Software 'Conflict' Becomes an Issue
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Sheriff's Office Pleased With System
According to Chief Deputy Neil Godfrey, the sheriff's office is pleased with Southern Software's system. Click here to read the story.
Southern Software started providing computer programs and technical support to the Moore County Sheriff's Office in 2003. But things -started to get complicated in 2006.
That was when Larry Caddell, who is Southern's CEO and owns 40 percent of the company's stock, won election to the Moore County Board of Commissioners. A further complication came in 2008, when Nick Picerno, who once owned the company and still serves as its board chairman, also became a commissioner.
Caddell and Picerno point out that the county is paying Southern Pines-based Southern Software about $24,000 a year - a tiny amount in an $85 million annual county budget. But in recent months, the two men's connection to the company has come under intense scrutiny and criticism, mainly from opponents of the -county's plan to issue $50.5 million in bonds to build a new jail and public safety office complex on land adjoining the existing jail in downtown Carthage.
Allegations of conflict of interest have erupted in blogs and comments on The Pilot's website and letters in the Public Speaking section of the newspaper. Some have insinuated that part of the reason Caddell and Picerno are -pushing for the new jail and offices for the Sheriff's Office is that it will translate into more money for their company.
Both adamantly deny that and express outrage at having their -character brought into question.
"We do $10 million in business a year," Caddell said in an interview last week, "and $24,000 is not a lot of money. Like I am lining my own pocket by building a bigger jail. That is just a lie. This is a witch hunt. I haven't done anything -illegal."
Picerno chalks this up to an attempt to sidetrack efforts to build a larger jail, which he said is sorely needed.
"We have a group that is upset about having a jail shoved down their throats," he said. "I understand that. Nobody wants a jail next to them. Four years ago, before I came on the board, the board decided that that was the best place to build the jail. None of these people ever came to the county in 18 months to fuss about the location of the jail or the financing.
"But that has nothing to do with Southern Software. Now we have all these lies and innuendo. We are improving the security of the jail. We are moving the sheriff out of the cramped basement of the courthouse, and we are moving 911 out of the basement of -another building. We are -improving the safety of this county."
One of the reasons opponents are so upset is that three of the five commissioners, including Caddell and Picerno, rejected a proposal to let the voters decide the bond issue in a November referendum.
"Two of the commissioners who voted it down ignored a request to recuse themselves," Southern Pines attorney Jamie Clark wrote in a letter in Public Speaking in Friday's edition. He represents a group that opposes the jail.
"They are affiliated with Southern Software, which sells software to jails and law enforcement agencies," Clark wrote. "Their company donated its software to the Moore County Sheriff's Department, and if the county builds this state-of-the-art jail, it will provide a perfect showcase for the company to demonstrate its software, which it sells to other sheriff's departments for $350,000 plus a $25,000 annual maintenance fee."
Clark said such decisions "should be made by the citizens of Moore County and not by two men who will personally profit from the project."
'But Is It Ethical?'
County Attorney Misty Leland says the county's dealings with Southern Software with Caddell and Picerno on the board have been perfectly legal. Besides its involvement with the Sheriff's Office and jail, the company has also provided the billing system software for the Public Works Department since 1993.
"I personally did immense research when Larry first came on the board," Leland said. "A lot has gone into it."
That may be so, but some critics - including Board of Commissioners Chairman Tim Lea - say that at the very least there is the appearance of conflict of interest.
"It is not about the money," Lea said. "It's the principle. It's taxpayers' money we're talking about. This may be legal. But is it ethical?"
When Caddell, the former mayor of Carthage, was elected as a county commissioner, a state law allowed local governments to do business with a company in which an elected official has a direct financial benefit - as long as the value of the contract did not exceed $25,000 and as long as the population of any town in the county did not exceed 15,000. Last year, the state legislature increased the allowable money amount to $40,000, though the population limit remains the same.
Frayda Bluestein, with the School of Government at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, considered an expert on this issue, said the exemption in the law is intended to help small areas where there may be limited access to certain services.
'Not About the Money'
Caddell said he was well aware of the law when he came on the board.
"I would just as soon give it away," he said. "It is not about the money. We made it $24,002 (the contract). We aren't anywhere near the maximum allowed. Moore County is our home. We wanted to have our own county [as a customer]. That was important to us. We all live here and work here. If a town ever hits 15,000, I guess we won't get a dime as long as I am on the board. I knew that going in."
Caddell quickly points out that the company has provided a great deal more in terms of software and services to the county than what it is getting paid for - and that the county would pay a lot more for this kind of system from another vendor.
The county had been paying the previous vendor about $37,000 a year for a system that did far less than what the county now has, according to Chief Deputy Neil Godfrey.
Caddell said that for nearly two years, before the county received a $29,000 grant, the Sheriff's Office "was basically running the mobile computer-aided dispatch (CAD) system for free."
The Sheriff's Office wanted its system to interface with Emergency Medical Services and the 911 center. But there was no way all of that could happen with Caddell sitting on the board. So the company simply donated about $350,000 worth of software and equipment to the county in 2007, Caddell said.
"We wanted to take care of our own county," Caddell said.
According to Godfrey, the county would have had to pay about $212,000 for the CAD alone, and another $136,000 for the mobile system, including EMS and the 911 system.
"It would have been a much more substantial expense for the county," he said
Caddell said that is why he finds it so discouraging that -questions are now being raised about whether something is -illegal or inappropriate, given what the company has done for the county.
"I know politics is a full-contact sport," Caddell said. "If you want to come after me, fine. But to come after Southern Software and its employees is not right. Leave my company out of it. It has only done good here. We have done this to help our county.
"We certainly don't charge by the bed as far as the jail is concerned. I am not trying to take advantage of the -system. Our own sheriff will tell you that this system has helped solve crimes. And now to end up as the goat, it is disheartening. You aren't just talking about Larry Caddell. You are -talking about all of our employees. People say there is a hint of conflict of interest. It just isn't there."
Trying to Derail Jail?
Picerno asserts that all of the allegations are nothing more than an attempt to derail the jail project.
"If we are doing something illegal, we would be the first inmates in that new detention center," he said. "We've tried to do the right thing, and we are being punished."
Once the Sheriff's Office has new quarters and an expanded jail, Godfrey said, it is unlikely that it will mean paying more money to Southern Software. He said the county has enough concurrent licenses for the system and that the number of jail beds has nothing to do with it.
"We are pretty well covered for the future," he said.
Some critics also charge that the company wants to use Moore County as a showcase for its products to aid in selling them to other departments.
"They have old offices and an old jail," Caddell said. "I have 1,000 other showplaces. If someone calls Neil and wants him to let them see it, that is his call."
But Lea, who has worked in the health care software business and is now a consultant, thinks Caddell is being disingenuous by saying that the only -benefit his company receives is the $24,000 the county pays it a year.
"There's a value when a vendor wants use a site to showcase their products," Lea said. "That might be one of the reasons Larry donated the software to the -county. I am happy and excited that the county was able to receive this donation. To say that the only value they receive is the monthly or annual maintenance fee is simply not true."
Lea said he wants the county to be as transparent as possible in all its dealings, which he said is why he proposed approving the 2010-2011 budget in a series of five separate motions - including one that covered Southern Software.
'A Judgment for the People'
He wanted a separate vote on the budget for Sandhills Community College, another on the budget for the public schools, one on line-item changes, one on Southern Software and one "to tie it all together." He said he felt that the SCC budget should have been handled separately since Caddell is a college trustee and votes on that budget. He said the board could have excused Caddell from voting on that "to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest" on that as well.
Leland said that under the law, Caddell has no more legal conflict of interest on the college budget than on the Southern Software issue.
On the Southern Software matter, Lea said he felt that the board should at least have discussed whether it was appropriate for Caddell and Picerno to vote.
"If we broke out Southern Software, the board would have to vote to excuse Larry and Nick from voting," he said. "I had no problem with that if they did."
Lea said he simply wanted the public to be fully aware of what was going on and what the board was approving.
"We all ran on transparency," he said. "Do they have a right to vote on the budget? There is already a contract in place. That is part of the budget. That is something called a gray area. Is it ethical? You have people being paid money by the county they are elected to represent and vote on the budget. It is money coming from the people paying the taxes.
