Jail Opponents Resorting to Unfair Tactics

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Mr. McGraw,

I hope you have a very thick skin, becuase you are about to suffer the same scurrilous defamation and cheap shots of which you write. Best of luck to you, sir.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Mr. McGraw

Don't you sell windows? Are you hoping to sell windows to the New Detention Center and Sheriff's Department? Aren't you the one who put in a Tatoo Parlor next to a home on the National Register of Historic Places in downtown Carthage. Doesn't that Tatoo Parlor have a NEON light on all the time? Are you the same one? Doesn't your wife work for the County?

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Excuse me. That is spelled Tattoo.You work at the Carthage Museum and you brought a Tattoo parlor to Carthage. It is no wonder you are supporting a prison. Why don't you list some 'lies' so they can be addressed rather than hiding behind fictional writing?

JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago

Mr. McGraw, thank you so much for standing up for the truth and for what is right. The individuals on this site have chosen to abandon reason and sound facts and have decided to slander, demean, and belittle their political opponents rather than debate them with facts. I have defended Larry Caddell, Nick Picerno, Jimmy Melton, Lane Carter, and Neil Godfrey and others because I find them to be honorable people. Which is more than I can say for the opponents of the jail. Thank you again.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Joe Why are the opponents to the jail dishonorable people? Be careful. You are Secretary to the Republican Party and over half of the opponents are Republicans.There is also no way to know how many opponents there really are. Has any one taken a survey since the Pilots article came out. I bet there are a lot more than you think. Citizens of Moore County do not like their vote taken away. As you wrote with great sensitivity to a retiree of Moore County, "You win some. You lose some." Joe you only build resentment to your father in law Picerno with comments like that.

Since when have you listed a single fact on any blog anywhere.You can join the list of fictional writers along with Lee McGraw. List one single fact so it can be addressed. I will give you a fact to address. How can your father in law Nick Picerno and Neil Godfrey be members of the Tea Party when they are supporting spending 50 million on a prison that is not needed at this time? You are the Secretary of the Republican Party, how do you support wasteful government spending in this economy? Doesn't that fly in the face of what the Republican Party stands for?

None 2 years, 10 months ago

"The Moore County Board of Commissioners actually did a slide presentation at its last meeting that corrected comments and accusations made by opponents to the detention center."

Perhaps I missed the Power Point presentation by Chief Deputy Neil Godfrey; was that the one you are referring too? I was there in attendance. Sat right accross the isle from Sheriff Carter. Always enjoy talking with him, about the old days. But please allow me to provide my point of contention with the presentation by providing an observation:

Description of Statistics: A typical objective in statistics is to describe "the population" base on information obtained by observing relatively few individual elements. One must learn how to sort out the generalizations contained within the clues provided by the "sample data" and "paint" a picture of the entire population. The sample data are converted into usable information (this USABLE information is applied to the sampled population and these conclusions or answers are called inferences). There is a sequence of events used to illustrate the Statistical Process to produce real data!

A line chart and numbers thrown out to the public lends itself to a vision of incompetence when no verifiable data was presented by anyone who offered a presentation on Monday a fortnight ago.

How about local town hall meetings with question and answer sessions since we are paying the bills? How about published data based on a viable Statistical Process to confirm those numbers tossed out there without supporting facts?

Honorable people Mr. Garrison? I would say that about my late father-in- law as well. I'm an honorable person: I attend church every Sunday, I've never been charged or convicted of a criminal offense, and I’m a Mason [blue lodge] and a 32 degree Shriner - York Right - Charlotte. And you are? Secretary to Moore County GOP and have an interest in supporting Larry Caddell, Nick Picerno and Jimmie Melton. So that makes those of us who ask for a right to vote and transparency in government complainers, detractors from the facts, whiners, discontented taxpayers, and any other adjective that will stick. It's called the voice of the people ~ that's why we are Americans!

GoldenDreams 2 years, 10 months ago

Plumblevel, thank you for all the information about Lee McGraw. I see how all the little pieces fit in this detention puzzle and how business and politics work.

Joe Garrison, you may be very surprised at how many people do not want this detention center, and yes, we are honorable people. You think you have all the Republicans and conservatives and church-going crowds on your side, but I'm here to tell you it's not true. People are not happy with the way you and your father-in-law and Larry have done business. So what brings you back to the boards anyway? Did you get the OK from Nick? Is he running scared?

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Perhaps the sleaziest tactic being used is the constant attack on people's families. "Aren't you related to..." That's just low.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

So plumblevel, what do YOU do? Since you like to attack the integrity of anyone who has the courage to put their real names on their words, who are YOU? Don't the people have a right to know? You think families are fair game, well, who are YOUR people?

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty It is a fair question. If one side of a family is opposed to something and another side of the family is for it wouldn't you like to know the cause of the divide? Or why they grew so far apart? Especially when one side of the family is biased and the other feels strong enough about the issue as to take it to the N.C. House of Representatives. Politicians are also fair game. Give me a break.There was no attack on the Clodfelters here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion including me and the Clodfelters. It is not sleaze.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

And your real name is?

silentbob 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty alot of the stuff on here is low. In one blog they write about the crime rate and how the District Attorney is making deals and turning criminals back out on the street and then they turn around and oppose a bigger jail to keep criminals in. I have read most of the threads on here and one thinks he can win a write in election (not going to happen) and another most live a pitiful life when he is not on the computer talking out both sides of his mouth he is watching movies like Forrest Gump and Dumb and Dumber so he can quote lines from them on here, how pitiful is that. I think you hit the nail on the head when you ask him was he 8 years old.

eflat7 2 years, 10 months ago

Perhaps the sleaziest tactic being used is the constant attack on people's families. "Aren't you related to..." That's just low.

Dusty, I agree. I just saw a pig fly.

SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago

Silentbob => Bob Hunt are back on here? Don't you have customers to wait on at Southern States?

OldSpook 2 years, 10 months ago

Perhaps this is a naive question, and if it is then please forgive me, but is this new Detention Center bringing any new jobs to the area? After the initial construction, the Detention Center will require staffing for guards along with other Center support personnel which could be hired from in and around Carthage.

Wouldn't Southern Software be bringing on new professional and support personnel also? If so, then these would not be low paying jobs as security clearances, education and experience will be required. Does anyone know if employment projections have been made?

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

I see SCC student is willing to reveal others' names while still hiding (and sending me threatening e-mails) behind his alias. Coward.

SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago

Like I said => I received your threatening email - one deserves a response. The only Coward is you....Out behind the wood shed and winner gets off the boards.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

And your name is?

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

And my e-mail merely invited you to call me what you called me on this board to my face and see if you liked what happens. Still waiting for that, you little cur.

eflat7 2 years, 10 months ago

Cur? I'm dying laughing over here. I had to look that up.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

What happened civil discussions? Dusty you made a sneering remark at him and he retaliated. Is he to accept your remarks and needles? The Pilot should stop all this before it gets out of hand. Who is going to win a fist fight on the courthouse square in Carthage? I know SCCstudent but I’m not taking sides; both of you are wrong.

How about both of you start acting like adults and stop the degrading remarks?

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda: SCC Student said, right here, that he "thought I might be a pedophile." That crossed a line, especially since I spend a good portion of my practice representing the interests of abused and neglected children in the courts of this county.

If he doesn't know where that line exists, I will be glad to show him personally. But he continues talking smack and hiding. He doesn't have the guts to say it to my face, or to apologize.

So, how about it, SCC? You like movie quotes, here's a favorite:

You gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago

Are the taxpayers/voters/citizens that are speaking up about the soon to be built monstrosity DC in Historic Downtown Carthage not entitled to address the issues? Most of us object to the site upon which it will be built and the magnitude of the costs that have been so quickly pushed through. Most of our citizens didn't know the super size or cost of this huge high rise 4 years ago. This statement doesn't mislead the public, does it? Go back and research it carefully. And for the record, the Town Commissioners should tell us exactly what they were told by the County Commissioners that the "Governmental Complex" would be the Sheriff Dept and jail would be expanded a little," in order to get the zoning changed. Little did the citizens know at the time that a huge DC with around 600 or more beds would be built on that site. Did it not go round and round as to where the courthouse would be placed? How about the feasibility studies, that should have been done in advance? I really don't care if Southern Software is the best company in Moore County or the U.S and I don't care who is related. It's the way this whole issue of the DC has been handled, the size of the facility, the location, and the huge impact (costs) it will have on the future of our County and the Historic Town of Carthage will be destroyed by this huge "prison camp." If all the people that are purported to be so honorable that are shoving the project on through, why are they now jumping up to say the concerns of the citizens are lies and innuendo? To me, that says "All ya'll just shut up cause you're getting a DC whether you like it or not and we don't care what you think." Isn't that the attitude of the Pro DC group? Now all those that think Southern Software is so great are jumping in to launch a defense against a group of citizens.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

I think your question to him was, "What are you eight"? Why would you ask his age? Think long and hard about your interest in a physical conflict. I'm trying to mediate here. Perahaps posters should measure their comments before posting. I agree, a lot cross the line.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"I think your question to him was, "What are you eight"?

And if you think that justifies suggesting that I might be a pedophile, then we have nothing to discuss or mediate. You decide which insults are intolerable to you, and I will do the same.

Has the little doggie run off with his tail between his legs to hide behind yours?

silentbob 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda I agree but everytime SCC student opens his mouth he shows his age (which is somewhere in the 8 to 12 year old range). All he does is talk junk with nothing to back it up. SCC student another stupid comment by you, not surprising I am not Bob Hunt and I don't work at Southern Software. I said it before you and Toda both know me and I can promise you that if you keep making slanderous comments about people it is going to bite you in the behind. I am not referring to me because I don't pay much attention to children who live in a fantasy world but calling Dusty a pedophile is way over the line. I am in agreement with him I can promise you that you would not make that mistake but one time in the real world. Go back to watching movies so grown people can have a decent discussion.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Oh where, oh where has the little dog gone? Oh where, oh where can he be.....

RmeMP 2 years, 10 months ago

wow DR -

and you are supposed to be a professional attorney, who is making threats towards people on a public board? i bet when it is you who needs an attorney, he/she won't think that is to smart...

its called thick skin - invest in some, and mature a little!!!

Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago

One thing I notice is that the Pilot printed an article about Colon McKenzie back in 2008 that had to do with his parting comments. That article said the "software" was a gift of about $250,000. Now it is reported that it is valued and sold at $350,000.

Just give the people of Moore County all the facts up front before ramming stuff through in the manner it has been done. That is why this whole mess has gotten to this point, why people are upset, and why government isn't effective. The shove through tactics do not sit well with the taxpayers in this economy. We are the ones that will be paying for a long time to come. People are struggling just to get by now, unemployment rates are high and businesses and stores are closing. Top that with the worst possible location in the center of Town that just makes no sense at all.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

RmeMP: When someone suggests you might be a pedophile, then you can decide if that's intolerable to you or not. There are some things about which I am willing to be completely unreasonable, and this is one of them.

And where's the threat? I've merely invited SCCStudent to repeat his comments to my face. But now he's run away, leaving others to take up his banner.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty ~ what's your problem? Yes - I will take up his banner. You come on here thinking because you are an attorney and a writer for The Pilot, you can insult people - I'm most certain that he would have no problem saying something to your face! What is that going to accomplish. You two want to fight in front to the courthouse? What time and when? Do you want Judge Jim Webb to referee? Or the Moore County Bar Association?

Every board you have some sarcastic remark to make toward someone or their opinions. After you've insulted everyone on the boards - what then. You want to dominate? If you asked me if I was 8 ? I would ask you what's your point or reason for asking. Perhaps you should craft your snippets better like an adult as opposed to a school yard bully. Let it go....

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda: for the last time, and I'll use small words: I accept a lot of insults here, without complaint.

But there's a line. He crossed it. He's hiding behind a false name to do it.

