the tip...I'll call him.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Look political debate and so forth is good but when people start smearing others and so forth it becomes nothing more than mean and awful. I have written unkind things before in my frustration and anger over some of the folks on this site but hey two wrongs don't make a right. I don't know Mrs. patrick and I'm sure she loves Carthage, I just believe that she as well as the rest of us should explain or have factual basis to our opinions or claims. Not much to ask for. If nothing happened and it appears that everything is ok then she needs to explain herself. Facts are all that matter I have come to find out, yelling, name calling and so forth is worthless, facts and the truth is all that matters.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 9 months ago
I was doing some research into a hunch or claim that I made on an earlier post and I would like to share what I found out. The town of Southern Pines deals with OSSI or Sunguard for their police software, according to the police department they are very happy with it. For the record the town of Southern Pines pays a little over $32,000 in annual support fees to Sunguard, which is between $9000 to $10,000 more than they would pay if they had the same system the sheriff's dept has through Southern Software. Also for the record, the police department which cost around $10,000,000 to build in Southern Pines was a capital project that was not voted on by the voters of Southern Pines. So for those of you who favor referendum on buildings and spending and so forth who live in Southern Pines, you have missed out. I digress, I hope again that everyone on this site will understand that until evidence or real proof come up that impunes the employees or managers at the Town of Carthage utilities or other department, any claim is baseless, without proper foundation, and false until proven otherwise. You know Toda, Plumblevel, and others should remember something, if someone started hurling insults, baseless and hollow accusations at you or your families what would you do? How would you feel? Naturally you would feel wronged and abused. You would feel angry and hurt because malicious and false things are being said about you for others to read and think about. How do you think the individuals you have talked about feel? Again when there are no facts or there is a misconstruing of the facts then what is the point, if not only to hurt, maim, and malign others character and integrity. Is that all it is? Just one big effort to smear anyone who doesn't see things or do things your way?
CSmithson 2 years, 9 months ago
@JoeGarrison
For the second time, please stop inflating the cost of the construction of the new police station. You can quote the real construction costs(millions of dollars) and still make your point. There's no need to round up the construction cost by several million dollars.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 9 months ago
I'm sorry Chris that was the figure I had read, what was the actual cost of the facility?
OBXNC 2 years, 9 months ago
Just read in the FAY. newspaper there was a domestic sewage spill of 16,000 plus gallons in Laurinburg due to heavy rains. There is accidental sewage spills frequently in our state. With the state regulations on sewage handling I for one am sure no municipality would risk fines for willfully "dumping" sewage. This Carthage story I think has had alot of people that have good intentions, but was maybe wrong on some of the facts.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
Joe ~ we are not talking about Southern Pines or their police station. Apparent conflicts of interests and ethics are the focal point of contention. You keep asking for facts: fact is that Larry Caddell is the CEO of Southern Software, Inc. according to the North Carolina Secretary of State’s office under corporate filings: http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/corporations/Corp.aspx?PitemId=5028981 Fact is that he is a sitting member on the Sandhills community college board of trustees and votes on school budgets.
Fact is that he along with your father-in-law voted on these projects: Currently Underway
Addor CDBG Water & Sewer Improvements Addor Water Pollution Control Plant Upgrade Lake Pinehurst Sewer Lift Station Replacement Monticello Road Tank Old Town Water Distribution System Upgrade Pinehurst Wells 5A & 9 Regional Interceptor Rehabilitation SCADA Upgrade - EMWD Phase Vass/East Moore Water District Interconnect
Planned Groundwater Management Lift Station Permanent Generators Little River Regional Lift Station New Pinehurst Wells Pinehurst Well 13 Structure
Proposed Dunvegan LS-MR2 Elimination East Moore Water District Phase III Lake Pinehurst Sewer Line Construction Old Town Sewer Rehabilitation
Completed in the last five years
East Moore Water District Phase II East Moore Water District Phase II A GIS Mapping of the County's Sewer System Highway 15-501 Water Main & McCaskill Booster Station Jackson Hamlet CDBG Project Lift Station Number 14-1 Seven Lakes North Tank Rehabilitation Seven Lakes West Tank Rehabilitation Southern Pines Number 4 Lift Station Upgrade
And sold Moore County Utilities Municiple Financial software.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
Continued: Fact: The voters and taxpayers have no voice by exercising their constitutional right under North Carolina's Constitution: http://www.ncicl.org/nc-constitution
Sec. 2. Sovereignty of the people. All political power is vested in and derived from the people; all government of right originates from the people, is founded upon their will only, and is instituted solely for the good of the whole.