"The board's position was to be as transparent as possible. We wanted to be more open. All five commissioners agreed to it. Then they ramrod this through (in one vote). Something is wrong with the process. It is not about the dollar amount. It is taxpayer money that is being spent. I know people want to make this a personal issue. It is about ethics and whether we are adhering to it as the people who pay the bills expect us to."
Caddell, Picerno and Jimmy Melton voted to approve the budget as one action. Lea and Cindy Morgan dissented.
"Tim wanted to drag me and Southern Software through the mud," Caddell said. "We have never done it that way [splitting the budget into multiple motions] in the history of Moore County."
Lea said the entire matter has nothing to with whether he is concerned about the perception of a conflict of interest.
"I am trying to adhere to the law," he said.
According to Bluestein, with the UNC School of Government, there was nothing illegal about the way the board approved the budget, since no contracts were singled out.
"Legally, it's not a problem," she said. "If a contract is already in place, the statute obligates them (the county) to pay. It's not a discretionary decision. If they are renewing a contract, it would be appropriate for the person to be excused from voting. It's a legislative judgment on the part of the board. It's a legitimate concern to raise. The board has the discretion to go forward under the exemption or to not allow the person to vote."
Bluestein agrees, though, that situations like this can sometimes get sticky.
"If there is an appearance of a conflict of interest," she said, "it is a judgment for the people of the community."
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Comments
GeorgiaMan 2 years, 10 months ago
Two things - Cindy Morgan is gone in November - Sour Grapes - GOODBYE
Tim Lea having a problem with ethics - Why doesn't The Pilot look into his families dealings with their personal property and the cell phone tower industry. Mighty interesting zoning changes were approved so his family could garner monthly paychecks from the owners of those cell phone towers.
Southernfried 2 years, 10 months ago
@Georgia Man
My husband attended the 'cell phone' meeting of the board of commissioners meeting awhile back. A private company had been hired to make reccommendations. Mr. Lea did not push his own agenda at that meeting. You could request a copy of the companys recommendations and compare them to the locations that were finally decided on. While you are at it check out Mr. Caddells GIS listings. How do you buy land at $350 to $850 an acre in Moore county? When land has structures on it I do not think it qualifies as tree farms.
Tim Lea and Cindy Morgan were the only two Moore County Commissioners who have been honest about this 50 million dollar bond issue. They both wanted this issue to go to a public referendum in November. If Caddell, Picerno, and Melton were honest why would they not have agreed to a public vote? Instead Caddell, Picerno, and Melton chose to avoid the Moore County taxpayer and voted 3-2 on these limited obligation bonds at a higher rate.
If you have any question about the direction Southern Software is going in go their website. They are currently in 11 states which leaves 41 states to develop their software sales. Isn't a big glamorous showroom and new sheriffs department located near their home office paid for by the tax payers of Moore County a huge asset? I wonder why Caddell was in California this last week. No, I am afraid, the tax payer has simply been duped into paying for a huge showroom for Southern Software to the tune of 40 million dollars.
Yes, there is a need for a new jail. The current Detention Center averages 110 inmates a month.So, in this economy double it at most. Moore County is currently 104 million in debt in bonds and loans.Do you really think this is a wise decision in this economy or did greed just take over with personal interest projects?
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
Wow. Actual facts.
Not that it'll make a lick of difference to the fact-resistant anti-jail crowd.
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
The anti-DC crowd is objecting to the location. Next, there is the cost. Why does this monstrosity have to be placed smack dab in the middle of "Sweet Carthage" close to the school, churches & library? I'm talking about the future high rise DC and not the small existing one. Think what this is going to do to the Town and gateway to Pinehurst- Southern Pines. The question still unanswered here on this blog is what was the Town told when the application for rezoning was done? There is a lot of difference in a "governmental complex and expand the sherrif dept and jail a little" than what this has finally ended up to be..a HIGH RISE DETENTION CENTER with super sized capacity, 3 or 4 floors according to reported architectural drawings.
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
Actually, Maude, I AM drinking the Carthage water, because I live there. That's where "I get off" expressing my opinion.
But thanks for, once again, proving my point.
PS I'm not sure what the problem is with your water, but mine's fine. Maybe the bitterness you taste is in you?
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
""There's a value when a vendor wants use a site to showcase their products," Lea said. "That might be one of the reasons Larry donated the software to the -county. I am happy and excited that the county was able to receive this donation. To say that the only value they receive is the monthly or annual maintenance fee is simply not true."
Okay, let's think this through. The only way the jail would be a showcase is if the product worked, and worked well, no? So the county gets working software, below its retail cost, for the cost of the maintenance fee. AND this software is already in use in the old jail, which would be a "showcase" already.
And "transparency": To quote the movie "The Princess Bride", You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
If the connection between Caddell and Picerno and Southern Software, or the cost of the software, or the cost of the jail, other salient facts had been concealed, THEN it would be a lack of transparency. But all of this stuff has been out in the open for months or even years.
right2vote 2 years, 10 months ago
thank you to the pilot for finally printing some facts.
thank you to the group of people from carthage and moore county that have been trying to maintain the historical nature of the town. the simple fact is this group has NEVER resisted the need of a new public safety facility - just the placement of it and now the ever changing cost.
as to the the "APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY" well, that speaks for itself. why not recuse yourself, commissioners caddell and picerno. i believe that jamie clark said it best at the meeting on june 21, "if it's a good idea now, it will be a good idea in november at the ballot box". this expenditure is a lot to put on the backs of many people in this county who live from paycheck to paycheck. the question that remains unanswered still is how are you paying for this?
SoBelle 2 years, 10 months ago
Why can't my friends and I vote on how our money is being spent? Now three people in Moore County can decide my constitutional right to vote on matters of public trust. They were obviously voted into office to represent the interests of the people - not to surreptitiously surpress our right to vote! What do they have to hide? If it smells badly, something is rotten somewhere.
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
"Why can't my friends and I vote on how our money is being spent? Now three people in Moore County can decide my constitutional right to vote on matters of public trust. "
Show me in the Constitution where it says you have the right to vote on anything other than who will represent you. Show me where it says you have the right to vote on individual expenditures.
I want a cite to an actual section or amendment, from either the US or North Carolina Constitutions, that supports your right to vote on this jail.
You want to say a Constitutional right is being violated, you need to be able to back that up.
right2vote 2 years, 10 months ago
sobelle - well said.
as an aside, to larry, darryl and darryl - i have some swamp land in moore county that won't perk, has some artesian wells along with wetlands and probably won't pass inspection from DEHNR. could you advise how i can get a limited obligation bond at a higher rate without notifying my neighbors for my reasonable asking price of 1.5 million - no problem getting correct zoning for anything you want to build. town's a pushover.
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
Here. I'll even help you:
NC Constitution:
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/legislation/constitution/ncconstitution.html
US Constitution:
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
Knock yourself out. If you can find one section--ONE--that gives you a right to a referendum on a county expenditure, I will publicly apologize to you.
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
From David Sinclair’s article: "county's plan to issue $50.5 million in bonds to build a new jail and public safety office complex on land adjoining the existing jail in downtown Carthage."
Now that is getting better than just 52.5 for a new Detention Center, and now taxpayers will have both for just 50.5 million. Are there any other discrepancies in his article?
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
Dusty ~ just thought I would jump in here since you and an other have a tendacy to chastise little old ladies. That's mighty bold of you!
Sec. 4. Limitations upon the increase of local government debt.
(1) Regulation of borrowing and debt. The General Assembly shall enact general laws relating to the borrowing of money secured by a pledge of the faith and credit and the contracting of other debts by counties, cities and towns, special districts, and other units, authorities, and agencies of local government.