That's my problem.

If he has no problem calling me a pedophile to my face, let him do it...and accept the consequences.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

What consequences? Where would you like to fight him?

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Use whatever words you like? Hey we can make this a public pay-per-view event! Stop asking stupid questions and perhaps people won't cross your line!

eflat7 2 years, 10 months ago

I won the ipad. ;)

Sally244 2 years, 10 months ago

I'd like to suggest that anyone who's against the new jail make an appointment to visit the jail before you are sure of your opinion. I had the opportunity to do just that and there is no question in my mind that a new jail is sorely needed. Despite the antiquated facilities, the professionalism of the officers and all who work there is beyond reproach. There is no question in my mind that a new facility would not only be safe for the community but would also become a source of pride for the county.

It sounds like most of the arguments here are based on the fear of the unknown. Take a tour and then make your informed comments.

LeeMcGraw 2 years, 10 months ago

Almost Unbelievable! I ask for truth, and instead of any knowledge whatsoever preceding the pen, we get more lies. For those of you who have read the comments above, please let me answer the ones that are plumb stupid. Let's see...PlumbsLevel seems to be the most in need of repair, so there I will begin. I have represented this Window Manufacturer for almost 12 years. Your accusation would have made sense, except for the minor FACT that we don't make or sell commercial windows or doors for that grade of Commercial project. A simple phone call to me with a towel muffling your voice would have saved you the necessary apology. I accept. Bless your heart. Secondly, Plumblevel is worried about a Tatto Parlor.( I own the Marion Building next to the house he is refering to. The house is beautiful inside and out. When they bought it , the Marion Building was trashed.(next door) Someone had a pool hall in it and then it was used as a rummage sale place with trash all over the floor. I have photos for all to see. I am a Republican. I rent to the Democrats. They are very good tenents and I am blessed to have them. I am also blessed to have each and every other tenent. There is a really nice Dance Studio in the back. We have a Karate Class that shares a space with her. A small Government office is in the building. Across from that is a Facial and Massage therapist. The Tattoo Parlor recently moved to the front. It is a really clean and well run business. Roger is a really neat guy to talk to if you would like to actually know about the business, rather than run it down. The same Moody house was bought with a really shabby house across the corner that has gotten no better (currently refrigerator and other appliances on front porch) NAPA, a nice business is across the street and the government has put a day reporting center, where people hang out and smoke. (Now how is my building, which I allow no loitering, bringing down their home?) I also cleaned up a back alley which was rat infested. Does anyone know this? You do now. I invite you there to see it. PlumbLevel stated that I worked for the Carthage Museum. NO, Dr. Factoid, I do not. I was a volunteer and served on the comittee for about 10 years. I currently am not on the committee. I enjoyed it and respect the work done by others in the past and present. If you are not involved in anything that helps the town, give the Museum a try. You will find that homes and business's have been co-existing all over Carthage. I accept your apology...bless your heart. Yes! My wife works for the County! You got one right! Way to go! Unfortunatly, it is about as relevant as growing watermelons and skydiving. no need to apologize...but bless your heart anyway. Ok...so you have the information corrected now. I have a copy of the county's presentation at hand if anyone wants that. Either way, my point is that you not lie, exaggerate, dramatize, or create fiction. This holds true for all issues.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Sally244 ~ I haven't seen any posts in opposition to a need for additional bed space. The issue has been why 52.5 Million for 300-600 beds. Is the Sheriff trucking in prisoners? As I've said in other threads, build small and spend small. Are you comfortable with $200,000,000.00 in debt plus interest? If so you are considered a proponent for decades of debt to come. I respect your opinion. Have you had your property appraised by a certified appraiser lately? If not, you may want to, and then have it appraised after the multi-story Detention Center is erected….just for comparison.

clodfelter37 2 years, 10 months ago

Amen Cousin Lee

OldSpook 2 years, 10 months ago

Mr. McGraw,

Thank you for a most enlightening post. I for one enjoyed your well thought out response and offer my most sincere apologies if I have impugned your honour in any way.

Presuming I have your forgiveness, may I restate my previous query about how many jobs this Detention Center is expected to bring into Carthage? Is Southern Software expected to hire from the local populace programmers, technicians and perhaps some Project Managers (ahem) requiring security clearances?

Best regards, Dave

missd 2 years, 10 months ago

what about building a drug rehabilitation center and force drug dealers to pay fo it

BAMAMA 2 years, 10 months ago

Lee McGraw ~ Thank you for your editorial. I agree with every word you wrote. This is childish. I will affirm that a few months ago I felt there was a conflict of interest with Mr. Chaddell. I even posted a blog to that effect, for which I am truly sorry. But, after reading the comments posted on this site for a couple of months, my opinion has changed. What changed it? I did not take someone's words as truth, I investigated on my own.

I do not agree a $50 million dollar bond should finance the detention center. I do agree that a detention center is greatly needed. I don't care where it is built. I do not agree with the purchase price for the Grimm property, but it is a done deal. Three of the current commissioners have been crucified on this site for that purchase. I asked in a previous comment who the commissioners were when the purchase was made. Plumblevel said "Colin McKenzie, Michael Holden and ?" Was Caddell, Melton, or Picerno a commissioner at that time? I really can't recall, but they have had their names "drug through the mud" because of the purchase.

As to the software used, I randomly called and spoke with personnel at detentions centers from across the state. I told them the reason for my calls. I made several calls before I found five who use Southern Software and five who do not. The cost of Southern Software's product is in line with other companies, even cheaper than two who provide the same services. Toda indicated that he could buy the same software for $999.00. I respectfully disagree.

Sally244 ~ I wholehearted agree. I was given a tour of the detention center when I served as a grand juror. It was an eye opening experience.

GoldenDreams 2 years, 10 months ago

To Bamama: You mentioned calling some customers of Southern Software to inquire about the product, but you only said the price was cheaper as compared to similar services. What's interesting is under "Software Conflict Becomes an Isuue," July 7th, It's The Truth wrote that he/she actually asked 6 deputies and 6 city officials about Southern Software. They said not all the features work and it's difficult to get support. Then he/she phoned some out of state customers and they also said there were problems with repair. It's the Truth summed up that he/she was concerned about Southern Software's systems working properly for our emergency personnel. That's another point to consider. Read it for yourself.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Bamama Morgan,Lea, Caddell,Melton, and McKenzie were Commissioners at the time the Grimm property was bought. Lea is the only one who voted against it. McGraw Maybe some people do not think a Tattoo parlor next to their home increases their property values no matter how nice the people might be who work there Don't forget who got you elected. The Stop the Detention Center group threw their support behind you. In hindsight if they had not Ronnie Grey would have beaten you. So, what did they get for your appreciation is this article?

SANDHILLSK9 2 years, 10 months ago

Just one from the Sideline: I posted my Point of View earlier and hate to repeat my self!

Reading all entries here and cross the pilot on this subject I have to say: I'm disappointed where every blog run into and end up with!

I do know some Bloggers by person and some know me and what I stand for. So my identity is out and for my avatar.. I'm ugly so this one serves better!

DUSTY: Is a Lawyer and with this, he is on the other side of the Law then I'm - Does this makes us enemies? NO!! Does this makes him a bad person? NO!! Would I sit down and have lunch with him? Heck Yeah anytime!! Do I bless any point of view he stands for? NO!! But I would reach him still my hand at any time and always have a nice and friendly word for him!
TODA I don't even know what he is, what I do know he got some good points, I do see with the same view and some points we might do not agree on. Does this makes him a bad person? NO!! Would I support the points we do agree on? YES!! Would I sit down and have lunch with him? Yes any time!!
SCC you did cross the line with Dusty, lucky you it was him and not me! Have this said you might should make up for it!
CHUCK most of your comments are funny and hit the point! Join us for lunch!!

Please all stay with the FACTS and your Point of View - leave this name calling and insults to people who can't write and read! With cheap shots you might win the fight but you will lose the war! Here on this Blogs we are changing nothing at all - Lets Vote!

Ross 2 years, 10 months ago

plumblevel - Look on the bright side - at least you don't have to go far for another tattoo......

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Thanks, SandhillsK9.

And, for the record, I have, in fact, sat down and had lunch with him and hope to do so again. He's good people.

BAMAMA 2 years, 10 months ago

GoldenDreams says... "To Bamama: You mentioned calling some customers of Southern Software to inquire about the product, but you only said the price was cheaper as compared to similar services. What's interesting is under "Software Conflict Becomes an Isuue," July 7th, It's The Truth wrote that he/she actually asked 6 deputies and 6 city officials about Southern Software. They said not all the features work and it's difficult to get support. Then he/she phoned some out of state customers and they also said there were problems with repair. It's the Truth summed up that he/she was concerned about Southern Software's systems working properly for our emergency personnel. That's another point to consider. Read it for yourself"

I did read it. Did you read this? BAMAMA SAYS.... "I did not take someone's words as truth, I investigated on my own."

Might I suggest you do the same? It is time consuming, but the information you obtain is worth the time.

wpatrick 2 years, 10 months ago

I think that angles are being looked at, because to continue to push to put the detention center across the street from our only little elem school, across from the Baptist Church and across the street from the public library is so wrong that there must be a reason. The original application to the Carthage Town office talked about a governement office complex, a 911 center and a sheriff's dept. The expansion of the jail was mentioned as a possible future plan. This can be accessed from the carthage town hall dated july, 2007. Zoning change was approved at the Aug. 2007 carthage town meeting. It was one thing to ok a office building, but somehow the focus has some changed and the only building that will be placed on the site is a 110,000sq ft jail with sheriff's office and 911 call center (44,000sq ft.) What about our children? Don't they deserve, while they are in their classrooms and on the ballfield, to be free of fear and exposure to the worst criminals Moore county and the surrounding areas have to offer.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

BAMAMA ~ "Toda indicated that he could buy the same software for $999.00. I respectfully disagree." Perhaps you might read my post again and click on the link that I provided. What I did say and provided a link was, "the software used to produce the movie Avatar was quoted to me for $999.00. It is an applet to CAD systems for design. Southern Software according to figures from Neil Godfrey $350,000.00. That dog won't hunt!

Here's the link again: http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/index.html

Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago

Moore County is already over $100,000,000 in debt, according to reports in the Pilot. Add to that another $50,000,000 for the DC, Sheriff Dept & expanded EMS 911 call center . Listen up folks! How much is the new court facility going to cost? That hasn't been brought up yet, has it? It sounds to me like we're going to be up to or over $200 MILLION in debt before it's all over. Now, who is going to pay for all of that? Where is the money going to come from. READ MY LIPS...No New Taxes! Not in this economy. While I agree that Moore County has some growth, a little county with the current population doesn't need over $200 Million in debt. It is going to result in a lot of new taxes. I am not going to apologize to anyone for point out the reality of what is going to happen. Someone explain to me how the facilty is going to be paid for other than from taxes.

Also, if the size of the DC, Sheriff Dept and 911 facility is going to be over 154,000 SF, then that's probably larger than the local Walmart and will be built on 3 or 4 floors. Think what that is going to do to downtown Carthage, the school, the churches, the library and to the community as a whole. The long term debt is going to be overwhelming. The people of Moore County have a right to know what is happening.

BAMAMA 2 years, 10 months ago

Under "Software Conflict Becomes an Issue"

Toda says ~ "I can order the same version for $999.00. Inflated dollars to support a conflict of public interest and trust."

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"No matter the insult or name calling, if you are going to dish them out, be man enough to take them."

Or to be willing to say them to someone's face.

I don't know how many times I need to explain this. Some insults cross the line. And when that line is crossed I'm going to call out the person responsible on it.

Anyone who has a problem with that is just going to have to deal with it.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

BAMAMA ~ My quote was: "Your math is as unpredictable as Neil Godfrey's line chart. Where did those numbers come from ~ Larry Caddell? What kind of software costs $350,000. V-Ray that was used to produce the movie AVATAR didn't cost that much http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/index....