Except in Moore County where Block Voting by The Power of Three control the will of the people and the good of a minority.
Most understand you defending your father-in-law and the Moore County Republican Party. All of this would have been avoided if Larry Caddell and your father-in-law would have excused themselves from votes that have a direct correlation with Sandhills Budgets and on any county projects that use Southern Software. No one has said the software is inferior, in adequate, or more expensive. They may be above board when it comes to NC General Statues, but the smell of impropriated and ethical behaviors outweigh any good that they may do for this county now or in the future. Hard line republicans as well as most voters could care less about politics until it affects their pocketbooks. Then voicing an opinion is too late. If they are so sure they are voting for the good of the people, put everything out in the open. Then let us vote on how we spend our money. I question that the bonds would fail miserably. An on-line pole by The Pilot showed 63% of the people were opposed. Tell Larry and Nick to let us vote! Problem solved. You or anyone else will not hear another word about this from me again....
Bflat 2 years, 9 months ago
Mr Son-In-Law is angry, hurt & frustrated. Ironic, isn't it? And just how do the taxpayers/voters feel about certain actions and our voices and rights are ignored? Next, he keeps on and on about some other issue like Southern Pines Police Dept, inflates costs of the building (and reminded again of the error by csmithson), and then fails to compare apples to apples. Southern Pines is a Town, and the County is going to build a 600+ bed Detention Center in downtown Carthage at something like $40 million more than the police station cost. Pehaps Southern Pines Police had different needs in their building and software for its department. Perhaps its sofware support is more extensive and advanced than the County's. (I did say perhaps in regard to two totally distinct software support providers.) Somehow S-I-L has trouble making comparisons and comprehending facts that have been presented.
The subject in the article at hand with the Carthage sewage leak and/or dumping indicates that not all the facts have been told. The other side of the story from the 2nd hand information that was forwarded by email from a 3rd party points out that a citizen observed the dumping of raw sewage. It would be nice if that citizen came forward with the actual proof and whether there were other witnesses. It would also be helpful if Mrs Patrick came forth to tell about that citizen's report. Also, I'd like to know if a week or so went by following the "dumping" before the state did testing. Further, have there been any repairs to the sewage line that was reported as leaking on the Grimm site? As pointed out, sewer lines do develop leaks and following that there could have been a repair, hopefully. So no leaks were observed. Great! Again, the story as reported sounds sketchy and does not present all the facts.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 9 months ago
I was clarifying something else on the police station in Southern Pines and their software Toda. Again the issues you have raised are not really issues. When the software was given as a gift all regulations and disclosure were made and the resolution was accepted that would make it a criminal offence for Southern Software to use the jail as a BETA test site was signed by Commissioner Caddell and was accepted by the entire board of commissioners. Toda sadly I think you are beating a dead horse. The School of Government at UNC has issued reports saying that nothing is unethical about the giving of the software as a gift within the rules of the state of NC and also nothing wrong with the voting of the budget. So once again putting links and stories on the webpage is fine but its irrelavant because they are known already, Larry has never hid from the fact that he is CEO of Southern Software and that he recused himself when voting for the acceptance of the gift, and it was accepted by a unanimous vote by the MBOC. Where are the pages, evidence, tapes, documents, and so forth that prove the following: 1. Unethical actions by Southern Software and its employees. 2. Unethical actions by Larry Caddell or any other commissioner on the board. 3. Unethical actions by the county government or its employees. 4. Unethical actions by Sheriff Lane Carter or any official at the Sheriff's dept. Until you have shown actual probable cause and actual data and evidence proving the allegation they continue to be false and without basis and are being made for malicious and sinister reasons which are known only to you.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
Joe I was addressing the use of Southern Software for Moore County Public Utilities Municiple Financial. Was that donated as well or invoiced? Here is information about ethics in North Carolina: I have provided a link on Ethics that involved Duke University and how those issues correlate with North Carolina Ethical Standards.