(2) Authorized purposes; two-thirds limitation. The General Assembly shall have no power to authorize any county, city or town, special district, or other unit of local government to contract debts secured by a pledge of its faith and credit unless *approved by a majority of the qualified voters of the unit who vote thereon, *except for the following purposes:
(a) to fund or refund a valid existing debt;
(b) to supply an unforseen deficiency in the revenue;
(c) to borrow in anticipation of the collection of taxes due and payable within the current fiscal year to an amount not exceeding 50 per cent of such taxes;
(d) to suppress riots or insurrections;
(e) to meet emergencies immediately threatening the public health or safety, as conclusively determined in writing by the Governor;
(f) for purposes authorized by general laws uniformly applicable throughout the State, to the extent of two-thirds of the amount by which the unit's outstanding indebtedness shall have been reduced during the next preceding fiscal year.
The General Assembly may authorize a county, city, or town issuing these instruments of indebtedness to pledge, as additional security, revenues available to the issuing unit from sources other than the issuing unit's exercise of its taxing power. As long as no revenues are pledged other than the set‑aside proceeds authorized by this section and the revenues authorized in the preceding sentence, these instruments of indebtedness may be issued without approval by referendum. The county, city, or town may not pledge as security for these instruments of indebtedness any property tax revenues other than the set‑aside proceeds authorized in this section, or in any other manner pledge its full faith and credit as security for these instruments of indebtedness unless a vote of the people is held as required by and in compliance with the requirements of Section 4 of this Article.
Apparently an insurrection is in order to meet the letter of the General Statues of North Carolina or a letter from the Govenor.
This whole think stinks of politics - plain and simple. Why do the taxpayers have to pay for an attorney for Mulla Larry, Tricky Nickie, and whose that other guy who's is there in body only?
SoBelle 2 years, 10 months ago
Thank you SCCstudent. They all have the law on their side and the politicans who make the laws so there is not an inkling of impropriaty. Could those laws be the same one's that the liberal democratic Congress is using to spend us into trillions in debt? just wondering. But aren't those boys in Carthage Republican?
clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago
This article is transparent. 1993 - 2010 equals 17 years. $350,000 X 17 = $5,950,000. Thank you Southern Software for your 6 million dollar gift to Moore County.
On another note. Can someone please tell who the commissioners were at the time the Grimm property was voted on and how each one voted?
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
SCC student: and in what way specifically, does this funding violate that section?
If you think it does, feel free to file a lawsuit, but I expect if there was any legal basis to do so, Jamie Clarke (who's a VERY smart lawyer) would have done so instead of just writing letters to the Pilot.
right2vote 2 years, 10 months ago
dusty,
at the june 21 meeting the attorneys from "raleigh" representing moore county's bond needs, explained in a very lengthy power point presentation that these commissioners had applied for a higher interest limited obligation bond that would allow them to "go to market quickly", not have to have a public vote and didn't "necessarily" raise taxes. a lower interest general obligation bond would require a public vote and is normally used for this kind of expenditure. they originally asked for 52.5 million but lowered it to 50 million (they were really padding the cushion) wow, what a deal. so, we don't need the constitution to vote on this issue, just the right bond. is your office "DUSTY" or just your brain.
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
So Right2vote, the constitution does NOT require a vote, now does it? Which was the point.
airportu 2 years, 10 months ago
I have a solution.....it requires alot of help. Vote in 5 more commissioners so we don't have to read about this crap anymore.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
"It is about ethics and whether we are adhering to it as the people who pay the bills expect us to." To me this is the bottom line. It's our money.
"which it sells to other sheriff's departments for $350,000 plus a $25,000 annual maintenance fee."
clbvpm ~ This article is transparent. 1993 - 2010 equals 17 years. $350,000 X 17 = $5,950,000. Thank you Southern Software for your 6 million dollar gift to Moore County.
Your math is as unpredictable as Neil Godfrey's line chart. Where did those numbers come from ~ Larry Caddell? What kind of software costs $350,000. V-Ray that was used to produce the movie AVATAR didn't cost that much http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/index.html
I can order the same version for $999.00. Inflated dollars to support a conflict of public interest and trust.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Dusty ~ So Right2vote, the constitution does NOT require a vote, now does it? Which was the point.
As many Americans have concluded, "What's the point of voting anyway", those who are bought, sold and corrupted already have a seat with special interests and their lobbyists. And if Larry Caddell's interests aren't self-serving, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you. But it's not Larry or Nicks money, it is ours, the taxpayers. See my point? What do they know that we don't? Laws are in place to "protect" them according to our attorney paid for with taxpayers money. What makes them so important that they can circumvent the will of the people to vote on 102.5 million of our money. If Southern Software is making so much money, why don't they buy Pinehurst a $500,000. water tank and put their name on it?
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
Dusty Roads => [July 4, 2010 at 2:40 p.m.]
Jamie Clarke (who's a VERY smart lawyer) would have done so instead of just writing letters to the Pilot.
I'm sure Mr. Clarke works for a fee and not for free. He is very intelligent, that's probably why the concerned citizens taxpayers group retained his services.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
@Toda I think CLBVPM is being extremely sarcastic. The software at most was around 100k and one time only. Just think the employees that Caddell valiantly defended are the only ones who know what a complete mistruth these numbers are. CLBVPM is the same one who double checked their facts on the number of deadbeat dads. Eddie Johnson lied when he told everyone there were 60 deadbeat dads in the jail and in reality there were only two. I think CLBVPM is just calling them out again.Read it again. It is pure sarcasm.Caddell sure did not produce any receipts. @CLBVPM I think Colin McKenzie, Michael Holden, and ? were Moore County Commissioners at the time the Grimm property was sold. Will check on it and get back to you.
coffecreme 2 years, 10 months ago
okay at the risk of getting pounced on.... arent the County Commissioners taxpayers too?
difflook 2 years, 10 months ago
With all the "hard" issues in our lives, and county, its sad to see this much disregard, jealously and maybe even hate for our fellow man. People are entitled to their opinions, but at the expense of others feelings and stating untruths. I know all the players, friends of all. When you have strong leaders like we do in the commissioners in Moore County, sometime they clash. The ideal situation would be to sit down and work it out, but maybe they can't. I do know when the focus is taken off the things that matter, of providing services and helping the citizens of the COUNTY that they serve, it takes away from the true issues that face us. For what ever reasons, the need for an expanded jail was identified, the people that were elected made a decision, thats what we elected them to do, made one. I believe that all this negativity is giving our county a black eye! Enough wouldn't you think? If someone was on the wrong tract with the software companies donation, which started years before, the county attorney would have an obligation to say so, and certainly the Auditors who are required to audit the county books would, They are not going to lose their license over trying to approve something that is not. So what if someone comes to view our jail and the software? Shouldn't we be PROUD they want to come? Towns and Counties do that all the time. From looking at the software company website, its not just the Commissioner(s) who are giving this gift, it says it is "EMPLOYEE" owned, therefore wouldn't all of the owners (the employees) have had to approve that? IF so I guess those folks better look out? People are going to start calling them and chastizing them over donating to their home county. But anyway, if we care enough about our county, we'll stop this negativity! We are blessed more than we realize of all thats here, look at the tax rates, governments of Moore's surrounding Counties! JOIN together and focus on what can be accomplished! All younger citizens are watching!
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
A little math: ($350,000_ "gift" of software the first year PLUS 16 yrs subscription X $24,002 ($384,032) = $734,032 , but the actual spent approximately if the 24,002 was the same every year was $384,032. That is a lot of taxpayer money, even over 16 years. I don't think the 350,000 initial fee is every year for 17 years. It that is true, then it was nowhere near $6 million. So what if it was a gift, S.Software stands to benefit from taxpayer money for many years to come through its yearly contract with the county and it will add up.
The "black eye" this county is getting in the future is a huge monstrosity called a Detention Center with about 600+ person capacity in the county seat, a historic town named Carthage, between McNeill Street and Dowd Street. This is 1 block off NC Hwys 24/27/22. McNeill St is NC Hwy 22 S, the gateway to Southern Pines and Pinehurst that connects to 15-501 S. Not only is it wrong to place a "facility" of such magnitude at this location, it will ruin the the looks of the town.
Once this DC is built there, it will be too late to do anything about it. And, now the cost to the taxpayers is exorbitant at a time when the economy is down and there will obviously be a tax increase to pay off this debt. It's just a bad idea at this time and at this location.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
@airportu
You will have two choices this November to vote Melton out of office. There is a young man running from Pinebluff, William Garner, on the Democratic ticket for Moore County Commissioner.Tommy Davis from Aberdeen has stated he plans to be a write in candidate on the Republican ticket. It is time to clean house in Moore County.