I can order the same version for $999.00. Inflated dollars to support a conflict of public interest and trust."

July 4, 2010 at 3:28 p.m. I was referencing the V-Ray/Choas Software that was used to produce the movie AVATAR @ $999.00. The $350,000. for Southern Software were inflated numbers or they are really proud of their product. I think you must have copied and pasted only part of my quote leaving the Avatar reference off.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty ~ that includes about everyone who has posted on these boards. Are you always looking for a fight with someone. Why is a member of the Moore County Bar Association posting on discussion boards anyway? Would seem to me you would have a lot more to do as an attorney than trying to insult people and pick arguements?

SoBelle 2 years, 10 months ago

Well I think because of all the name calling and insults, posters who want to discuss topics presented on blogs, should stop posting altogether until pilot staff decides to delete anyones post not on topic. That's what their policy says regarding reader comments. I suggest everyone stop posting except the distractors and let's see how long it takes Mr. Hunter to put a stop to it.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Back on Subject Matter: The software is not the issue. The quality or the price of the software is not the issue. The issue is if it is ethical what they are doing. Forget pricing out software.

Is it ethical as Patrick says to expose our children to inherent dangers this DC will bring. Why do Caddell, Melton, and Picerno not care?

Some want to know where we all were after the initial public hearing. Well, we were told a "possible expansion". There is a long distance between that and where we are now at 154,000 sq. ft..

BFlat- they cannot admit to the public it is going to be a large scale prison that is why they cannot explain how they are going to pay for it. They think we "all fell off the turnip truck". They will have to explain themselves to the financial people they are borrowing from. No one lends money unless you know how it will be paid back. They just don't respect you enough to speak the truth.If they hide the fact it is is a huge Federal prison this will be easier to slide by the residents of Carthage and the taxpayers of Moore County.Just change the name later.

JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago

For reference, On the county website where you can search for the minutes of past board meetings there is a public hearing notice dated Aug 20, 2007 BOC Volume 92 pg 889 where the public meeting for the purchase of the Grimm property which was purchased to place the jail on with the consensus of all members of the board is called. In the same volume pg 909 there is a copy or list of the speaker who addressed the board on this issue and that speaker was Elton Turner and his objections were in regards to the price not the location. Also in this volume on pg 899 Commissioner Morgan made the motion to finance with bank financing of the purchase of the Grimm property. Bert Patrick and company was AWAL and were not there. So again Bert Patrick and company have had three years from the approval of the zoning from the Carthage town council to the county and the approval of the purchase of the property for the express of capital projects including the detention center. Thanks again to Lee Mcgraw for his courage and his honesty and thanks again to our sheriff, Nick Picerno, Larry Caddell, Neil Godfrey, Sheriff's department and others who are trying to do what's right.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Joe What are you saying here? More nonsense. The public hearing you are referring to was on the sale of the Grimm property.All commissioners voted on it except Lea. County Commissioners by law can pay what they want and are not held accountable by the taxpayer. So, that is just what they did.

The rezoning hearing was another matter. The property was not posted and no letters were sent to adjoining property owners.There was a tiny public hearing notice in the paper. I missed it along with most of the residents of Carthage. It stated that it was rezoning for government offices and a possible expansion of a jail. That does not sound alarming does it? Now we have a Detention Center two football fields long planned.

So the lesson for the rest of my life will be to read every public hearing notice in the paper so a Federal prison will not be built near my home? Hardly fair to take a 100k to 200k loss on your home because you missed a tiny ad in the paper.Are you going to tell me now "You win some. You lose some" like you did the poor retiree that complained she did not get to vote on it. You with your great sensitivity probably are.

You asked where we all were. Well, one no one knew about it. Next we heard there was going to be a prison with so many beds. We all went to a meeting immediately and yes then we were alarmed. The sad part through this whole shabby deal is the only chance I would have had was that very first rezoning hearing. But then again all these boards are in Caddells pocket. I guess I would never have had a chance at all.

ASU88 2 years, 10 months ago

@ Lee McGraw, Thanks for your post shedding some light on those with blinders on. @plumblevel, The Stop the Detention gang did not place a single person on the Town Board of Carthage nor did their candidate win the Mayor's seat during the last election. I know for a fact they worked hard to defeat Artie Barber, Lisa Caddell as well as Tom Stewart. If the ,"gang" would have put half of their efforts in building their case/platform instead of working to defeat Barber, Stewart, Caddell maybe the outcome would have been different? NOT! Barber stated on his campaign business cards, "Together we will build our future." A great motto for a hometown fellow working to gain the trust of the citizens of Carthage in making the future of Carthage better than it's past! Securing the future as he remembers the past is a trait of Barber's that will serve him well in the future! Stewart stayed low key as he ran against his next door neighbor and soundly defeated her..."the silent majority" has spoken! Caddell seperated herself from the opinions of that of her husband and ran a clean campaign based on postive ideas for the future of Carthage and not just ONE SINGLE ISSUE! Carthage is poised to grow both as a govermental center and a postive business haven. Carthage Fabrics Facility recent renovations will serve as a starting point for great things to come for the oldest town in Moore County. Speaking of Moore County,NC...our county along with Ireddal County,NC are adjacent to more counties than any other counties in the entire United States. Just thought I would throw that fact out there since the Stop the Detention gang likes to throw thoughts out of left field at least you have learn a FACT tonight and not a blind fiction thought! "To the Victors go the spoils!" Let's break ground on the new detention center as soon as possible that way the members of the gang can take up their toys and not play with the majority of the citizens of Carthage! Maybe they can move to Pinehurst and solve the traffic circle,fire hydrant placement, chapel/church expanision as well as the golf cart decal situation. Maybe they can also take their damn ugly protest signs with them...oh I forgot Pinehurst will not allow protest signs to remain up without a permit...lol! ;) Preach on Brother Lee!

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

I hope the irony of someone who posts on these threads from morning till night asking if I have something better to do is not lost on the readership.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

@BFLat Yes they have not explained how they are going to pay for it

@ASU88 This appears so written by Picerno. Your blog on the Pilot's Opinion page reads like you. You write there of the future joy of killing escaped detainees. There you write like the guy from Maryland who went all over shooting people with a young boy.Police should take note of your blog.

No one wants to hear of Carthage Town politics. The election was last year. And did Artie Barber not sign the Stop the Detention Center petition? I think someone has a copy.

Picerno keeps doing this in his blogging to divert the attention away from himself and the title story on the front page of the Pilot called "Conflict of Interest". Back to the subject matter at hand "Conflict of Interest".

GodSaves 2 years, 10 months ago

"To the Victors go the spoils!" Let's break ground on the new detention center as soon as possible that way the members of the gang can take up their toys and not play with the majority of the citizens of Carthage!

How about........Let's take a vote and see exactly who the majority is and while we are there we can also vote on the cost. Seems fair enough to end all of the nastiness from everyone.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

".Let's take a vote and see exactly who the majority is and while we are there we can also vote on the cost."

We did that. It was called an election.

" Seems fair enough to end all of the nastiness from everyone."

Yeah, right. Like that'll happen.

SoPinesNo1 2 years, 10 months ago

Hello all, sorry I'm late for the fight. This is not about a conflict of interest because there isn't one. It's all about NOT IN MY BACK YARD! Everyone on here knows that a Jail is needed, they just don't want it beside them, or across from their property. It takes taxes to pay for the services that are provided by the County. Some of the services aren't used by you, so you don't feel the need to pay for them. If you don't like the Republican faction that is currently in charge, vote them out. Maybe you can even vote a Democrat in, and watch your tax debt grow then. Just like Buford, I've got my 2X4 in my picture, whose head needs bashing next?

JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago

Look the town of Carthage voted 5-0 in favor of the rezoning, All of the commissioner's liked the Grimm Property except for Tim Lea and his objection was over money not location, Tim Lea wanted to build a bigger facility than the one that is planned and build it down the property closer to Dowd Street and Sunset Drive. Commissioners Morgan and Lea voted with Colin McKenzie to accept Larry Caddell's voluntary recusal when the software donation was considered by the board, and Commissioner Lea made the motion to accept the donation of the software from Southern Software. If Tim Lea and Cindy Morgan thought there were "ethical" issues then they failed to do due dilligence and bring it up then. The opponents of the jail have every right under the constitution to say, do, anything lawfully allowed to protest their "perceived" grievance, but it is not "ethical" for anyone to lie about Southern Software and Larry Caddell and Nick Picerno. There in possession of the county attorney to show to anyone who is interested is a document that was signed by Larry Caddell and was accepted by the board of the commissioners that would make showing or testing software in the detention center a misdemeanor for which Mr. Caddell would be arrested and prosecuted. The document was signed by Larry Caddell. So once again, you, the opponents of the jail can lie all you want but the facts are in the minutes and records available to you online at the county website and you ought to be ashamed if you don't go there and look for yourself instead of spreading lies. Lee Mcgraw signed the petition against the jail, yet he is honorable because he chooses to seek and tell truth rather than spread lies. Thank you Mr. McGraw.

JohnChappell 2 years, 10 months ago

One fact that seems to be ignored in much of the jail discussion is that the actual size of the proposed building is nowhere near the five or six hundred bed so-called “prison” opponents decry.

The Pilot has reported, over and over, its actual size: an increase of a couple hundred beds.

All the architect really did was produce a design allowing for expansion as needed — a responsible thing for architects to do, seems to me. Any actual expansion would go before a fresh county commission some years in the future, if at all. By then the human race might have come up with better treatment for drug addiction than locking people up.

Let me quote Clarence Darrow here:

“There should be no jails. They do not accomplish what they pretend to accomplish. If you would wipe them out, there would be no more criminals than now. They terrorize nobody. They are a blot upon civilization, and a jail is an evidence of the lack of charity of the people on the outside who make the jails and fill them with the victims of their greed.”

Well, that was said long ago, and we aren’t that civilized yet. In the meantime, if we must have a jail, I’d like more Carthagenians to propose their own ideas for its appearance.

Maybe someone has a good thought or too that could (at little or no increased cost, perhaps some savings) make our downtown county seat look even better than the good-looking design already on the table.

And in these discussions, if you go after somebody, sign your own name.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"And in these discussions, if you go after somebody, sign your own name."

That's not going to happen either. I've been on the Internet for 15+ years now, in a variety of forums, and if there's one thing I've learned it's this: if you want civil discourse, don't allow anonymous commenting.

I understand the reason for allowing it, but the trade-off you make is that some cowards will feel emboldened, not to speak out frankly, but to toss out slander and insults that would normally earn them a punch in the mouth if they had to take responsibility for them.

The other alternative, of course, is to actually enforce the TOS consistently, rather than intermittently or only when someone becomes so intolerable that something has to be done. But in the last 15 years I've seen exactly one forum do that (outside of professional ones): the mystery fiction listserv DorothyL.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

"The board's position was to be as transparent as possible". To be objective here we should take a look at transparency. Piceno, Caddell, and Melton stonewalled the people of Pinehurst on water system improvements. Great thought and practice until the Village Council decided to engage in negotiations with Wagram to purchase water utilities giving Pinehurst autonomy over their water infrastructure and water management. Now that the CBC sees that Pinehurst can operate just fine without county involvement, CBC is stepping up to the plate and offering to improve outdated water lines and add another tank. Correct so far?