http://news.duke.edu/reports/nc_ethics.pdf
One section (just an excerpt) is of interest pertaining to Larry Caddell's position on the Sandhills Community College Board of Trustees:
Which state officials are “covered” by the “gift” provisions? There are three general categories of “covered” officials: “Legislators” and “legislative employees”; “Public servants,” such as members of the Council of State, the Governor’s Cabinet, voting members of state boards and certain other state employees (including certain UNC and state community college board members and administrators); and “Judicial officers,” such as state justices and judges, district attorneys and clerks of court. The state’s list of “covered” positions and boards may be found online here: http://www.ethicscommission.nc.gov/genCatListPersons.htm http://www.ethicscommission.nc.gov/cboards.htm The state’s list of “covered” individuals currently serving in/on the above positions/boards may be found online here: http://www.ethicscommission.nc.gov/specificNamesPositions.htm Ethical standards are perceived differently by those who provide "gifts" to public officials and those who are elected officials who receive those gifts.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
From the North Carolina Ethics Commission's web site:
NC Community College System State Board of Community Colleges – Voting Members President and Chief Financial Officer of the Community College System President, Chief Financial Officer, and Chief Administrative Officer of each community college Voting members of the Boards of Trustees of each community college
I didn't write this - Voting members of the Boards of Trustees of each community college.
The Ethics Commission speaks volumns regarding ethical behaviors for elected officials and their appointees.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
1 N.C.G.S. §138A-15 (e): “At the beginning of any meeting of a board, the chair shall remind all members of their duty to avoid conflicts of interest and appearances of conflict under
[Chapter 138A].” There is no set language required by the Act. Specific language can and should be tailored to fit the needs of each covered board as necessary.
2 “A public servant shall take appropriate steps, under the particular circumstances and considering the type of proceeding involved, to remove himself or herself to the extent necessary, to protect the public interest and comply with this Chapter, from any proceeding in which the public servant’s impartiality might reasonably be questioned due to the public servant’s familial, personal, or financial relationship with a participant in the proceeding.”
See
N.C.G.S. §138A-36 (c). If necessary, the Chairman or individual member involved should consult with his ethics liaison, legal counsel, or the State Ethics Commission to help determine the appropriate response in a given situation.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
"So once again putting links and stories on the webpage is fine but its irrelavant because they are known already" Really Joe? They provide facts as opposed to just opinions. Correct?
None 2 years, 9 months ago
"Where are the pages, evidence, tapes, documents, and so forth that prove the following:" You left out investigations!
Perhaps The Pilot will at some juncture allow video streams, screen shots, PDF attachments. Until that happens, links will suffice from credible sources particularly government web sites.
SoBelle 2 years, 9 months ago
I just want to vote like an American Citizen.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 9 months ago
Toda thank you for posting the procedural guidelines but you are missing the point, what evidence do you have that these very guidelines were violated. According to minutes the chair consulted with the UNC School of Government and the county attorney to determine the legality of the gift, it was determined that the gift was in line with state guidelines, Larry Caddell who is the only commissioner who has a direct link to Southern Software. As you know Nick Picerno owns no stock in the company or receives no enrichment from the company, only health insurance. Larry Caddell recused himself and the Board voted unanimously after the appropriate inquiry into the ethics and legal implications to accept the gift from Southern Software. I'll tell you what why don't you set the time and place and you can share with me and anyone who would be interested the documents, the tapes, minutes, records and any other evidence of corruption that you may possess? I would love see these documents.
plumblevel 2 years, 9 months ago
Too bad N.C. is not a "ballot initiative referendum state" so we could have had a chance to vote on this issue of 50 million dollars for limited obligation bonds on the November ballot.