Melton is as guilty as Caddell and Picerno. He has voted with them on every issue. Without Melton, they would not have been able to burden the taxpayers of Moore County with this 50 million dollar limited obligation bond.I do not think he ever has cast a vote separating himself from Picerno and Caddell.
So, at least it is a beginning.We can start to clean house at the polls in November.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
coffecreme [July 4, 2010 at 8:58 p.m.] Pounced on because you made an observation? Not likely. They are taxpayers as well as the rest of us. As a Licensed Building Contractor, should I defeat Jimmie Melton in November, would it be appropriate that I would build the new Detention Center without any bids from other prime contractors? The only question is the amount of revenue now at $40,000. by State Statues. Now if I was excused from voting, and carried a majority, then perhaps I could benefit from the same "sweet" deal Southern Software is involved with now. The only difference I am one person and one voice; presently two commissioners ( Caddell and Picerno ) control the majority. Would there be any backlash from voters? I expect there should be.
If my palm was being greased with taxpayer money, should I ethically discharge the duties of my office, or place the interest of my company ahead of the interests of the people and happily pay more in taxes? As a taxpayer with 200 million in pending debt, you be the judge.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
plumblevel [July 4, 2010 at 6:38 p.m.] It's sort of like cost analysis when the tax department appraises property. It's not worth a dime if no one is willing to buy it. Soon that will be the case for Carthage homeowners. The county tax office appraises property with an eye on collecting higher tax revenue. I went through that fiasco during the last county evaluation. Due to plummiting home values the entire residental housing market, and especially in Carthage, will the tax office do the right thing and lower values based on national and regional housing market decreases for declining property values? I think not!
Southern Software can label the cost of their software provided to the county with any figure they choose. Any mathematician will say that numbers are easily manipulated to produce a result when established protocols, sample methodology and statistical data are not found to be in keeping with quantitative or qualitative samples used to calculate a standard deviation for the mean.
Are we as taxpayers and voters [except on how our money is spent], lead to believe that because a Power Point presentation used to insult the intelligence of Moore County residents, because they present what they consider factual, we should consider the information and data to be true and - factual? I guess that is what they think we should do – lap dogs roll over and play dead…and mindless citizens blindly accept what our government tells us and we are to accept their spin without hesitation. Happening here and in Washington. Burden the taxpayer even more in the worst economy since the Great Depression...what were they thinking?
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
Shorter Toda: "facts are stupid things."
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
@Bflat Thanks for summing it up, "It is just a bad idea at this time and at this location." That is about it!
@Toda I would like to hear more of your ideas. I am a small business owner. What are these County Commissioners doing to help me? Quite the opposite. I will have to eventually pay more in property taxes because of their wasteful spending on self interest projects. Should this wasted money not be put to better use helping small business owners like me.
What about the county employees the commissioners have denied salary inceases to? And yet they can spend 40 million on a building that is not needed at this time? I realize they need a new jail but can they not go back to the drawing board and come up with new plans that are reasonable in this economy? They will not get my vote. What do you offer?
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
"What do you offer?"
That is an excellent question. Toda's engaged in one of the most egregious tactics of the weak, lazy, and dishonest debater: he simply dismisses inconvenient facts, other people's research, and data by airily saying "we don't have to believe that" , without offering any facts or research of his own to counter.
So, Toda: let's hear your estimate of the worth of the software, or a point by point critique of the Powerpoint presentation you found so "insulting" to your "intelligence." How much could YOU, Mr. Contractor, build the jail for that's so much cheaper, and what's YOUR estimate of the needs of the county for jail space, and upon what do you base your figures?
Because if you really do intend to run for office, you'll have to answer these questions, and not just play up to a bunch of malcontents on the Internet.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
TheNeedle ~ so where is their verifiable data? Perhaps you've been privy to statistical data that wasn't provided by the power of three or Neil Godfrey. Intellectually ~ one can't discount "factual" data that hasn't been placed against public scrutiny or evaluated as such. It's part of the transparancy issue. A hypothetical hypothesis is at best a weak argument when presented in an elementary Power Point presentation. I know some eigth graders at Aberdeen Middle School who can guess-té-mate or provide you a WAG.
As far as your sarcastic remark about my being a Licensed General Contractor – you need some coaching from the Construction Manager hired by the county. Then perhaps an intelligent conversation may develop. Are you smitten by the fact that you're not a Building Contractor? Or not savvey enough to know what you are trying to talk about. You couldn't hold an intellectual conversation if you were talking to yourself in a mirror. You've provided nothing on either side of the debate.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Flactem ~ as I understand it, the county is broken down into five districts and from each district within the county a representative is elected to represent those who reside within that district. In order to get qualification for your question, call the Board of Elections. I'm sure they know the laws much better than I.
I haven't forgotten about our other blog reminiscing about Moore County. Just last Saturday I was asked if and when I would consider writing a book about growing up in Moore County. If only it could have retained only a fraction of that Southern Culture, how much better this county would be today. I haven’t had an opportunity to speak with him during church services due to our summer service schedules. And, he’s not singing in the choir this summer. I haven’t forgotten - and I intend to pursue the interest of many here in Moore County. I’m going to pull the Letter to the Editor that I told you about from an old hard drive where I think it is stored. Great read! I'm not sure how long or if The Pilot retains a copy.
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
Toda: So, you've got nothing except reiterations of "I don't believe the figures" without any of you own, then? Thought so.
Once you get out of this little on-line enclave where people like SCCStudent and SoBelle hang on your every word, you'd better be more prepared than this, or you're going to get your head handed to you.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
plumblevel ~ "What do you offer?" first and foremost – total transparency in local government. Build a data base with statistical data compiled in a logical and efficient manner; data that is verifiable not hypothetical as with 40-50 year projections - that assumption is totally ludicrous. Plan small and spend small: You know the Japanese are so far advanced than we are in this country for component construction. Modules can be constructed for limited production or mass production. If Sheriff Carter needs 50 - 75 - or 100 beds to meet state requirements over a period of years, then those bed requirements could be assembled and set with-in a few days from order. Contractors use pre-stressed concrete all of the time for basements and foundations. Then as the need increases for more space, spend to meet those needs as opposed to WAGing what the future will be with respect to the needs of this county decades down the road. Out of respect for those who own property in and around Carthage, move the facility to the outskirts of town - the old prison property is an ideal location as opposed to Main Street. Have the commissioners considered compensating homeowners for depreciated property values? Have they provided consultation for homeowners to have certified appraisers provide real time data on the effect that the new multi-floor complex will have on Real Estate values in the present market. There is more to all of this discussion than of ethical issues with Southern Software and Caddell and Picerno. It's about transparency and providing factual data from reliable sources, presenting that data using mathematical statistical formulas to produce a result taxpayers and voters can comprehend. Have town hall meetings and put the real facts out there and then let the people decide as opposed to a three person vote. And I’m certain Sheriff Carter is please with the software applications his staff has available to them – as opposed to nothing at all or limited application software.
As a former small business owner, I found the challenges greater than that of larger companies. Taxes are higher, personal income tax is higher, state requirements for General liability and Workers Compensation, capitalized the major revenue for my company. When we were at a 3% profit margin after expenses, making a living wasn't an option any longer. In this economy, retailers, builders, remodelers, subcontractors, and material suppliers are just barely keeping their heads above water and most are on the brink of bankruptcy. Increasing tax burdens on the working class at this time seems to be a matter of lack of concern for the citizens of Moore County. With increasing costs, I wonder how anyone can project the cost of a new building without a cost escalation clause in their contract. The Town of Southern Pines experienced that with their new building.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
TheNeedle: I look forward to meeting you in a public forum and a formal debate. I also look forward to debating the issues with Wayne Garner and Jimmie Melton. Perhaps you would like to debate me on a stage and hand me my head! Is that the best you can come up with? Any time ~ any place. You can even chose the place. How can you pass on an offer like that? I'm confident I can put you in your place!
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Flactem ~ ENRON ring a bell?