Now that the CBC is squarming to make things right with the largest voting block in Moore County, according to numbers provided by the County as of 6-10-2010, the county has inked in "RED" pending funds from bonds. 1. Seven Lakes Water Debt: $62,816.07 OK. 2. Pinehurst Water Debt : $1,464,169.85 OK. 3. Pinehurst Water Tower: : $472,966.25 OK

Now we come to the statement of total transparency as cited from a previous Pilot Editorial Statements:

"We wanted to be more open. All five commissioners agreed to it. Then they ramrod this through (in one vote). Something is wrong with the process. It is not about the dollar amount. It is taxpayer money that is being spent. I know people want to make this a personal issue. It is about ethics and whether we are adhering to it as the people who pay the bills expect us to." Caddell, Picerno and Jimmy Melton voted to approve the budget as one action."We wanted to be more open.(;-)

So should one ask themselves why the change in openness? Why not slip the water issues that has been belabored for years by this board into a nice convenient package so taxpayers who have no interest in water for Pinehurst or Seven Lakes or knowing they would have to pay for this expense. County residents who are on septic tanks and well water paid for to have their own infrastructure when the built their homes at their own expense.

The argument that the Power-of-Three said at the last meeting: "users will pay for the water debt" through utility bills. OK. So why not have a bond referendum just for Seven Lakes and Pinehurst to address their water needs? The revenue from user fees would go directly to pay the bond indebtedness. Perhaps there may be a learning curve about comingling of funds. Why is so difficult to do when being tranparent, do what you say and say what you mean? Rather than trying to confuse the issues? But they have been doing that for years ~ hoodwinking taxpayers. We’ll all pay in the end!

In the famous words of Huburt "Chub" Seawell - call your next case.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Good Morning Dusty ~ how's your day starting?

GodSaves 2 years, 10 months ago

@ Dusty I understand that we voted at election time..... this has been said many times before.....what I'm saying is vote again. Put this to rest so we may move forward. Have our Commissioners take charge and stop the uproar that is going on and do something more than just defending themselves. I hate to see anyone have to do that. Make it a historical moment.....do something outside of the norm for the greater good of the community. Vote again. What ever wins....wins. Then the people will know that truly the people have spoken. This has been nothing but a "pissing" match. It saddens me for our beautiful community that there are so many people that as a result of this now can't stand eachother.

I'm sure what I have said will be shot down for whatever reasons and that's fine but it would be nice to see someone take charge and come up with a solution so we can get back to loving our neighbors. Divided we are falling. God help us.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda: fine, thanks. You?

I couoldn't help but notice that you failed utterly to address Chappell's point about the actual size of the jail.

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda says... BAMAMA ~ My quote was: "Your math is as unpredictable as Neil Godfrey's line chart. Where did those numbers come from ~ Larry Caddell? What kind of software costs $350,000. V-Ray that was used to produce the movie AVATAR didn't cost that much http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/index....

I can order the same version for $999.00. Inflated dollars to support a conflict of public interest and trust." ....I preceived this comment the same way you did, BAMAMA. After all, the topic was Southern Software's product and the statement was in a paragraph with no mention to AVATAR.

JohnChappell says... "One fact that seems to be ignored in much of the jail discussion is that the actual size of the proposed building is nowhere near the five or six hundred bed so-called “prison” opponents decry." ....I have posted these facts in a previous blog. I was confused by what was being said in these comments and investigated on my own. But, the opponents want to "smoke screen" the actual facts to confuse others.

BAMAMA SAYS.... "I did not take someone's words as truth, I investigated on my own. Might I suggest you do the same? It is time consuming, but the information you obtain is worth the time." ....I am doing just that. Yes, it is time comsuming, but very enlightening. I have changed my point of view on several issues. I, for one, want to apologize to Mr. Caddell for asking for his resignation and thank him for his service to Moore County.

JoeGarrison says... "For reference, On the county website where you can search for the minutes of past board meetings there is a public hearing notice dated Aug 20, 2007 BOC Volume 92 pg 889 where the public meeting for the purchase of the Grimm property which was purchased to place the jail on with the consensus of all members of the board is called. ....Thank you for this information. I will read it. There has been different answers on here as to who voted on what. More investigation for me! I am from New Jersey, not from Missouri. But, I am "show me, don't tell me." By the way, thank you for your informative and, may I say very polite, comments. I have investigated some of them and found them to be factual.

Woody 2 years, 10 months ago

This is not a "blog" and people who comment on newspaper articles are not "bloggers". I'm just saying....

JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago

@clbvpm Your welcome, all the minutes and facts are on the website of county of moore. Look no one wants to build a facility to house people of ill repute. But we have two options we can either build it now at a fairly reduced cost because of reduced interest rates and lower construction costs. The facility will figure in future growth estimates and should last us a very long time, or we can let the state come in and tell us what we have to do on their terms. The 1995 expansion was a band aid not a solution. Again people can protest and be angry, thats why we live in America to have the freedom to dissent. There is a big difference in looking at the facts and coming to diffferent conclusions and agreeing to disagree, rather than smearing good people and companies. Again don't take my word go to the County of Moore website and research it.

JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago

@toda your wrong on the water bond for pinehurst. The county is repairing or issuing the bonds that will paid for out of the county utility fund which is the fund that the utility fees are paid into. Only user fee dollars will go to fix the Pinehurst system which is a county entity. County users paying for county improvements. Thats not wrong or controversial it makes sense. The average person who isn't on county water will not pay for the improvements. Pinehurst is the biggest user of county water in the system, which would explain the need for a fix. Again much ado over nothing.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Just finished vaccuming the pool. Too hot to swim until dark thirty.

John Chappell is correct in what was being proposed as far as the bonding company is concerned with plans to support future expansion. The one point that sticks out in my mind has been addressed on other blogs and threads. (ie)

The sizes of the cells are @ 85 sq ft which falls under Federal Prison Guidelines where the Department of Human Resources on requires 75 sq ft. The 85 allows for double bunking as opposed to 75 DHR for single occupancy - as I understood the presentation. Now the one question that lingers is the use of the facility for federal prisoners or out of the county satellite bed space. And with ambiguous statements coming from CBC, taxpayers are aversive to anything coming from the old courthouse. Then add accusations of ethical concerns, the train has a problem staying on track.

Here is my though: look at other possibilities - they have paid staffs who are supposed to have experience in building trades. Open it up to public discussion since so many issues have come to light recently; the fact that all of this has been going on for 4 or 5 years, doesn’t preclude the fact that now issues and concerns have surfaced that should be addressed - now rather than later.

No question that a lot of taxpayer money, time, and consultations have been in the process to bring this project to fruition; wouldn't it stand to reason that the controversy not be carried into the November elections, go to the people and layout the entire case ~ don't you do that in court? If not I wouldn't hire you!

Bring some real numbers that support data being presented. I hate to keep beating Neil Godfrey to death on his presentation, but I personally feel that taxpayers have been hoodwinked. I don't know if you took statistics in college, if you did you know exactly my point of contention. If I had all of the reliable information that hasn't been skewed, I would provide the mathematical model in a histogram or bar graph. You remember the saying about computers: garbage in and garbage out. Same applies to statistics. My math professor used a graph from the Moore County School system. We analyzed it in class for reliability; it was a joke and is still used as what not to do in modeling statistical data.

Opponents’ questions are not going away any time soon. Why not take time to provide an explanation that people can live with or accept? If not, this may turn out to be a really distasteful fall with boards brimming with complaints, accusations, a lot of feelings hurt, and good honest people drug through the mud. We are all Moore County Citizens with one common good to make our county one of the best in the region or state. But once one has a cancer growing, sometimes the body can’t survive in a solemn state of well being. In the words of my late friend: Hubert “Chub” Seawell – call your next case.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Joe perhaps you need to take a look at the County Excel Spreadsheet for debt service before you make a statement like that! I have it in front of me as I type.

To be so young - aren't you about 22 - you are very opinionated. You graduated from Sandhills Business Program last year? You must make your parents proud.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

clbvpm ~ "V-Ray that was used to produce the movie AVATAR didn't cost that much http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/index...." you copied and pasted and still couldn't read what you had pasted? OK....

None 2 years, 10 months ago

BTW clbvpm and Mr. McGraw ~ any idea what your property in Carthage will appraise when the jail expansion is completed? Just wondering?

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

JoeGarrison says... "But we have two options we can either build it now at a fairly reduced cost because of reduced interest rates and lower construction costs." ....Thank you for jogging my memory. During my investigations I found that opponents to the new Cabarrus Detention Center held up the construction costing the tax payers close to $10 million dollars. Construction costs and interest rates are at an all time low. The bond isssue has been voted on and passed. I Do Not agree with the cost, but it is done. Let's break ground and hope to complete the project while we can save the taxpayers more money.

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

July 8, 2010 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Toda says... "BTW clbvpm and Mr. McGraw ~ any idea what your property in Carthage will appraise when the jail expansion is completed? Just wondering?" ....I imagine the same as it does now with a detention center in the middle of town, plus the appropriate appreciation rate of course.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

clbvpm There will not be an appreciation in Carthage property values.The dead opposite. Family will not want to live here and place their children in an elementary school nearby. The Public Library, church, and even the Juvenile Services are adjacent to the current jail. Just wait until the bail bondsmen descend on the town which does not have an appearance committee and allows giant signs. They have already started coming.Call any realtor in Moore County if you are doing so much research or go look at Joliet Illinois. Don't think their property values increased.

Why are you so gullible to believe that they will not build one pod after another. They must make this pay. I do not care what plans they showed you at the planning office. Did you see the ones right underneath the stack for Phase II, then Phase III. Do not write of just Phase I. This Detention must grow as big as possible as soon as possible to pay for itself. It is the only way. If you want to know the truth ask for a copy of what they plan to present to the N.C. State Treasurer to prove that they can indeed make this pay for itself.They will have to tell the truth there.

If you wish to pat Joe Garrison on the back then look up August 2007 notes from the County Commissioners meetings where Tim Lea complained that Caddell had placed his software in the Sheriffs Department without contract and was paid retroactive.I am sure Joe can track that one down for you.Just becuase your son works in the prison system in Morganton do not let that blindside you into thinking this is a good idea. His prison is not in the middle of an historic town.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Joe "smearing good people and companies" No one is smearing Southern Software as a company. The company and their products have nothing to do with it. The question is if it is ethical. The question revolves around Caddell and your father in law Picernos conflict of interest. Should they not recuse themselves from voting. If they did recuse themselves as I feel they should have done we would not have a 3-2 vote but a public referendum. Then let us see how the citizens of Moore County feel about it. Let public opinion decide.We are very close to the November election. Why the rush?

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

plumblevel says... "Just becuase your son works in the prison system in Morganton do not let that blindside you into thinking this is a good idea. His prison is not in the middle of an historic town." ....Nor will there be prison in Carthage. There will be a detention center in a complex that also houses the sheriff department and the county's emergency services.

Toda says... "BTW clbvpm and Mr. McGraw ~ any idea what your property in Carthage will appraise when the jail expansion is completed? Just wondering?" ....Sir, you presume by your use of the word "your" that I live in Carthage. I do not. I reside near Pinebluff. I do however own property in districts II, III, IV and of course V. However, if plumplevel's prediction the Carthage property values will deppreciate if the complex is built there, I may sell all the other properties and purchase a historic house in district I. Maybe, one of the bed and breakfast establishments. I then will bring my 6 grandchildren for a visit - Cassandra, Lynette, Bryant, Valerie, Patrick and Madison and take them to play on the ballfield. Their initials constitute my username.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

cblvpm

This so called 'Detention Center' can house 600 up to 840. Let us put it in your front or backyard. Have you Map Quested the mound at the ballfield yet to see how close it is to the exit from this facility?

I am so disappointed in you. I used to think you were so fair trying to find out your own facts. I am so disappointed in you.Maybe they just showed you plans and not property layout.If you are sincere that you truly do not care that your grandchildren come in contact with criminals then I do indeed feel sorry for them.

JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago

@plumblevel you just destroyed your own argument. If the issue is not Southern Software and about financing then why should they recuse themselves if the issue that you think merits the recusion is not relevant? Gotcha:)

JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago

@Toda my parents did a wonderful job raising me regardless of my opinions or actions. I can only hope and pray that I follow the example of following the truth and doing right then and only then could I make them proud. I guess everyone is opinionated about something. I've looked at the facts and evidence around the jail through the minutes and presentations and am satisfied that the jail is ethical and needed. You have come to different conclusions. You are much older and you are very opinionated. Again age isn't an issue with me, I won't ever dismiss opinions based on age, only those individual's opinions who are based not on facts but rather their own ideas without evidence to shape them. I'm sure reagardless of our opinions or differences that you made your family proud.

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

plumblevel ~ Have you been reading my comments? What I have said is I do not care where the detention center is built. If the commissioners want to pay me $1 million for property, I have 7 areas they can chose from and I will clear the woods. I also said I did not approve of the costs. But it appears to be a done deal so let's break ground while the costs of building and interest rates are low in an attempt to save the tax payers more money! The children will be safe. After all the sheriff's department will be right there and so will the Carthage police.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Joe The issue is not the quality of the software or the company. The issue is that Caddell and Picerno sit on the MC Board of Commissioners and refuse to recuse themselves from voting on issues that will financially benefit their company. Yes, they fly under the radar with the amount allowed by the current law since there is no town over 15,000 in Moore County. But, is it ethical to vote on issues that will benefit your company in the future?

If your business card says Southern Software then you should recuse yourself from voting on the Southern Software budget or if you are on the SCC board you should recuse yourself from voting on their budget. They should have separated the budget items out and recused themselves from voting on the items where they have a conflict of interest.They refused to do so. So, there lies the conflict of interest in my opinion.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

clbvpm ~ How cleaver. I never thought of that! Pinebluff. So we're neighbors by way of Sand Pit Road. Would you want to sign one of my petitions?

difflook 2 years, 10 months ago

Commissioner McGraw, you are to be commended for your comments and stance. To the last poster, if you would look at the Sandhills Community College minutes you will see that Commissioner Caddell ABSTAINED from voting on the Moore County Budget request. I agree with Mr. McGraw , state the FACTS, not untruths. We all have to live here together, do and say things to be an encourager, a bridge builder, a facilatator! Thank you Southern Software Owners/ employees for DONATING this software to your HOME COUNTY< I am thankful to you!

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

clbvpm I hope the children will be safe. It is not a done deal. They have a long road to still go. The land has lots of problems and they have to go through DENR. Carthage also has an Historic District close by that will be considered. They will also have to prove they can make it pay for itself with the Department of the Treasurer. I am hoping for a fatal outcome for both.

I have read your blogs and did appreciate your insight. I was Southernfried and I am now Plumblevel. Southernfried was taken down on Sunday when a big truck with Technological Services sign pulled up close to my house and parked on my grass. Next my computer started jumping. I mean roaring. Then the Google bar ate words backwards and I could no longer get on the Pilots comment box.Coincidence?

I registered my new username under my husbands e-mail address and the new user name is Plumblevel.I just meant I have read how you come at this on your own and I think that is great. We do agree about one thing and that is the cost!

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

difflook I was there. Mr.Caddell voted on the entire County Budget in a lump sum which included Southern Software and the SCC budget. Mr. Lea tried to get them to separate it and said the public had the right to hear it.They had the chance to separate the budget and recuse themselves on the parts where they had conflict of interest. They did not take this opportunity. It should be in the County Commissioner notes online.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Let's take another look at Southern Software’s relationship with Moore County in a different light. I've done some Beta Testing for software applications on various platforms. It can be a positive source of income and some enjoyment working out programming errors called bugs. Let's say for instance that Southern Software was providing Beta applications for testing by Moore County Law Enforcement and Detention Center employees ~ to work out the bugs so to speak or to identify a crash or provide feedback on performance.

Southern Software sales hardware and provides Beta Software at just development costs; they broker entire packages for testing. Now Moore County is the test bed for all the new software. It’s as if Moore County is on the bleeding edge of evaluation and with that comes possible "programming bugs" that could possibly corrupt an application with erroneous results. Just like when one is at home on their PC and it starts behaving in an unstable manner. But since Law Enforcement data systems aren't home computers catastrophic results are not a remote possibility with Beta Testing.

Financially, revenues for Beta Testing are stagnant until applications are tested and until source code behaviors are proven reliable, that's the $25,000.00 stipen to cover an employees salary while software is being developed. So there is an unspoken part of the relationship that is being nurtured and would be VERY costly if lost. Could SS, Inc be using Moore County Law Enforcement and Detention Center employees for software testing prior to marketing applications to other users? Hopefully no prisoners will be released from “buggy” software in the future while being software is being tested. The cost could be more than taxpayers would be willing to pay. Free software comes with some strings just like free downloads for your home PC.

SANDHILLSK9 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda: I work with a K9 software company and run his beta since 2000 as tester and work on bugs - we found even a way and hardware to include GPS system and Google Earth for tracking/mapping records. I tried to give this program to the SO almost for free, guess what "no thanks" was the answer! Talking to Guys from SS Inc.( Sales Rep. Goodnight ) they can't develop a module for the Sheriffs or Police Pack old or new version! K9 handlers have to write a double report for court purpose! And here is my point: Our Program would cost the SO $ 50.00 for 1 year for ea. K9 handler and free Updates - used by the SO is Kats4 what cost $365.00 ea. Handler plus Updates. Get the Point? I had the chance to play with SS Inc. Police Pack and it is nice when its works - what is not happen on regular basis!

LeeMcGraw 2 years, 10 months ago

Dave, (oldspook), You ask reasonable and intellegent questions. I don't know if S.S. will increase their numbers from the ranks of our county. I would just cal them and ask to get the best answer. I do know for sure that they have hired a lot of Sandhill's Community College grads and kept them here in Moore County. That's a good thing. There are so many people who blog and I think it really is a neat thing. I mean that. I can understand die-hard opponents being mad at me because I used reason, and with that reason, say the jail is needed, and belongs with close proximity to the courts. My original Column was pointed at telling the truth. Asking good questions and formulating an opinion based on broad minded research is much better for our community than hot-head drama. Abraham Lincoln used to get others mad at him because he would listen, and ask direct questions, rather than chime in with opinion. Once, someone said to him(paraphrased) "Mr. Lncoln, How can you remain silent on this very important topic?", to which he said, "My dear fellow, on a topic a man knows little about,it is better to keep his mouth shut and let people perceive him as a fool, than to open it and prove it!"

OldSpook 2 years, 10 months ago

Thanks Lee that was an answer I was hoping for. While I am not real happy with the way a $50 million dollar discussion was made, I believe there may be a very tangible benefit to Carthage and the local populace as a whole. As S.S. has an established track record of hiring Sandhills Community College graduates, it is logical to presume they will hire more in the future. These employees’s will require specialized classes and/or training that the college could/would provide. This keeps the dollars in the county and local employee's locals. Also, as the DC may be the S.S. default showroom, the potential for employment growth in the computer field is outstanding. This also gives S.S. and the town of Carthage a more vested interest in maintaining the outward appearance of their Showroom/Detention Center.

I'm really beginning to have mixed feelings about this whole Detention Center. No, I do not really want it this close to my house (@9 miles). I don't want ex-convicts around our children. Nor do I want ex-convicts hovering around or getting between me and the Pik-N-Pig. However, and without trying to sound like a spin doctor, could this growth project decrease the 10+% unemployment rate? Could this project provide employment futures for our younger people and let them stay in Moore county? Could this project help the Community College grow? What about all of the support services that would have to be created to support the Detention Center? Could this project provide Federal Funds for infrastructure? Yea I know more questions than answers but as we appear to have an 800 pound gorilla in the room could we explore the possibility of positive ramifications?

Dave

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda So what you are saying is that Caddells and Picernos motives for building this Detention Center is that the Detention Center will not only serve them as a 'Showroom' but also as a 'Testing Site' to develop product? OMG. I missed that one. I guess the real value in having such a large Detention Center is to work all the bugs out so you can expand across the U.S.more than showing clients around the showroom. So glad as a taxpayer I am able to support such a self interest project.Moore County taxpayers have been duped more than they can imagine.

Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago

How is anyone resorting to unfair tactics as purported in the headline article? I think it fair to be able to ask questions and try to get to all the facts. Somehow, all the anti DC people have been categorized as unfair. Things are now coming out that were not known 4 years ago. The people of Moore County are beginning to wake up to smell the coffee, and once they look at their tax bill in the future, they will wider awake. Not only that, consider that the US is getting ready to do a big tax hike, too. Better prepare to hold on for dear life as to what is yet to come. Everyone can talk all this DC stuff day and night but the problems with it are not going to go away, nor the big bill that all of us will pay.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Old Spook I guess the question here is how much will you have to pay in property taxes because of your next tax reevaluation? If you own an expensive property are you willing to pay a tax increase so that a few more employees be hired up in Carthage? Just asking. I think this should have been answered in a public referendum.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Bflat This 50 million dollar limited obligation bond only covers the Public Safety Complex. We need to spend on the Court House too and whatever is left over for the Government Complex.We all need to hang on to what we have. I have heard predictions that the economy might not turn around for 4 to 5 years to come. So reckless government big spending by three former Democrats Melton, Caddell, and Picerno is not appropriate in this economy.

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

plumblevel says....

"This so called 'Detention Center' can house 600 up to 840. Let us put it in your front or backyard. Have you Map Quested the mound at the ballfield yet to see how close it is to the exit from this facility?" ....No, I have not map quested the distance. But, during my investigations, seven friends and I walked the distance. It was a nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon. Lots of things to discuss. You should try it. That is how I know you can see ythe jail from the ball field steps.

"I am so disappointed in you. I used to think you were so fair trying to find out your own facts. I am so disappointed in you. Maybe they just showed you plans and not property layout. If you are sincere that you truly do not care that your grandchildren come in contact with criminals then I do indeed feel sorry for them." ....My grandchildren would be safer in the proximity of the detention center than in their own yard. Law enforcement officers would always be in and out there. Case in point, Louisianna, Missouri -July 6th, four year old Alisa Maier kidnapped out of her front yard with parents just inside the front door. Have you investigated the sex offenders in your area? You can do this through the North Carolina website. They send me messages if any move within a 5 mile radius of my home (or move away). You'd be surprised at the number in Carthage. A few years ago, one was even a resident in one of the nursing facilities there. Criminals are everywhere. The harmless ones are the ones behind bars.

OldSpook 2 years, 10 months ago

plumblevel, 1) I guess the question here is how much will you have to pay in property taxes because of your next tax reevaluation? This is an unfortunate factor that I do agree with the vast majority of opinions about. A tax increase, even as little as 5 cents per 100 dollars would be a squeeze for some families on a tight budget. Perhaps some of this tax revenue could be regained by cutting entitlement programs? I don't have a good answer, I only know that governments cannot keep bleeding the working/middle class dry without inciting civil disobedience. As we must learn to live within our budgets, so must our representatives.

2) If you own an expensive property are you willing to pay a tax increase so that a few more employees be hired up in Carthage? Actually, I think I would be willing to pay a tax increase so that a few more local employees could be hired in Carthage. But please keep one thing in mind. I am an outsider who wants to retire and live in the area. Over the past 5 years I have met some of your sons and daughters either at the high schools, church or working in the stores during summer vacation. I like these young people. All but a very small number have been very respectful, kind and professional. The young adults I have dealt with are, as a group, people I am proud to be around. So yes, I would be willing to invest a few dollars into opportunities for the young adults in the area.

3) Just asking. I think this should have been answered in a public referendum. And again, I must agree.

Best regards, Dave

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

CLBVPM I am a woman. I do not like released detainees approaching my car to ask for a ride.I also would not like them coming face to face with my grandchildren. The ones coming up to my car for a ride are not behind bars and there is no policeman in sight.