Bflat 2 years, 9 months ago
The article at hand regarding recent sewer "leaks" and / or "raw sewage dumping" by the town has been hijacked by SIL so he can beat the same old dead horse some more. SIL is making repeated demands for documentation that cannot be imported into these posts.
plumblevel 2 years, 9 months ago
Bflat When you supply documentation and statutes to Joe he ignores you and states that you have not supplied facts. What is the point of supplying him anything?
I repeat. Nick Picerno is owner of the Southern Software building, he founded the company, his son works there, he is on the Board, and his health insurance is paid for by Southern Software. Caddell is a CEO and owns 40% of Southern Software. Southern Software contracts to Moore County law enforcement, public safety, and public utility software to the county. These are facts.What part of conflict of interest doesn't Joe understand?
As for "Poopgate" time will tell.
Bflat 2 years, 9 months ago
Very well said. We should ignore any more repeated demands.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 9 months ago
Plumblevel what evidence do you have that Nick Picerno receives any monetary benefit from Southern Software? What evidence other than pure speculation and conjecture do you have that the guidelines which Toda so graciously provided us were broken when it comes to the giving and receiving of gifts in terms of the county's acceptance of the gift from Southern Software? I will make you the same offer that I made TOda, name a time and place and we'll work it out and lets invite Nick and Larry and others who may be interested, and I will listen and observe the evidence that you both have, not speculative, I mean hard evidence, bank records, tape recordings, minutes, actual documentation. My number is (910) 690-4511 if you would like to set it up. Toda the offer still stands for you as well, no mean words, just a pleasant meeting face to face and where the evidence if there is any can be seen and reviewed. I would like to also invite the media as well including the Seven Lakes Times, Fayetville observer, and the Pilot to attend as well. Also if any of you would like to talk it over with him Nick's Cell phone number is (910) 691-1150. I look forward to your responses.
plumblevel 2 years, 9 months ago
Joe, I would love it. I think we should meet at the State Attorney Generals office instead. However, I would like Nick to do a few things beforehand: 1.) Recuse himself from voting on issues that have to do with Southern Software 2.) Sell the Southern Software building that he owns 3.) Stop his health insurance paid by Southern Software 4.) Resign from the Board of Southern Software 5.) Not be influenced by the fact that his son works for Southern Software (impossible) Until some of these actions are taken we have nothing more to talk about. Back to "Poopgate" or is this discussion one and the same? Have a nice weekend.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 9 months ago
plumblevel lets be serious, you are in no position to make demands or pre conditions for such a meeting. It would be like me demanding that you leave Moore County because I disagree with you. Silly wouldn't you say? I am offering no pre conditions or anything that would prevent the meeting from happening, lets meet locally and with local people from your side and with those whom have accused and lets invite members of the local media and we can hear your evidence and see your documentation. Again I have given you a golden opportunity to show your evidence to all of Moore County. If you have the evidence you should not hesitate from accepting this offer, the same for Toda, and lets finish this once and for all. I hope you will share with all of us the evidence and documentation that you have so far neglected to share with the rest of the county.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 9 months ago
By the way is citing the fact that a statute exists along with it's text without showing the evidence of the infraction or violation of said statute constitute documentation or showing of probable cause, or evidence that is acceptable to the reasonable person? Just wondering:)
silentbob 2 years, 9 months ago
Plumblevel why does Nick have to give up everything and excuse himself from voting. Be real any person that has been a county commisioner had a job and a life other than being a county commisoner. I read one of your other post that said you would vote for anyone that gave you your voice back, what does that say about your real intentions in this debate. It appears to me that you want to be heard and you want things to go your way or you are against it. That is not how things work. Get over it, support Toda in his political race and I hope if he wins he lets you say what you want to and he votes for the things you want or you will start bashing him on here. Why don't you go to the state attorney's office and make all those demands to him about the Moore County commisoners and see how far that goes.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
"what evidence do you have that these very guidelines were violated”? State Law holds up in a court every day and provides attorneys an income challenging laws. According to minutes the chair consulted with the UNC School of Government and the county attorney to determine the legality of the gift, it was determined that the gift was in line with state guidelines, Larry Caddell who is the only commissioner who has a direct link to Southern Software."