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
Toda, you're far too thin skinned to survive an actual public debate if you can't keep your cool any better than this on an Internet comment section. I look forward to the explosion if someone throws even a tenth of the rhetoric at you that you've thrown at the...what do you call them..."gang of three?" Let's see you face one of these people and compare them to the mafia or the "kings of old." You'll be revealed for the old crank you are.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
@Toda Amen. It appears you do indeed understand the problems of a small business owner. I look forward to hearing you in a debate. It looks like you can hold your own!
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
Needle => who said you could bring up my screen name? You can't read or at least comprehend. You need a better coach than Larry Caddell! Did you happen to see that movie Dumb and Dumber? Art imitating life.
"the...what do you call them..."gang of three?" I bet you can't provide a thread time and date that Toda said that! You adlib to supplement your lack of knowledge when it comes to issues, or anything of substance. You’re so positive that Toda can’t hold his own in a debate, he made you an offer – step on up to the podium. What is that clucking sound I hear: cluck – cluck –cluck; is it your avatar playing with a needle. O’ that’s you…my perro’s can’t read, comprehend or write either.
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
ChuckTaylor => I will lay you odds 5-1 that he/she doesn't take him up on a debate. She can't stay on topic long enough to complete a thought ~ just sarcastic jabs. He would take her lunch. I know - I've tried that before - for lunch. Why can't people ask pertinent questions that are relevant to the issues at hand?
GoldenDreams 2 years, 10 months ago
Needle, no more name-calling. Toda wants to debate you on the issues. He even said you could choose the place. Are you agreeable?
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
Hey Needle => "this on an Internet comment section." it's called a blog -once you post - it's called a thread. Do you consider yourself an intellectual? Or what?
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
Thank you for the invite, Toda, but I'm not running. You say you are. Why don't you face the Commissioner you'd be running against and call HIM names in debate?
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
You are right, for once SCC. Toda did not use the term "gang of three." He did use the term "powers of three" July 2, 2010 at 8:50 p.m:
"I wonder how many voters in the last election were aware of how the powers of three were subliminally strategizing for Southern Software, Inc. growth. "
He has also compared the commissioners to Kim Jong Il, tyrants, and the Mafia.
And yet you seem to have no problem with HIS calling people names, now do you? Hypocrites.
Of course, it's not THEM he wants to face in debate--it's some stranger who tweaked his nose on a message board.
We have yet to hear his own factual underpinning for his claims, only "I don't believe the reports and the research". But you sheep gather round, bleating at what a wise man your dear leader is.
Pfft. good luck winning the election with the five votes you get here, you old crank. If those five'll get off their duffs and out from in front of the computer to vote, which seems unlikely.
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
"Needle => who said you could bring up my screen name?"
"it's called a blog -once you post - it's called a thread."
SCCStudent, The fact that you think I need permission to mention you on a public forum where you post frequently, and then try to give ME lessons in the Internet, is just one more in a long string of examples of how painfully stupid you are. You are truly idiotic enough to make one's head hurt.
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
"What is that clucking sound I hear: cluck – cluck –cluck"
What are you, eight years old?
"yet you seem to have no problem with HIS calling people names, now do you? "
As always, the people who whine the loudest about 'name-calling" are the ones who are the most eager to do it, or to support the ones who do.
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
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SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
Hey Needle => "You are right, for once SCC. Toda did not use the term "gang of three." He did use the term "powers of three" July 2, 2010 at 8:50 p.m:" Since you adlibbed again and told an outright lie, you should kneel down and kiss his "ring"!
Our resident law student used deity when referring to Toda as: " HIS calling people names, now do you? "
Spot that (/) => all caps. Toda's a really nice person but I'm certain he's never thought of himself as devine. But thanks anyhow dusty road.
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
Pilot Staff => I bet your advertisers are having a steller moment with all of this bickering going on here. I think this one might break the 200 mark as well. Go advertising department. We've got a live one here....(;-)
My hats off to your computer genius for providing us with such an outstanding web presence. You rock!
summer10 2 years, 10 months ago
David Cummings was one of the old commissioners
GRITS 2 years, 10 months ago
Interesting to see The Pilot front page article this weekend. Too bad that the whole article seems to be focused on "conflict of interest". And why was there an additional written piece within The Pilot article on the merits of the software products?? The quality of the software is not the ISSUE.
Nowhere did it openly talk about the issues of cost to the citizens of Moore County. Is it really necessary to have such a large facility? Does everyone realize that Moore County is already in debt to the tune of 104 million dollars? How can anyone think that taking on more bond debt will not translate into higher taxes?
SoPines4ever 2 years, 10 months ago
Just wait and see, Cary McSwain is the problem in Moore County government. The sooner he's sent packing, the better everything will be.
GoldenDreams 2 years, 10 months ago
SoPines4ever, you've said several times (on different blogs) that Cary McSwain is the problem in Moore County government. Please explain so we know exactly what you mean.
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
Picerno said in the article, as quoted here: "..... Four years ago, before I came on the board, the board decided that that was the best place to build the jail. None of these people ever came to the county in 18 months to fuss about the location of the jail or the financing." Well, sorry to inform you Mr. Picerno, but 4 years ago, the voter/citizens/taxpayers didn't know the actual size of the jail and that it would be a High Rise Detention Center to the tune of around $50 ! How is that just expanding the sherrif Dept and jail a little bit? The Town of Carthage moved its Police Station, Fire Dept & Town offices out of downtown and have a nice governmental complex that serves them well. The Sheriff Dept & DC should be moved out of downtown. The current proposed site could be used for something else.
Another thing, why are Caddell and Picerno just now jumping in to say that the taxpayers are telling "lies and innuendo?" "Caddell quickly points out that the company has provided a great deal more in terms of software and services to the county than what it is getting paid for - and that the county would pay a lot more for this kind of system from another vendor." Why all the generosity in just giving the software and services to the county? It sounds to me like Moore County is/was a beta testing site for Southern Software. In other words, the county was given the software in exchange for using the sheriff dept as a guinea pig to further develop and test the software. Take it from there to move on and make a pile of money selling the software elsewhere after it has been tweaked and improved to the ultimate! Also, why all of a sudden are Caddell and Picerno trying to defend themselves?
Well, as someone once said, "It ain't fair , but it's legal." It may be legal but is it ethical the way things have evolved? Have the commissioners really acted in the best interest of the taxpayers in making the best use of our money? I think not! Building a DC in the middle of a historic town, in a down economy, is a bad idea. Put the DC somewhere else and only build a little of it at a time, expand later as needed.
In the meantime, making our county safer could be done by increasing the number of deputies and their salaries so we have the very best continuing to work for us.
SoPines4ever 2 years, 10 months ago
Cary McSwain is the County Manager by default. No one else would take the job. The Board offered him the position knowing that he had lied on his resume that was submitted for the position of interim manager. In addition, he had agreed to be interim manager only, and didn't want the position permanently. He had supposedly retired a time or two before. He has lied to various Town officials about water and sewer matters so often that he can't remember his lies. I have witnessed some of them.
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
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SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
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SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
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SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
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dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
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GodSaves 2 years, 10 months ago
@ Toda In reference to the post- "Toda, you're far too thin skinned to survive an actual public debate if you can't keep your cool any better than this on an Internet comment section."
You have been so cool that I feel the need to put on a jacket. God will bless you my friend:)
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
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dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
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TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
Hey, what did I do?
SCCstudent 2 years, 10 months ago
Thank you Pilot Staff - maybe we can discuss issues facing the citizens of Moore County.
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
I'm curious. How is a criminal and civil trial lawyer supposed to benefit from a larger jail?
And "shoved down out throats" seems to be the new buzzword for losing a political issue. This used to be called "being a sore loser."
As for the "trucking in water"...that's just bizarre. Hundreds of companies in many towns and cities, have water coolers. It doesn't mean the local water's unfit to drink.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
Dusty
Most normal people do not want a prison two football fields long filled with 600-700-840 inmates 'shoved down their throat'. Even Picerno himself was quoted saying exactly that in this article. If he was so understanding as to the way people felt why did he vote to spend 40 million on this unnecessary monstrosity? And this does not bring a few cases your way?