OLDSPOOK I think a public referendum would have been the way to go here. All voices deserve to be heard from all economic backgrounds.Yes, there are those who can afford a tax increase and those who cannot. I just think a few jobs opportunities opening up by spending 50 million dollars on a huge jail we do not need is wrong. I would offer doubling the size of the current jail and spending the rest on education or pay down the current 8o million school bond debt. In any case, a public referendum and listening to the voice of the people would have been the way to go.

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

Dave~ Moore County should be delighted to have someone so nice as you retire in our area. Orginally from New Jersey, I moved to NC in 1969, after meeting my spouse while stationed at Fort Bragg. We lived in the Charlotte area while we attended the University of North Carolina at Charlotte; and, then to Moore County in 1993. We currently reside in the Pinebluff area. It is a very nice place to live. Please don't let these comments scare you. I pay considerably less in state taxes than my siblings in New Jersey and New York. while owning more property.

warbirdlover 2 years, 10 months ago

All this boils down to, is NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) Where would you have them put a new jail????? The main jail is usually in the seat of grovernment, Central in Raleigh, Meckenberg in Charlotte, ect. What about the cost & dangers of transporting a defendant to court, when the jail is not near the Courthouse???? Does the Southern Software programs work. If they do, don't fix it, if it isn't broke. If you go to a different software, what about the cost of teaching the people to use it, cost of licenses? Some people will step over a dollar to save a dime.

warbirdlover 2 years, 10 months ago

As far as property taxes, try living on Youngs Road where I do, where land that has to be fertilized to grow grass, is valued at 35,000.00 or more per acre. The land has been in my wifes family for decades. We don't own a Horse Farm, but love living in such a beautiful part of Moore County. Yearly we scrape enough money togeter to pay the taxes, just the price of living where we do.

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

I am a woman. I do not like released detainees approaching my car to ask for a ride.I also would not like them coming face to face with my grandchildren. The ones coming up to my car for a ride are not behind bars and there is no policeman in sight. .....Are they coming up to your car now? .....Yes, my investigations indicate you are a woman and possibly the past or current owner of a bed and breakfast establishment in the town of Carthage. If that is the case, I can understand your comments. But I still stand by my comments that the safest place is going to near the facility. Take any hour of the day and count the law nforcement cars who pass that site.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

clbvpm ~ "I pay considerably less in state taxes than my siblings in New Jersey and New York. while owning more property."

I have relatives who live in Kentucky and Pennsylvania who pay more in property taxes as well. If North Carolina would eliminate Point of Sale taxes on food, pharmaceuticals, soft drinks, pull behind trailer tags and county taxes, and the list of out of control taxation for everything we "think" we own and purchase including double taxation on some products, I would pay more in property taxes. According to the National Census statistics, North Carolina is ranked 20th in the nation for taxation across the board. So your comment lacks investigation.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sl_burden_ustotal&allstates-20080807.pdf BTW: you say that you own property basically all over Moore County and you’ve lived here since 1969? Unless you’re Jesse Gore’s wife, Daneen, your claims deserve more qualification because they own more property in Moore County than anyone who resides in this county – including you. And I'm sure with Jesse's real property investments, he wouldn't sell a square foot of land.

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda ~ Qualifications? Check out the propery taxes in these states for yourself. I did not say anything about any other taxes. As for my property ownings, I own four rental houses, my personal residence and a little acreage that I would gladly sell for $1 million to the county for a new detention center. Why does that need qualifying?

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Follow up to my post on [July 8, 2010 at 10:42 a.m.] My "investigation" has taken another day to provide readers with additional facts regarding the transparent vote based on a majority vote by all five commissioners for transparency. Only Tim Lea and Cindy Morgan followed through on their pledge.

OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND: Could be a reason Larry Caddell has defended his, Nick and Jimmie's vote to vote on all bond issues at once. Let’s see what ALL of the taxpayers in Moore County will pay for Pinehurst water and sewer systems: 1. 5.5 Million for sewer rehabilitation. OK 2. 1.2 Million for Slip-Lining Lake Pinehurst. OK 3. 1.227 Million for a Water Tower on Monticello. OK 4. 2.073 Million for Remote Radio Read Meters. OK

TOTAL: $10,000,000.00

So I wonder why Larry, Nick and Jimmie wouldn't want to let those residents who reside outside Pinehurst in the county, know that they will be paying for a Limited Obligation Bond for Pinehurst infrastructure. Sewage smells when taxpayers aren't allowed to vote on their debt. But then again, wasn't they elected to hoodwink the voters?

Taxpayers shouldn't complain about being neighborly and helping Pinehurst residents have better infrastructure. Let's all have our property re-evaluated to help manage public debt because the limited obligation bond wasn't separated between other county projects and water needs. Pinehurst may reconsider their negotiations with Wagram.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

clbvpm [July 9, 2010 at 1:43 p.m.] "I pay considerably less in state taxes than my siblings in New Jersey and New York. while owning more property."

[July 8, 2010 at 1:50 p.m].....Sir, you presume by your use of the word "your" that I live in Carthage. I do not. I reside near Pinebluff. I do however own property in districts II, III, IV and of course V.

Your threads not mine....ambiguity perhaps? [July 9, 2010 at 10:02 p.m.] "As for my property ownings, I own four rental houses, my personal residence and a little acreage"

Sounds like you need to do some "investigation" to get your facts straight on what you think you own! Would you happen to be in law enforcement by chance or delusional? Before posting don't pop that cork on another bottle....

None 2 years, 10 months ago

warbirdlover ~ "What about the cost & dangers of transporting a defendant to court, when the jail is not near the Courthouse???? "

State of NC transports inmates in buses across the state everyday! It's not dangerous with properly trained personel. Waist chains with handcuff's, and leg chains keep inmates within reach at all times...back door delivery.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

wardbirdlover- I know land on Youngs Road. My cousin has land there. She has to burn off, fertilize, and put up with with high property taxes. She really fears taxes going up. Your taxes will go up there along with my cousins if this Huge Detention Center is built. Picerno said it could be "court ordered" taxes if it does not pay for itself. The yearly interest on this project is 2.5 million. So, enjoy your fetilizer you might not be able to buy it soon and I know the soil needs it there. The Charlotte County City Jail and it is called "Jail" is not in a residential area. Not that I am a jail expert like clbvpm I just grew up there.

clbvpm- I cannot believe you would investigate someone on this blog. That is creepy. Just to set the record straight I do not own a bed and breakfast or have I owned one in the past.I am only clearing this up before you stalk the only poor woman in town that does. Why would you want to bust a bloggers identity? To prove how smart you are? I have done nothing to you. I'm outta here....too creepy for me.

toda-I got that breakdown too.I thought some of that money was for Public Utilities for the DC but it is not. Wouldn't it be nice if they offered breakdowns at the meetings.I think if the Commissioners (Caddell, Picerno, and Melton) worked with more transparency they would not have so many people upset.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

plumblevel ~ my post on July 8, 2010 at 10:42 a.m., I alluded to the fact that all five commissioners voted for transparency. Ironically Caddell, Picerno and Melton experienced a political memory lapse when it came time to vote on the Limited Liability Bonds. Then Larry was quoted as saying, well we've always done it that way. Nick's motion was carried, seconded by Caddell and carried with Melton's yea! My - My how quickly they forget from one meeting to the next!

Selective memory perhaps.

BTW: Have you heard what the outcome of the meeting Thursday 7-9 came out with the Village of Pinehurst? I wonder if county representatives threw their hats in before entering the conference room? Too many misconceptions, avoidence of the issues, and compiling debt without a bond to pay for promises. Transparency or hoodwinked?

clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago

plumblevel ~ Actually, no investigation involved. You posted your email address on here for toda. The name in the address rang a bell.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

clbvpm That was a fake e-mail address with the name Susan under a gmail account. I put it online but then forgot the password. I never could open it and then forgot about it. Not very computer savvy. I guess my question to Toda was not that important. I cannot even pull that address up anymore on gmail. My apologies. I now understand why you thought I was Susan who used to own the Buggy Inn.

OMG. I just realized her last name was Smith. I did not do it intentionally. I just thought there are so many Smiths it was a common name. She sold the Inn years ago and no longer lives here. Now I understand your connection in thinking you knew who I was. I apologize for my instant paranoia and anger. Please accept my sincerest apologies. Maybe when this is all over we could all get together for a party and come with our Usernames pinned on! I am sure eye to eye conversations are better than this.

I use a username because as with many women we have our husbands last name.Our last name is our business name. My husband does not share all of my opinions. It is not fair to drag my opinions which my husband does not always support into our business.Are you reading this Dusty? Once again, so sorry CLBVPM.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"Are you reading this Dusty?"

Sure am. And what's coming through loud and clear is that you want to be able to toss accusations and impugn people's integrity without consequences. And there would almost certainly BE consequences if you and the other commenters here took responsibility for their words. Which is why you freaked out when you thought someone might actually connect a real name with a screen name.

Part of the reason I fact check columns so closely and provide actual references to sources when I need to is that I know I might have to actually face someone in person and defend my position. I have, in fact, done so on many, many occasions in the past 10+ years. As I've pointed out, I'm easy to find.

That's fine. That's how the Internet works sometimes. You and the other mob members don't have to take off your hoods. It's a fine old tradition.

But your credibility needs to be assessed in light of the fact that you have you don't have to bother backing up your words or testing them for truth.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

"You and the other mob members don't have to take off your hoods. It's a fine old tradition."

So what did you mean by that statement? Are you referring to the KKK ~ they wore hoods! Are you saying that as one of the "mob members" who by way of the Constitution have a right to freedom of speech? You are a practicing attorney are you not?

"And what's coming through loud and clear is that you want to be able to toss accusations and impugn people's integrity without consequences."

I posted several links with County Debt service taken from a spreadsheet provided by the County. I have also quoted all five commissioners stating that there would be transparency until it came time to vote on a "done deal" with the Pinehurst Water issue, from meeting transcripts...No wonder the citizens were not given their right to vote on an important issue. They have already started the projects and should we vote against the bonds, they would have to account to the people who live outside Pinehurst for those subliminal decisions for going out on a limb so to speak. And lets face it Caddell and Picerno were Democrates until they wanted to carry the Pinehurst Republican vote ~ and then switched parties: Fence Railers.

If you would like the same information I have, just ask and send me an email link and I'll ship it right out to you...."you don't have to bother backing up your words or testing them for truth." Hollow words from a member of the Moore County Bar Association.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

And to call themselves "conservative republican's", they are spend more money than the Washington crowd! Aren't we all glad to know that they aren't Liberal Democrates? We're underwater now for $200,000,000.00 with interest! Conservative my butt....

JohnChappell 2 years, 10 months ago

In the interest of fair disclosure, my home is less than a mile down the road from the jail. It is closer than that to Pine Lake.

A few reminders: 192 more beds is all that will be added. The rest of the building will provide badly needed space for 911 offices, the sheriff, and so forth. For 10 more square feet per cell the jail would be economically expandable without so much as laying a brick -- a potential saving to tax payers if and when needed. Isn't that good?

No opinion expressed here, other than a lack of one: I'm no more worried about this new building than the one they are building at Pine Lake around the corner. Maybe I ought to be, but I'm not. I am especially not worried about the prison they are absolutely NOT building: the one with 600 to 1200 beds, all double-bunked. It is a chimera. Look it up.

They aren't planning to do that, but if they were it wouldn't worry me. The folks in a modern detention center will be safer, and so will we. It's the abusers and ex-cons that won't be locked up that worry me, not the ones in jail. Overcrowding will mean more of them on the loose, will it not?

I am much more concerned over the proliferation of veiled innuendo and unsupported implications of corruption that runs through these online discussions. Let us instead (as Ben Franklin advised the Constitutional Convention of 1787) "doubt a little of our own perfection" and, like good carpenters when a board won't fit, "take a little off both sides" in healthy compromise for the good of all.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

JohnChappell ~ interestingly enough, no where did you mention the cost to taxpayers who will foot the bills. Nor did you mention transparency or voters rights ~ O' but they are using the law for their decisions to circumvent the will of the people to the point that projects are not only on the board, but in progress. It's all about the politics, our money, and egos at the top.