"Impartiality might reasonably be questioned due to the public servant’s familial, personal, or financial relationship with a participant", Now that smells of conflict, doesn’t it.
So according to you JOe, North Carolina State Law doesn't apply in the case of a public official and a person who has a financial interest in a company as long as the Institute of Government says it's OK and the attorney who provided an opinion works at the discretion of the board?
I think the MCBoC should invite the State's Attorney General’s Office in to conduct an investigation as well as the North Carolina Ethics Commission.
Since you have no law experience, what you are asking for can only be produced by subpeona once an action is filed. Whoever is directing you knows that as well. It's a mute point. I'll go with what I've posted and let the readers decipher the general statues and ethics laws and how they apply to Larry and Nick.
BTW: was the Moore County Public Utilities software for Municipal Finance - invoiced or donated? Simple question....
None 2 years, 9 months ago
"Why don't you go to the state attorney's office and make all those demands to him about the Moore County commisoners and see how far that goes."
Good idea Silentbob! It goes a bit deeper than that though. But you're on the right track....
None 2 years, 9 months ago
O' Joe ~ Institute of Government at Chapel Hill! Didn't they rule that because Moore County doesn't have a town or municipality with 15,000 residents or more, then what Larry is doing by way of conflict of interest is legal but not ethical according to the NC Ethics Commission? Let's not parse our words here; if we had one town with 15K people, Larry would be out of office and perhaps standing before a court. Big time politicians like the former governor seem to meet their end in due time.
Bflat 2 years, 9 months ago
Very well said. Now I'll wait for the continued rant and demands for documentation from the one who just doesn't want to comprehend and chooses to ignore.
plumblevel 2 years, 9 months ago
Joe My five points above are my evidence that Picerno needs to recuse himself from voting on issues involving Southern Software. Frayda Bluestein, an expert in this area from the UNC School of Government, said it best, "If there is an appearance of Conflict of Interest," she said, "it is a judgment for the people of the community." I think you know how I feel about it. Let the rest of the community see how they feel about it in 2012 when your father in law runs for reelection.
silentbob Nick's "previous life" gives him a conflict of interest with voting on Southern Software issues. Nick does not have "to give up everything". He just needs to give up voting on issues where he has a conflict of interest. This issue will haunt him his entire political career unless he does something to change it.
bflat Joe now rants with new found humility but the demands have not changed nor his inability to read.
silentbob 2 years, 9 months ago
Like I said before and I have followed politics along time and if you look at every politician at any level somebody can always find a reason to say they have a conflict of interest. I can promise you if I was him this issue would not haunt me because he should know that he has done nothing wrong. Just because you and a handful of other people are pissed because you say that someone took your voice and want to get on a blog and make every issue you can does not mean a thing in the big picture. The new jail is not a conflict of interest for him just because the sheriff office uses Southern Southware. It is a simple fact that you don't want him to vote on this issue because he is not going to vote the way you want him to, just tell the truth. Toda with all the time you spend on here writing the pages you do you could have spend many days at the state attorney's office making your make believe case. I am one person that really thinks you and the rest know that you will not get what you want from doing that so you just sit in front of a computer and write about it. Also Toda it don't go any deeper than that you get on here and write all your pages of information that you pull from many locations so you can try and convince people that you are smarter than most. Its like I said before you are like alot of politicians that research things but only use the information that they feel like is going to benefit them. That is one of the oldest political tricks in the book. I don't know why taxes and spending bother you so much you admitted you voted for our current President that within the first year spent billions of dollars bailing out banks and the auto industry.
BradMcneill 2 years, 9 months ago
Wow! I thought the story was about sewage. Does anybody know who actually saw the sewage, and/or dumping? BTW One thing that I'm the absolute authority on, my last name is spelled with 2 L's Tommy.
plumblevel 2 years, 9 months ago
silentbob
Exactly. "He is not going to vote the way you want him to". Of course Picerno is not going to vote the way we want him to since this is a self interest project. Do you really think he is going to vote another way since Southern Software will be installing lots of their software in the Public Safety, Sheriffs Office, and 911 Center? Since his son works there, his insurance is paid for by SS which is equivalent to income, he owns the building, and he cares about all the employees and the company. Doesn't he serve on the Board and hope for great financial success of the company he created. How can he cast an unbiased vote? I suggest he cannot cast an unbiased vote so he should recuse himself from voting.