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
"And this does not bring a few cases your way?"
Don't see how. Only thing that would do that is more arrests. And that depends on number and activity of LEO's, not the number of jail beds.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
Dusty, Got it.
ohreally 2 years, 10 months ago
I just wonder how many criminals will stay behind bars longer with a larger detention center. It seems like many charges are reduced or sentences reduced and put on probation because there is not enough space to house inmates. Just a thought. You may now rant....
clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago
ohreally ~ Reduced sentences, house arrests, probation and dropped charges are common in Moore County according to a local bail bondsman and my personal attorney. One attorney made the comment that if you wanted to committ murder, robbery or rape in NC, Moore County was the place to do it.
ohreally 2 years, 10 months ago
That is my point exactly. Why is that though? We can only keep so many inmates in the d.c. at a time.
clbvpm 2 years, 10 months ago
ohreally ~ According to the Moore County website, the jail has 131 inmates at 6:15 pm today. They have 108 beds.
ohreally 2 years, 10 months ago
So do they sleep on the floor or share beds...
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
They sleep on pads on the floor.
clodfelter37 2 years, 10 months ago
You will not find two more honorable men than Nick Picerno and Larry Caddell. We should be proud that these fine men choose to serve our county. I know I am.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
clodfelter37
Are you related to Daniel G Clodfelter, State Senator from Mecklenberg County? He is originally from Thomasville, N.C. He is the sponsor of the new Bill S716 Ethics and Government Reform Changes currently in the N.C. House of Representatives. He is trying to strengthen the N.C. Conflict of Interest laws for State and County officials. The bill is currently on its third reading in the N.C. House of Representatives. It is meant to stop self interest politicians like Picerno and Caddell. I bet you are not related.
ASU88 2 years, 10 months ago
@Maude Maybe for just punishment we can make future convicted criminals visit your house for some of your "capitol punishment water" that flows through your faucet! The old courthouse in the circle is just that OLD. With old buildings comes old pipes...with old pipes comes not so good to drink water. This has nothing to do with the quality of the Town of Carthage's water supply. Six letters in one year re. water quality...more like two letters so state the facts not just your rants and raves. As a taxpayer I'm sure you can take your gourd to the courthouse and have your fill of the Mountain Spring water that is provided to workers as well as the public! Mountain Spring Water Company is a Moore County based company so Moore Co. purchases means Moore Co. business profits in this down economy! In case you have not heard, "The Detention Center Expansion is Coming to Carthage" If you don't like it take US 15-501 North or South, Hwy 24/27 East or West or NC Hwy 22 North or South and don't look back! Carthage has been here since 1776 and will be here long after you are gone! Note the word GONE! As they say in the City Barbershop on the Courthouse Circle, "Who's next?"
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
How about your buying the house across the street so you can watch it being built while you are eating your breakfast, lunch and supper each day? When inmates check out, they will need you to give them a ride somewhere or loan them money so they can get out of town.
ItsTheTruth 2 years, 10 months ago
Maybe it is unethical and maybe it was a generous donation from Southern Software. Either way I don't think Moore County was done any favors from receiving this software donation. Not only are two County Commissioners involved with this company, but they also have a once high ranking Sheriff Employee, Craig Goodnight, working for them. I would imagine there was some good old boy paybacks involved as well. Now, Neil Godfrey said the Sheriff's Office is pleased with the software but I doubt he is the one that actually uses the software. So I decided to ask some deputies and officers in the County myself. I asked 6 different deputies and 6 different city officers who use Southern Software. They tell me that not all the features work in the software and if there is a problem reported it is difficult to get Southern Software to support them. Well this made me think that perhaps all this discussion had tainted these officers opinion. I then looked at the customer list on Southern Software's website and called their customers from out of state and I received similar reports of things not working or problems getting stuff fixed. My findings tell me that Moore County was given a bucket of problems not only with ethics but operationally with the software. Since this involves public safety, I think our citizens deserve software that works and is not covered with a band-aide of a show-place public safety building. I am all for giving our emergency personnel the tools they need to do their job, but not if a commissioner is flexing his companies muscles to have bragging rights.
native 2 years, 10 months ago
It's time to cut this thread........quick......
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Thank you GodSaves for your kind remarks and support.
[July 5, 2010 at 2:11 p.m.] I see several matters of concern: First being a need of additional detention space. The issue is how the "sale" to the public is being perpetuated by those who are close to proponents’. Everyone on the Detention Center Committee was county employees with their chair Chief Deputy Neil Godfrey; conflict perhaps depending on who one might ask. One may question the logic when at least 50% of the members should have been composed of community representatives knowledgeable in infrastructure development.
Build Small ~ Spend Small: In this economic climate why should the taxpayers build such a huge complex? Is Carthage becoming a prison colony? As I've said before, if law enforcement needs as opposed to wants more bed space, add 50 - 75 beds at a time as opposed to a multi story complex projected to house inmates until they are shipped to DOC prisons. As some have alluded, there is an ulterior motive for such a large prison in downtown Carthage which would be to house inmate overflow from surrounding counties and federal inmates. No one has addressed property values in Carthage once this complex is certified for occupancy. In the end what will all residents of Carthage pay for this prison on their doorstep? The other question why not on the outskirts of town? There has been a prison on 15-501 North for decades until it was closed by the state. What’s wrong with that property? What about local construction businesses who are struggling to acquire one more project to keep their doors open? Smaller projects are easily handled by members of the Moore County Home Builders Association ~ and no I’m not a member. Instead with a 52.5 million dollar project few if any Moore County Contractors would qualify under existing licensing requirements to take on such a project. Why would the County have to hire an out-of-the county [Prime] General Contractor? We have our own primes and subcontractors. I was asked how anyone can build a small addition or building in a short span of time. Easy! I have provided a link to precast concrete walls. Completely engineered! We have electrical contractors, HVAC contractors, drywall contractors, painting, masonry, and steel fabrication contractors right here in Moore County. Their employees are taxpayers and their families shop locally. This whole project smells of politics and egos. It’s time to backup and regroup.
http://www.wbdg.org/design/env_wall_precast_concrete.php
None 2 years, 10 months ago
CONTINUED: The county appropriated a position for a Construction Manager @ $60,000.00 plus per year. What has this person been doing all of this time. Surely not providing an anaylsis for options and alturnitives. Evaluating bids from "home grown" construction companies. Some of these companies travel to larger cities to work as opposed to opportunities here at home.
It's no difference than attorneys coming from other counties to practice law in a Moore County Court. One less CLIENT and one less PAYCHECK.
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Toda will run as a write in, which is perfectly fine. But just for the record I would like to ask Toda some questions. 1. Would you vote as Jimmy Melton did for a tax decrease the last budget year, or would you vote with Tim Lea and Cindy Morgan against cutting taxes? 2. Would you have voted to cut the education budget while reimbursing them some of their capital funds and cut county government by 15%, and not raise taxes like Jimmy melton did, or would you vote with Tim Lea and Cindy Morgan against saving tax payers money, reforming the school budget, and cutting back county government? 3. Would you vote as Jimmy Melton did to reform the county's longevity pay policy which saved money for the taxpayer while still rewarding employees, or would vote against that like Tim Lea and Cindy Morgan did? 4. Considering the need for a jail what is your idea or policy regarding the jail? 5. What is your water policy? 6. Since you have classified yourself as a RINO, Republican in name only, then one would have to ask why are you still a registered republican? 7. Since you are a fan of President Obama, what policy that he has pursued do you disagree with if any? 8. Will you apologize to Southern Software employees, The Sheriff and his employees, and other individuals who you have smeared and belittled? 9. Will you condemn the radical views of Bert Patrick or do you share them? 10. Considering your incendiary rhetoric, do you believe that your are qualified to work with other individuals who you so despise, and how can you justify voting for yourself if you can't work with those whom you have attacked? In order to get things done, you have to work with others, can you honestly say that considering your rhetoric and track record?