"It's the abusers and ex-cons that won't be locked up that worry me, not the ones in jail. Overcrowding will mean more of them on the loose, will it not?" So are you inferring that when the jail is overcrowded there will be more on the loose? Don't they have night court in large Metropolitan Cities? When they are sentenced to serve time with the NCDOC, have the bus running and take them to prison - don't hold'em for the count....

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty

I did my homework. I also knew the Jessica Lumsford Law was a current N.C. law which you did not. I consulted with the UNC School of Government and a lawyer. In my opinion Caddell and Picerno have a conflict of interest and need to recuse themselves from voting on issues where they have a conflict of interest. Their blatant refusal to recuse themselves from voting is in my opinion against the State Ethics laws.

I have not maligned their business, employees, or products. I find it immoral that Caddell and Picerno vote on a huge detention center where they will be able to develop their software. If you feel I am maligning their character then that is your opinion and not law. They are politicians and they are fair game. So, get off your high horse.Maybe they deserve this criticism.

If you cannot respect my reason to use an alias then maybe my husband will visit you and tell you why he does not want his business name dragged into this. Regarding your opinions I would use an alias if I were you and not embarrass myself.

SoPinesNo1 2 years, 10 months ago

As my avatar indicates, I am "up front" and "above board".

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

You havne't "maligned" anybody, but in the next sentence you call them "immoral"? Then threaten to have your husband come "explain" to me?

Heh.

ISTR when Toda thought just this sort of statement was a threat...and where is he now? Is that crickets I hear chirping?

Gotta love that situational outrage, or, in other words, hypocrisy.

You think you've got a case, file it. You think your husband needs to "explain" things to me, send him by. But that would mean revealing who you really are, wouldn't it? And that terrifies you.

""you don't have to bother backing up your words or testing them for truth." Hollow words from a member of the Moore County Bar Association."

Yup. Just like the DA's.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

PS: Toda. aren't you one of the ones always up on your high horse about "insults' rather than facts? So isn't that line about "Hollow words from a member of the Moore County Bar Association" hypocritical?

I think it is, and I use my own name to say it.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

dustyrhoades ~ how well you craft your insults. I try my best to be amicable with you. And then just like a serpent you strike again. You know it's like most on these blogs have concluded: The Pilot is paying you to insult people and the Keystone Cops AKA CBC have retained your services to annoy people and get off the subject matter. You must be one bad a** to think you intimidate everyone who trys to have a decent exchange.

Didn't know I was on my high horse but if that's what you think - OK. Which part of Tommy Davis did you miss? Anything else?

Perhaps sticking to the topic at hand?

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"How well you craft your insults."

It's a gift.

"You know it's like most on these blogs have concluded: The Pilot is paying you to insult people and the Keystone Cops AKA CBC have retained your services to annoy people and get off the subject matter."

I wish. But...as per usual, "most on these blogs" are wrong. I'm working gratis on this one.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

@John Chappel

I have a good story for you. Carolina Journal (John Locke Foundation) July 2010 Vol.19 No. 7. "Yadkin County Jail Groundbreaking Delayed Until Issues Resolved".The story of a lawsuit challenging the location of a jail. It states the new Yadkin County Jail will cost 8.2 million for a 150 bed facility. How is Moore County spending 40 million for 192 beds? I know the 40 million dollars also includes a sheriffs department and 911 offices. How did we get such an expensive deal???

This article also stated that "prisons run by private contractors tend to be less expensive than prisons that are government operated." So, why is Moore County going into the business of prisons?

@Dusty

Aren't you exhausted twisting things around to be as snide and nasty as one can be. My husband happens to be the nicest guy in the world. He would only come to shake your hand. If you knew him he is only a gentleman and has never threated anyone in his life. He could explain to you why I use a username like so many others on this forum and he would do it as a gentleman. Quit taking subject matter off course.

Regarding the use of the word "immoral". Well, again that is my opinion. I think anyone who uses the taxpayers money to build a testing site for their own product and cheated that taxpayer out of their right to vote on such an issue is immoral. Sorry Dusty. Just my opinion.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty make that never "threaten"

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Chuck Taylor That is exactly what I said. I was only correcting my spelling.

Chappell "Take a little off both sides" Okay cut the 40 million cost in half to 20 million then cut it again to see if you can build a Detention Center like Yakdin for 8.2 million.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

You know, Toda, your pious tut-tutting over "insults" rings pretty hollow after your vigorous and unqualified support of SCCStudent, the commenter who's posted the most vile and un-called for insult yet seen on any of these threads.

I see that slur has now been scrubbed from the site, and so, apparently, has SCCstudent.

A shame, really, because people really should know what kind of person you choose to endorse. It might cause people to view the people you choose to attack in a new light.

LeeMcGraw 2 years, 10 months ago

STOP THE TENSION CENTER! That's the small group mis-leading folks. They cause Tension with lies and drama. IE...(4 story Monstrosity, 800 beds, perverts peering out at children, S.S. lies, Sewer pipes going to explode, a Prison, and on and on. That's partially why I am not on that side of the fence. Sorry Maude for not agreeing with you on this one I believe I am right in my decision that the detention center is needed, and needed now. It needs to be within walking distance, if not attached to the Courts. There are good people who don't want the Detention Center in Carthage who suffer from the association with the few who S t r e t c h the truth and are without reason. I respect your opinion. Let's focus on positive things.

Here's a challange. We have had the problem of people "asking to use phones" and "trying to get home" after being released from jail for many years. Direct your energy, if you will, towards offering a plan that will help. I'm serious. This will continue to be a problem. It will not go away unless reasonable people offer a solution. This is something needed now. Actually, it was needed years ago. Help make Carthage a better place. I love positive input and ideas that take shape. I have heard a couple of ideas recently that are about making the town beautiful and more prosperous! I have a notebook that ideas are kept in. Thank you for those. You can e-mail me at leemcgraw@embarqmail.com anytime with ideas, and post here as well.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"STOP THE TENSION CENTER!"

Heh. Good one.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Lee "Honest Abe"

First of all, I cannot believe you would have the nerve to quote Abe Lincoln. Aren't you the one who refused to take part in the debate for the Town Council election so you would not have to make a stand on where you stood with the Detention Center. You then schmoozed all the Stop the Detention Center Opponents.Bert Patrick even had your name added to her recommended call list for the election because she trusted you and probably gave you 170 votes.

I remember you driving into the driveway of a young family who protested by putting a stuffed prisoner costume in their front yard for Halloween. You got out of your truck (while your wife was cringing in the front seat) and told them that was really cool. You chatted and pretended you were on the Stop the Detention Center side to get their vote. The word 'Turncoat' comes to mind not anything to do with Abe Lincoln.

Did you not also trespass into someone's private yard without calling first and install two silver pipes at 5 feet high on a wall facing their house.Didn't you tear down their ivy to do it when you were legally only allowed a foot into their yard. After much arguing, did you not lower the pipes to 2-3 feet high, paint them, and refuse to bury them. Then later you installed an open window with clear glass and a fluorescent light to shine into the middle of their their private yard where they had spent 8k in landscaping. And Pinehurst complains about a little grass and fire hydrant problems!!!!

Now you have added insult to injury by putting a tattoo parlor next to their home. As if the Detention Center was not going to lower their property values enough. And the house you complained about that put refrigerators on their porch wasn't that your own father's house? You forgot to mention the apartment you rent out in the back of the buiding behind Dillon's house. Is the commercial Marion building zoned residential? And you have the nerve to quote Abraham Lincoln and accuse the jail opponents of lies.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

plumblevel: NOW who's "taking the subject matter off course" ?

Hint: it's you.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Lee Why don't you write about facts. Why is the new Detention Center with 150 beds in Yadkin only 8.2 million dollars? Why is your buddies DC so expensive?

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"Why don't you write about facts."

After the second nastiest personal attack posted here so far, you have the nerve to come up with this?

Amazing.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty

Second nastiest attack? Let us see how your wife reacts if all this was done to your yard.I think it is hypocritical that Lee McGraw writes at all on this subject of unfair tactics when he used most of them to get elected.

Why don't you answer the question, why is the Moore County Detention Center so expensive? Why don't you quit with your fictional writing and attacks. Every time a law is mentioned you do not comment.What is the matter you cannot find your law books. Talk about being too busy with personal attacks. I am done with you. You are a waste of time in any forum where there is subject matter.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty over the past few months your efforts to be a detractor are apparent. You chastise posters for expressing their thoughts and opinions; you are belligerent and attack just for the sake of getting people off the boards. You have contributed absolutely nothing as far as addressing issues. And SCCstudent hasn't gone anywhere...and I'll take up his fight. As an attorney, you earn a living from low lifes who commit crimes fighting for their rights to get off with a pat on the back and to commit another crime. More income for defense attorneys who have work they can do.

Do you actually have any clients? It's seems to me that you spend all of your time on the computer making sarcastic remarks. If your attitude is anything in court as it is on these boards, no wonder you have no one to represent...isn't Art Blue down the block from you, or Stephen Lapping? But then there is always a stipend income as a Pilot contributor!

SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago

Holà (/)

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Plumblevel ~ not too many can express ideas contrary to the CBC - blind helplessness.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

I'm sure there are people of good will with honest objections to the placement of the detention center or its cost.

But if you read the comments here, you'd have to assume that all of the detention center opponents are mean, petty, vindictive, dishonest (lying and continuing to lie about the actual size of the center), hypocritical (engaging in vicious personal attacks and insults while pretending to deplore the same; demanding that people "stay on the subject" while veering wildly all over the map for the same personal attacks); hysterical "comparing county commissioners to "tyrants of old" and the Mafia) and yes, cowardly (hiding behind aliases).

SCC, Toda, plumblevel: I've realized that you've done more to discredit the anti-detention center cause than I could do in a thousand posts. So do continue. You certainly don't need me any more to keep showing what you're really made of.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

John Hood's Daily Journal Solutions to County Jail Problems: May 07, 2010

"This week’s “Daily Journal” guest columnist is Dr. Michael Sanera, John Locke Foundation Director of Research and Local Government Studies."

"First, more counties should investigate potential cost savings from building and operating jails with neighboring counties. Currently three consolidated jails exist in North Carolina: the Burke/Catawba jail, the Bertie/Martin jail, and the Albemarle jail that serves Pasquotank, Perquimans, and Camden counties."

"Another cost-saving possibility is for a county to contract with neighboring counties to provide incarceration of their inmates. When the state health department closed its jail, Yadkin transported its inmates to jails in Forsyth, Davie, and Watauga counties and paid those counties $45 to $62 per day.

In other states, counties build jails larger than they need and then rent the extra beds to other counties and even the federal government. "

http://www.carolinajournal.com/jhdailyjournal/display_jhdailyjournal.html?id=6393

Just a few snipits from Dr. Michael Sanera's research on jails in North Carolina. Must to the dismay of proponients, there are alturnitives incorporating housing Federal Prisoners....

I have requested premission from Dr. 'Saner to republish his paper on "Solutions to County Jail Problems."

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Stamina ~ personal fortitude ~ persistence ~ perseverance ~ transparency ~ honesty in government...why not continue to spend like a democrat on a mission from God in our bountiful economy.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Toda Ask Rhoades what he thinks of the 8.2 million 150 bed Detention Center in Yadkin. That will shut him up. He runs when it comes to numbers and facts.Second thought, best to ignore him and not encourage any more stupidity. He intentionally brings these forums to such a low level that readers get tired of bickering and go away - that draws attention away from the conflict of interest issue with the Pilots Caddell and Picerno.Rhoades is effective that way.Join me in boycotting Rhoades. He is just not worth the time or does he have any opinions other than insults.

TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago

"Stamina ~ personal fortitude ~ persistence ~ perseverance ~ transparency ~ honesty in government...why not continue to spend like a democrat on a mission from God in our bountiful economy."

Toda, you've gone off on anther ramble. Are you drinking AGAIN? Isn't it a little early?

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty did you call your wife Needle?

None 2 years, 10 months ago

TheNeedle ~ and what do supposed the topic for this blog might be? Insults - Dusty put a muzzel on your wife!

TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago

The Needle marrying Mr. Rhoades would be illegal in this state.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Needle ~ "and yes, cowardly (hiding behind aliases)." Your husband's quote no less. And what was the subject or topic of this blog - again? It's obvious you and Dusty are detractors who fling insults to keep everyone off topic. Who's paying you ~ Southern Software, Inc.?

TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago

My, once you people get a wrong idea in your heads you don't let it go, do you?

Sorry, wrong again. The Needle is a dude (who doesn't look like a lady).

You make this mocking thing far too easy.

None 2 years, 10 months ago

Needle ~ "and yes, cowardly (hiding behind aliases)." Your husband's quote no less. And what was the subject or topic of this blog - again?

You make this mocking thing far too easy. Off topic again....you write like a girl! Is it Janice?

TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago

"This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement."

The Needle is sorely vexed.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"Dusty did you call your wife Needle?"

No, but I know what to call you. And no, that's not a thinly veiled insult...because for someone who's so fanatical about protecting her anonymity, you've pretty definitely outed your real identity in this thread.

Good job!

TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago

Oh, my.

The Needle is going to make popcorn. This should be highly amusing to watch.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

I just talked to Brady Wooten, Yadkin County Commissioner. They estimate spending $80,000 per prisoner for a new jail compared to our $230,000 per inmate . He said the Federal reimbursement is $75 to $95 dollars a day. That makes the Yadkin County overhead after building costs are factored in $300 to $400 dollars a day. So, this is how much they are subsidizing the Federal Government to house their inmates per day.

Mr. Brady Wooten stated that he was in favor of paying $45 a day to house their inmates outside of the their county and not build a jail.

Mr. Wooten said they are paying 8.2 million for 110 inmates. He stated that it would only cost $500,000 to add another 40 beds to make the jail large enough for 150 inmates. Why are we then building the 'Gold Bar Hilton" for Moore County at triple the cost.

Mr. Wooten said they have paid $500,000 to Mosely Architects for their plans where we have paid 1.4 million for ours which includes a sheriffs office and 911 center. He also claimed the new jail proposed will have an increase staff cost of $90 to $120 per inmate.The future staffing cost has not been disclosed to the public by the Moore County Commissioners. Weigh all these numbers against what Moore County is paying and it is clear that the Moore County residents are not getting a good deal.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

O RLY?

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2010/apr/16/jail-is-still-a-hot-issue-in-yadkin-county/news-regional-yadkin/

"We'd paid a lot of money to house prisoners in other counties," Zachary said. "I think there's been a lot of money unfortunately wasted because of this. We're just going to revisit the issue. We're going to look at the plans and talk to the architects and if we can work it out to keep it in town, that's what we'll do."

Wooten opposes the Hoots Road site. He said that a downtown jail would mean lower costs transporting prisoners for court appearances, that it could be safer because it could possibly be located near the sheriff's office, and that it would keep a county facility in Yadkinville's center.

"The downtown location is the most economical in my opinion," he said. "I will vote only to put the jail facility in downtown Yadkinville. I will not vote to put it at Hoots Road."

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Mr. Wooten is also not returning to office.The new County Commissioners coming in are against the downtown site. Having trouble reading the numbers again? What was the point of my blog. I think it was the cost.

The residents are also suing and have held construction up for five years. It is now a rezoning fight. Hmm. No posted sign on Grimm property and bait and switch government offices "maybe a jail" . Wonder how far we would get and for how long????

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Sounds like commissioner Wooten wasn't opposed to a new jail...but he wants it downtown. At least he did in April.

Oh, the irony....

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

The point, Mrs. M, is that you claim Mr. Wooten told you he doesn't want to build a new jail at all, and his public quotes say something different.

Who's not being truthful will be left as an exercise for the reader.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Yep it was 4 to 1. Again the point is the cost difference.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Apples and oranges, Mrs. M. Apples and oranges.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Dusty You are exhausting. Business a little slow? Mr. Wooten said he was against a jail to begin with because Yadkin County could pay $45 per inmate to house their inmates outside of town. He was outnumbered by the other commissioners and then he joined in working on what and where to build the jail.How dare you insinuate I am not being truthful. Call Mr. Wooten yourself. He is someone who wanted the jail in town and we discussed that and costs. Not like you, I do listen to others. Going out Dusty, so write whatever snide comments you will. See ya.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"You are exhausting."

You have NO idea.

" Business a little slow?"

Actually, I'm on my lunch break. But thanks for asking. How's yours?

GodSaves 2 years, 10 months ago

@ LeeMcgraw "STOP THE TENSION CENTER!" One way this can be toned down is if the people get an opportunity to vote on the cost therefore they will know that the people have truly spoken. No blame could then be put upon the Commissioners. People just getting on this thread and trying to defend our Commissioners actions as well as to why we can't/shouldn't vote has not been nor in my opinion will ever be successful. Has it gotten us anywhere thus far? Obviously not if you felt compelled to say at this point "stop the tension." The way these people are defending them I believe is hurting them more than helping them. As I have said in a previous post....have the Commissioners do something out of the norm....make it a "monumental moment" in Moore County political history by our Commissioners taking a few steps backwards and letting them vote. That action would then show the people the Commissioners are truly trying to be out for them..... by wanting to hear their voices. At that point no one would have to defend them. As for the location if the people had the opportunity to vote and were given all the proper information....well then the people have spoken. If the size of the DC has considerably changed from the time of voting to now then adjustments need to be made. Size and/or location should be voted on again. Of course by doing this it could possibly cause a lot of work and plan changes but then the people will know that again the Commissioners are standing for the people's views and not just their own. Ignoring the people's voices and the way some have acted trying to defend the Commissioners I believe has played a big part in the cause of this chaos. By not having the opportunity to vote can really make one think that there is something greater for someone or someones somewhere.

It is bothersome that it has been put out there that the group of opposers are nothing but a "small" group. Based on the poll taken by The Pilot published on June 17 asking if the bond issue for the new DC warranted a referendum 68% said YES while 31% said NO. Those numbers are not reflecting a small group.

If nothing more is done for the people than what has been put out there thus far come election time I believe there will be some changes. In my opinion the ones who can "stop the tension center" is our Commissioners Mr. McGraw. Be Blessed :)

right2vote 2 years, 10 months ago

as much as i've enjoyed this whole process, i am frustrated at the same time. there are some things that have to be pointed out again and again. at no time, i repeat at no time, have those of us in the group entitled "stop the detention center in downtown carthage" not "stop the detention center no matter where you want to put it" never, i repeat, never have we been against the need for an improved public safety building. what we are opposed to, what was said meeting upon meeting from the town of carthage commissioners meetings to the county commissioners meetings was that we opposed the site!!!! we asked a multitude of times why we were not made aware of this decision by the town to change the zoning, by the town to approve the site for what had now become a large jail. no letters were sent to adjoining property owners advising them of these decisions. ONE little notice in the newspaper....i think someone has already addressed this, so, i'll just say that over and over again, we tried. not until all this southern software business became what has been the overriding issue have we gotten any real attention. again, we tried, after finding out that what we were told last summer had grown into a 52.5 million dollar 3-man decision, to put this to a vote for the people of moore county to decide. we had such high hopes when commissioner morgan offered a referendum to put this on the ballot for november and seconded by commissioner lea. hopes dashed again by these 3 men. obfuscation seems to be the agenda by some. please stick to the issues, money, money, money and placement, placement, placement.

LeeMcGraw 2 years, 10 months ago

I have to answer a pure lie again. Pay attention Plumblevel. I was out of town one day, when the electrician who was putting in a new service to the back of the building, called and said someone was screaming at the top of her lungs about the conduit he was running down my building. When I arrived, she was still screaming. I found out she was mad because he was running the conduit. If I could have etched a word in, I would have told him to run it inside the building. I was verbally attacked and finally had enough. I told him to just put it lower since it was precut and do it neatly. The ivey would cover it. Note: I have a right to walk down the side of my building and big note...it is my building! That is not trespassing. (2nd lie) 3rd lie...She stated i have people living in the building??!!! Somebody please call me tonight and walk through all the rooms so I can show you the building. Please! You will witness a lie Plumblevel puked firsthand! I use the back area for my workshop and storage area but don't recall ever sleeping there! Again, pure lies. Unbelievable. Oh...and the window. yes it was a window that had a rotting piece of plywood in it. The tenant obviously deserved better so I put a window in the hole. They got mad at that too!!! Unreal. I couldn't win. Then I put obscure glass in it. Nothing works. They wanted me to brick it up! Well, come see for yourself, it looks nice on the inside. They want me to ask for permisson to work on the outside. I really don't want to comment anymore. I'm ok with your rants...you have a right to blog if it is the truth and not abusive. (Plumb Screwed that up) Just don't lie. That's all. I have tried for years to make peace with neighbor but it is one-sided.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Oh, Abe, who is telling lies now. Did you not threaten to tear out this neighbors shrubery and pull down their ivy out of spite? If you are only allowed a foot into someones yard and you are wider than that then you are trespassing. If you enter someones private yard the civil thing to do is call first. At least you did not deny how you campaigned.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

God Saves Very well written. I agree with you all the chaos could stop if we could vote.Incumbents are getting thrown out of office all over the country. What better grounds do we have in Moore County than being robbed of our right to vote.

Right2Vote "Money" and "placement" the two top issues. It is too bad that it is so much money and the wrong placement. Yes, "obfuscation" seems to be the best word to describe the agenda of the Three Muskateers from the Dark Side.Totally agree with you and your name Right 2 Vote.

SCC student "Hola" I would be curious to know how many students Caddell recruits from SCC a year for Southern Software. I believe he has made public statements and bragged that he does this. If he is sitting on the SCC board is that not conflict of interest to use your position to get access to the better students. Is he not using his position to be able to talk to professors to find out who are the more qualified students are to work for him. Is that not using your position for financial gain for your company. It would appear to me that is conflict of interest. I guess you would not have the answer to this because I do not think you are a senior yet. Study hard. You could become a Caddell recruit!

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

Looks like plumblevel has a long standing grudge against Mr. McGraw that has nothing to do with the jail. Of course, that was hidden by plumb before. Wonder why she never mentioned it?

And now everyone who reads this board knows where you live. So much for your precious anonymity.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

You know, it's odd. When it comes to Caddell and Picerno, I find myself in much the same position I once took in regards to Hillary Clinton. That is to say: I'm not that big a fan....but some of the attacks on them are so grotesquely bizarre and unfair that I feel like I have to speak up.

And plumblevel/Mrs. M's charge of conflict of interest because Southern software hires prospects from Sandhills is just that: grotesque, bizarre, and unfair.

It's called networking, Mrs. M. It's how business is done everywhere. Even in design and building. Ask around.

And "Three Muskateers [sic]from the Dark Side" is just too hysterical and nutty for words.

There's a lot of hate in you, Mrs. M. There's clearly a lot of stored up resentment and grudges that color your judgment.

plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago

Go to bed Dusty. A lot of people know that story. The entire Carthage Museum knows it well and it spread from there. By the way, I will not be talking to you tomorrow. I have decided I need a more intellectual exchange with someone. Get a good nights sleep and give your pet Needle a pat on the head.

dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago

"By the way, I will not be talking to you tomorrow."

Oh, DARN.

Jail Opponents Resorting to Unfair Tactics

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