So, silentbob, if you have been in politics so long you should know all of this gives the appearance of conflict of interest. As an elected official how can Picerno be so arrogant to think he is above those who elected him to office and an exception to the norm. As an elected official he is expected to serve with integrity. I find no integrity in refusing to recuse yourself, when requested, from voting on an issue where there is the appearance of conflict of interest.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
BradMcneill ~ my apology Mr. Mcneill. First time I've seen McNeill spelled with a lower case n. So how did your support for Joe B go after all the door to door support? Did it all go down the tubes in one evening at a Raleigh watering hole? I'm sure the GOP appreciates your endorsements and your blind loyalty. Perhaps you should consult with my brother-in-law before jumping in on a web blog. Those who are associated with businesses that operate in this county may not want public exposure in this manner. Your commitment to support the GOP is noted; your representing more than the GOP but a private enterprise whose ability to do business in this county depends on public persona and customer relationships. Since you are not a public figure, consider your involvement.
Silent Bob ~ the new jail is not a conflict of interest for him just because the sheriff office uses Southern Southware [software]." You left out the Municipal Financial software as well as the millions of dollars being sunk into water and sewer projects in this county; BTW Bob how many of these projects did you vote on? Perhaps since you are an insider with the GOP, can you tell me if the Municipal Financial software was donated or invoiced? I know it is a mute point since no one else placed a bid. I wonder if the county ever heard of Quick Books Professional.
http://www.co.moore.nc.us/index.php/en/projectspw Just wondering? It's comforting to know that Moore County has citizens like you who have no concern how - when - why - for what, your tax dollars are spent for all citizens of this county regardless of where on resides.
Why not just give the CBC free reign to spend our money for anything and everything they so choose. Why even have another election? They are doing such a good job just like those representatives in Washington on both sides of the isle! They are spending millions without any recourse or accountability to taxpayers who pay the bills; sound familiar.
BradMcneill 2 years, 9 months ago
Well, I did ask about sewage.
difflook 2 years, 9 months ago
What the gentleman says a few posts up is not true, The Institute of Government gives their opinion, as to the town of 15,000 or not thats NC State Law, and my my, if Moore County had a town of 15,000, that Commissioner Caddell would be in front of a Court? For what? Wanting to return some of what he and the other owners of Southern Software have been blessed with to their HOME COUNTY, which he grew up in? Ive know Commissioner Caddell since he was a local Banker many years ago. I have observed him, give and give and give, Write checks to help out others, to causes that benefit the schools, the college, and for some to just basically continue to beat the guy, one of our own, who by God's grace has been blessed, is just not right. Lets use all this negative energy to help someone or some cause for people in need, God bless you all.................................
plumblevel 2 years, 9 months ago
Brad We are talking about real sewage here.
difflook Are we talking about the same Caddell here? The one who bought the Grimm property (seven artesian wells and wetlands) with the taxpayers money for 1.5 million? Take all the complaints against Picerno and add Caddell's 40% ownership of Southern Software.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
I have known Larry Caddell for years as well - when he was banking and married to his former wife DB. Before his two sons were born - L & H. As I said in another post, he was a good man. Now, his political prowess and position with SS lends itself to conflicts of interest as viewed by others in this county. His politics have superseded his ability to communicate with the people of this county. I’m not the only one who reads these blogs, or shares those thoughts - just one of several who voice their opinion.
At one time before blogs, whatever a politician said was written in the only one newspaper in Moore County or the Sandhills Citizen at the time, and Letters to the Editor were published after careful review with a discerning eye. There was no feedback by or from the masses on issues confronting the public.