None 2 years, 10 months ago
I would welcome a public debt between Jimmie Melton and Wayne Garner! Any time and any place! Just so you know, there are republicans and democrats and libertarians supporting my efforts. Part of the problem with the political climate in this county today - is "blind" association. Could that be a sound reason why so many are unaffiliated or independents or Libertarians in America today? I didn't agree blindly with George Bush or his policies, nor do I agree with Barack Obama - or Congress, nor do I agree with Jimmie, Larry or Nick. What happened to people thinking for themselves? Slander? I call it like I see it. No one has to agree with my opinions. But when one runs for office they are setting themselves up to public scrutiny for their decisions and policy. You or no one hasn’t said why we as taxpayers aren’t allowed to vote to spend our money? Why? Are we not smart enough to make informed decisions? Or are there subliminal ulterior motives due to Southern Software involvement.
You are a primary example of blind politics here in Moore County - being the spokesperson for the MC GOP, you've set a discerning president for some republicans. I look forward to debating the issues with Jimmie in the fall. Give him your list....
And I can’t criticize Tim Lea for not speaking to Larry Caddell. A person with his ego, doesn’t need any more recognition. Perhaps he should step aside from the Sandhills Community College Board of Directors since he is involved in budget decisions for the college and has failed to excuse himself from voting on budget approval. Has Jimmie Melton ever voted against Larry or Nick? The answer is no!
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Let the record show: That Toda did not answer any of the questions he was asked about his policies. He failed to answer whether or not he was for the tax decrease that Jimmy melton voted for last year. He failed to answer the question of whether he supported reforming the longevity pay policy like Jimmy Melton did. He failed to answer the question of what specific policies he disagreed with when it comes to his support for President Obama. He failed to specify what his plans or policies are regarding water policy for the county. He failed to condemn or distance himself from the slanderous rhetoric he has posted, the false claims he has made. He failed to answer why he as RINO, republican in name only, is still a member of a party that he apparently despises along with the conservative values that define it. He failed to answer the how with his rhetoric and vile assertions can he work with anyone on the board to get things accomplished? So this is the campaign platform for TODA 1. A RINO, republican in name only. 2. A supporter of President Obama and his agenda. 3. Teller of mistruths, false assertions, and scandalous lies 4. Compatriot of Bert Patrick 5. A man who doesn't support lower taxes, reforming of the Longevity pay policy, cutting county government by 15%, Funding our schools responsibly and within our means, and supporting our law enforcement and their families, and the safety of our citizens. 6. A one issue candidate ie the jail. 7. A candidate who runs not on what he can do for you or on a positive agenda, rather one of personal attacks, vindictiveness, and hatred.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Is that what I said? Your adlibbing again. Did Nicky or Larry tell you to say those things. I will repeat myself: I will debate Jimmie Melton and Wayne Garner any time and any place.
I'm I supposed to respond to you since you are the secretary for the GOP here in Moore County? I think not. Post what you will. Because I am!
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Let the record show? What? Are you transcribing these posts or do you think you are in a court with a transcriptionist? Record anything you want on or off the record....
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Once again Toda wants to debate with the current County Commissioner and Democratic nominee Wayne Garner, but he can't debate me?! 1. As a RINO, why are you still a republican and not an independent? 2. What policy that President Obama has and intends to pursue do you disagree with? 3. What is your plans or policy regarding water, infrastructure, county planning, and taxes. 4. If you are so different then Jimmy Melton then can we take that to mean that you disagree with his votes on a-lowering the tax rate last budget year. b-keeping the tax rate neutral this year in the midst for calls of higher taxes to offset the budget shortfall. c- Jimmy Melton's proposed 2-3 cent tax cut that was considered by the County manager this year before the budget shortfall prevented the tax cut as a possibility. d- Reforming the longevity pay policy which eliminated waste and created a better system for hard working employees. e- Funding education with what it needs not what it can get. The ball is in your court sir.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Here's what I said on the Detention Center"
[July 5, 2010 at 2:11 p.m.] I see several matters of concern: First being a need of additional detention space. The issue is how the "sale" to the public is being perpetuated by those who are close to proponents’. Everyone on the Detention Center Committee was county employees with their chair Chief Deputy Neil Godfrey; conflict perhaps depending on who one might ask. One may question the logic when at least 50% of the members should have been composed of community representatives knowledgeable in infrastructure development.
Build Small ~ Spend Small: In this economic climate why should the taxpayers build such a huge complex? Is Carthage becoming a prison colony? As I've said before, if law enforcement needs as opposed to wants more bed space, add 50 - 75 beds at a time as opposed to a multi story complex projected to house inmates until they are shipped to DOC prisons. As some have alluded, there is an ulterior motive for such a large prison in downtown Carthage which would be to house inmate overflow from surrounding counties and federal inmates. No one has addressed property values in Carthage once this complex is certified for occupancy. In the end what will all residents of Carthage pay for this prison on their doorstep? The other question why not on the outskirts of town? There has been a prison on 15-501 North for decades until it was closed by the state. What’s wrong with that property? What about local construction businesses who are struggling to acquire one more project to keep their doors open? Smaller projects are easily handled by members of the Moore County Home Builders Association ~ and no I’m not a member. Instead with a 52.5 million dollar project few if any Moore County Contractors would qualify under existing licensing requirements to take on such a project. Why would the County have to hire an out-of-the county [Prime] General Contractor? We have our own primes and subcontractors. I was asked how anyone can build a small addition or building in a short span of time. Easy! I have provided a link to precast concrete walls. Completely engineered! We have electrical contractors, HVAC contractors, drywall contractors, painting, masonry, and steel fabrication contractors right here in Moore County. Their employees are taxpayers and their families shop locally. This whole project smells of politics and egos. It’s time to backup and regroup.
http://www.wbdg.org/design/env_wall_p...
None 2 years, 10 months ago
What makes you Mr. Garrison so important that I should debate you. Are your remarks gathered from meetings you've attended? Or is Nick providing you with commentary?
Had you been on these boards long enough, you would have read my opinions on questions posed by your handlers. I'm sure you can go back to Letters to the Editor that I've had published over the past 8 years. Just check with Steve Bouser who is the Editor. He may have copies on file. Like I said, "just provide your list to Jimmie Melton", I'm look forward to our debate.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
" Reforming the longevity pay policy which eliminated waste and created a better system for hard working employees."
I have discussed this before on another board. So what happened to cost of living raises for county employees? The commissioners will have the taxpayers of this county on the hook for $200,000,000.00 in debt but can't afford to give the employees a small raise? What's with that? Have the "owners" of Southern Software received a raise lately?
JoeGarrison 2 years, 10 months ago
Once again not a single answer to the question.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Whose question? Do you want a public debate? Time and place will be of your choosing....who will be the moderators?
None 2 years, 10 months ago
BTW Joe are you running for an office? Now or later? Just asking since you want to have a debate.
Arestorer 2 years, 10 months ago
I was born and grew up here in Moore Co., I know all the players. I have stayed out of this debate because of this,,,,BUT, I cant beleive we (I) have a Representative that thinks 24K$ is not much money. I dont beleive HE has MY best interest at heart, nor the majority of the people here.
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
"Once again Toda wants to debate with the current County Commissioner and Democratic nominee Wayne Garner, but he can't debate me?!"
And The Needle! Don't forget, he wanted to debate The Needle!
Wait a second....you were so eager to debate ME, but you're too elevated in stature to debate Joe Garrison or the actual commissioners?
Or are you having trouble remembering things, old man?
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
Chuck, from the time stamps it seems the person who's been here all day is Toda, who started at 9:33 AM and is still going strong. Perhaps it's him you should be advising to look after business.
babiehop 2 years, 10 months ago
Congrats to The Pilot for regularly utilizing a columnist of such high caliber that his own comments do not follow the guidelines set forth here.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
"Whose question? Do you want a public debate? Time and place will be of your choosing....who will be the moderators?" July 7, 2010 at 3:03 p.m.
Needle you are reading fantom posts. Or adlibbing again!
I'll debate you, joe or anyone else who wants to address issues as opposed to fantom issues. But it has become obvious that these blogs are not about issues any longer; only attempts to discredit my character or engage in arguements for your ego. I'll stick to the issues and you do what you're comfortable doing. I have a thick skin and with so many supporting my efforts, perhaps November may change opinions.
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
babiehop, does ANYONE here follow any kind of guideline whatsoever? The Needle would suggest that you keep the fainting couch and smelling salts handy if you are so easily offended, because while Rhoades does offend against them, he's far from the only one.
(Yes, The Needle has decided to start referring to himself in the third person. A fit of whimsy has overtaken him)
TheNeedle 2 years, 10 months ago
"adlibbing again!"
Are you a native English speaker? Because you don't seem to know what common words actually mean.
For example, what does this word adlib mean to you? Because to the rest of the world it means:
v.tr. To improvise and deliver extemporaneously. v.intr. To engage in improvisation, as during delivery of a speech. n. (dlb) Words, music, or actions uttered, performed, or carried out extemporaneously. adj. Uttered, performed, or carried out spontaneously.
And this is a bad thing to you? Are all of your posts rehearsed or pre-written? The Needle is intrigued.
babiehop 2 years, 10 months ago
Needle, no, I'm not so easily offended and while the general decorum has gone the way of the mud puddle, I'd think the paper's editor would expect just a bit more of his own writers. Oh, wait - I'm feeling a tad bit light headed and had better go lie d..... ~~~~~thud~~~~~
None 2 years, 10 months ago
You have psychological and identity issues that should require medication! Keep it up and perhaps you'll get bumped again!!!
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
Back on Subject Matter: Conflict of Interest Joe Are you here again diverting attention away from the fact that your father in law was on the front page with Caddell. It seems the title read "Software 'Conflict" An Issue. The real issue is there Conflict of Interest here? It seems to me all you want to do is interrogate Toda to divert attention away from the fact that the heat is on your father in law. Dusty Rhoades uses the same tactic. Hmm. Does the Pilot use both of you? Hmm???
All bloggers. The best thing to do is chill these people out who are not keeping on the subject matter of the forum.. Do not respond to them. This way people who have something to say can actually write and someone with intelligence might respond. Get out of the sandbox you guys.
SoPinesNo1 2 years, 10 months ago
You raise hell TODA and I'll stomp my feet!
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
"Does the Pilot use both of you? "
Don't know about Joe, but, for the record, the Pilot never tells me what to write, has suggested topics on only two occasions I can remember (both of them a while back and neither of them having to do with the jail), and does not 'use" me for anything.
So much for the anonymous "plumblevel" "keeping on the subject matter of the forum."
As always, the outrage against "name calling" and allegedly off topic posts is totally selective, and depends upon whose side you're on. Anti-jail posters like Toda and his little band of malcontents are free to call names ("Mafia" anyone?) , use slander and innuendo, and attack people personally (all anonymously, of course) and people like "plumblevel" never say a word about it. But they get all huffy if they get the same treatment.
Con't
dustyrhoades 2 years, 10 months ago
con't:
BTW, as stated before, I have no connection to Caddell or Picerno (in fact, they most likely don't like me at all, for reasons we don't need to go into here). I am not related by blood or marriage to anyone involved in the jail decision, thanks for asking. And after all this time, no one has yet been able to come up with a coherent explanation of how a bigger jail would benefit a criminal defense and civil trial lawyer. I'm trying to keep people OUT of there, no matter what size it is.
The fact is, we either need a new jail, or we need to stop arresting people. Those are the choices. And I don't think law enforcement is going to go for the second one. Neither, I suspect, are the people of Moore County. The site picked is by no means perfect, but it's a shorter distance to the courthouse and thus less of a security risk than any alternatives. It provides for expansion, because I've got news for you, folks: this county and its law enforcement needs aren't going to get smaller. They're inevitably going to get larger, and quickly. It's just a fact. The last time we built a jail and courthouse, no one planned for that, which is why we are where we are now--trying desperately to avoid choking on the sheer volume of cases and inmates.
People like Toda who seem to want to spend all of their time looking back at Moore County's past risk strangling its future by refusing to plan for it. I grew up here in the 60's and 70's, and yes, I remember some of those places and things with great fondness. But they're gone, and we cannot turn back the hands of time and bring them back. We need to accept that this place is growing and ALL its infrastructure needs, including courts, jails and law enforcement, are going to have to grow with it.
Which leads us to the one immutable principle of economics: stuff costs money. Good stuff costs lots of it. It's easy to carp about every dime spent, and you can spin every one of those dimes as a "waste of taxpayer money" if you're willing to (1) play fast and loose with the truth; and (2) ignore the economic principles above.
Okay. I'm done. Toda is actually right about one thing, I've spent far more time and energy on this topic than I need to. And it really is like banging my head against a wall-- a wall constructed of brick after brick made from sheer block-headed ignorance and mortared with mud and bile.
There's an old saying about trying to teach pigs to sing that would be apropos here. So squeal away, and have fun rolling in the mud.
(Note: this is not a flounce, I'm just leaving this thread, not the boards :-))
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
Dusty I have not been called names and I stay out of Todas battles as I do not know him.Ironically you have done most of the name calling and the people blogging against this 50 million dollar bond are accused of using sleaze tactics?
No one is disputing there is a need for a new jail. Maybe your frustration is that you do not know that we all realize that need. It is the location and the cost.We do not need a 'prison' two football fields long for 600-840 prisoners in this economy. Why not build as you need it. Just double the size for now, build somewhere else, and do not borrow 50 million dollars when Moore County is already 104 million in debt. That is not rocket science.
Bflat 2 years, 10 months ago
Where will the new enlarged courthouse be built, and how much will it cost? Add that over and above the DC costs. It has been reported that it will not go on the Grimm-DC site, so therefore prisoners will have to be transported a distance away. We all know there is a need for the DC-Sheriff Dept-EMS, but we do not want it in Historic Downtown Carthage with the future potential of around 600 beds and at the cost of $50,000,000.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
Bflat I believe there are no plans for a new Court House but they plan to spend very little money in renovating the Old Courthouse and the current Courthouse. I heard they are planning to build either an underground tunnel or a catwalk between the two. Either way. Superior Court Judge Webb loses.Does not sound like a lot of expansion for the Court House.
Maybe the public will be so fed up with the money being spent on the Public Safety Complex that they will not just sit by when the Government Complex issue comes up. It appears for now the Public Safety Complex is getting the larger piece of the pie. Could the reason be that two of the Commissioners have self interest in Public Safety Software. Nope. Don't want to say that. Wouldn't it be nice if we had Town Meetings to ask all these questions.
None 2 years, 10 months ago
Dusty ~ "("Mafia" anyone?) , use slander and innuendo, and attack people personally (all anonymously, of course)"
I can't believe you are on another rant...I posted the definition for Mafia from The Random House Dictionary of the English Language - Second Edition UN Abridged. The triumvirate meets the definition to a Tee.
Anonymously? I have posted my name, bio, email address - so was there something I missed to keep me anonymous? If I didn't, you owe me a coffee ~ further misquotes and you might have to humble yourself and buy lunch. We’ll invite Frank. So keep it up and it could get costly.
BTW: I'm having fun with all of this so don't take too much personally. It's all about the facts - like in court.
And yes - there is a whole page on Facebook on "what Moore County used to be". I for one would like to see the tranquility of days gone by. I thought most of the people moving here for retirement were from other states and in some cases countries. Just one man's opinion here; but are we becoming another state and county like Arizona? If that complex - label it anyway one prefers - needs 600 or 800 beds in the future, someone ~ somehow is going to have to start developing upper Moore County and add a whole lot of under privileged or low income housing residents who make their living selling contraband. Pinehurst and Southern Pines is about build out - Carthage is going to scare everyone out, and Woodlake is about built out, so where is this projected influx of criminals coming from: truck or train? If they fly in on a commercial airline, then they have to be federal criminals. Just my thoughts?
In the words of that local law scholar Hubert H. "Chub" Seawell - call your next case.
plumblevel 2 years, 10 months ago
Toda The cells are designed at 82 sq. ft. for double bunking and Federal regulation.Doesn't that tell you something.It is the only way they can attempt to make it pay for itself and I do mean attempt. They have provided no statistics or info on how they plan to make it pay. You do not think the taxpayer has a right to know before they put Moore County on the line for a 50 million dollar limited obligation bond?