Perhaps if Larry and Nick would recuse themselves from voting on any agenda item that uses their software, perhaps all of this commentary wouldn't be of interest to taxpayers and voters.
What you refer to as negative energy, I call freedom of speech, by way of our State and National Constitution.
"as to the town of 15,000 or not that’s NC State Law", that reference {15,000] was quoted by the Institute of Government at Chapel Hill. I see the reference as flying just below the legal radar...interesting that the revenue to SS from the county rises as laws change. It's all a part of public record. Did you happen to see Chief Deputy Neil Godfrey's power point presentation?
I really don't think God wants to be involved in all of this...I'm please to know that you a person of God. So am I. That's why I don't mix religion and politics.
BradMcneill 2 years, 9 months ago
That's what I meant Mrs. M. As in bull sewage.
None 2 years, 9 months ago
BradMcneill ~ it's a matter of what is seen but not said - I knew you were with Joe at the last MCBoC meeting before you got home...I also know about the family politics as well. Let me pose a question to you ~ we as taxpayers will be 206 million in debt long after the present board is long gone, we are paying about 3 million a year in interest on the last three school bonds that mislead taxpayers, are you really comfortable paying locally, the state, and the federal government debt service that will never be paid off? If not don't complain about how many months or hours per day you work just to pay taxes.
And if I hear one more time from the schools that they have a reduction in state and federal funding ~ I will go on a rant! Am I the only person in this county undersands that ALL of the tax money comes from our pockets? Where are the TEA Party folks who complain about Washington and turn a blind eye to what's happening here in Moore County?
If anyone thinks that the 3.2 million being spent for lift stations around Lake Pinehurst is not taxpayer money...you are in for a rude awakening. People are blogging on The Pilot web sites about stimulus money...but not when it comes to Pinehurst and Moore County! Hey folks it's your money, just packaged differently....
None 2 years, 9 months ago
difflook ~ the same court our former Governor Mike Easley's aid stood before and the same court that will hear his case(s) as well. It goes deeper than just ethics violations in some cases....
plumblevel 2 years, 9 months ago
BradMcneill Careful there. You might lose an account. Besides it is Ms.B fyi.
BradMcneill 2 years, 9 months ago
Sorry Ms. B, thought you were someone else. As far as accounts, I'll speak my mind and let the chips fall where they may. I don't base how I treat my customers on their, or my, politics. They know this, and a couple even call me just to argue from time to time. We don't dislike, or insult one another, we just disagree. Tommy~ I was indeed at the MCBoC meeting, but came and went by myself. Joe came over and sat with me, and that's okay because I like Joe. Had you been there, you could have sat with me as well. Which reminds me, how's Mrs Davis? BTW Still haven't figured out the family politics thing. I'm not related to any of these people.
BradMcneill 2 years, 9 months ago
Tommy~ I don't put everything in the same ball of wax. I hate taxes. I hate debt. Our government is charged with one purpose, to defend and protect. I don't begrudge those tax dollars, if spent wisely. I strongly objected to the purchase of the Grimm property, over price. Tried to get the MCBoC to buy my house using the same appraisal glasses, but no takers on that. I also found property, right by my house, they could purchase that would hold all of the county government offices, court house and all. That's in the past, and we're in the present looking forward. The Sheriff's space, and the jail, are not even near adequate for the present, or the future. It makes sense to me, that if we build it now, we get more bang for the buck. The 25 mil, actual number, could end up being 50 mil, talked about number, in the future.
bald_dude 2 years, 9 months ago
You all really want to make a difference!? If you are a Facebook user go to the Union Pines and Pincrest High School "Kohl's Cares" voting page and vote 5 times for each school. Kohls is giving away $500,000 to 20 schools and it is all based on votes. Union Pines: http://bit.ly/afZxBf Pinecrest: http://bit.ly/cuMAaz or go to http://apps.facebook.com/KohlsCares/search and search for each school. Thank you if you get involved!
BradMcneill 2 years, 9 months ago
Now if you want to grill the schools, I'm all ears, or eye's as the case may be. State and Federal, my blood pressure is rising so I'm going to stop here and pet my dog for a while. He's pretty good company.