A Matter of Sacrilege
- Print print this page
- Discuss 31 comments, Blog about
Advertisement
In response to Paul Dunn’s column on Aug. 15, as I write this I am in the majority of the country who believe the proposed $100 million Islamic mosque is nothing more than an attempt to rub our noses in their despicable act of 9/11.
Obama indicated his desire to have it, and recanted — so to speak — later when public outcry was swift and sure.
In his syndicated article on Aug. 16, Charles Krauthammer called the proposed mosque at ground zero “a sacrilege.”
When you think of the proposed 15-story Islamic mosque and cultural center, you cannot help wondering about the amount of anti-American propaganda that could come out of a building that size. It is not hard to imagine them planning future acts of terrorism from within its walls or having fugitives/terrorists run to its sanctuary for protection from U.S. law.
And how long do think it will take them to begin to attempt to cause Sharia law to be accepted therein and for all Muslims living in New York? They did in England and France and are making an attempt in Scandinavia also. No, friends and neighbors, it is not freedom of religion for which they plan a mosque and cultural center.
Finally, I find it pathetic that Dunn would try to cause readers of his piece to feel guilty about all the Muslims — all those Middle Eastern names he mentioned — who died during the attack on 9/11. And then he suggests that the mosque could become a memorial to them and that we should accept that as a good-will gesture.
No, Paul, the idea is that America was attacked and we have lost many good men and women defending our way of life fighting terrorism in the Middle East to be that gullible.
Rodney K. Ward
Pinehurst
More like this story
Advertisement
Comments
JER 1 year, 9 months ago
Mr. Ward, Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic. Are Catholic churches used to recruit and train domestic terrorists? He was a member of the United States Army. Is the army a hotbed of domestic terrorist training? He was from the state of New York. Should we declare war on that state for producing such a deadly domestic terrorist? There are indeed some very gullible people in this world...the ones who parrot what their "news" sources tell them to think instead of thinking for themselves.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
Once again, the "all Muslims are anti-American terrorists" argument.
I expect another 100+ post thread full of people indignantly denying that that's what they're saying, then turning around and saying exactly that: that the mosque and cultural center shouldn't be built because "Muslims" commit acts of terrorism, as if all Muslims were the same, acted the same, or believed the same things about terrorism and about America.
Never mind the mosque sponsor's actual statements about peace, reconciliation, and rejection of terrorism, they'll say. He's lying, and we know he's lying, because "Muslims" lie. It's in a blog post they read somewhere.
Mark my words....
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
As for "sacrilege"...here's a list of some of the other things on that "sacred ground."
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/ground-zero-mosque-name-belies-distance-from-world-trade-center-site-other-local-realities/19590651
OldSpook 1 year, 9 months ago
"There are indeed some very gullible people in this world...the ones who parrot what their "news" sources tell them to think instead of thinking for themselves."
These are the people who don't believe the Muslims want to build on this site because of their custom to build a mosque designating a Muslim victory. Yes, I deal with this religion and its practitioners daily. We, as a country, have every reason to be very cautious of their motives. To deny them as a concern would be a very great mistake. Denying them this victory center at ground zero is just the right thing to do.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
Right on schedule...
OldSpook 1 year, 9 months ago
Prometheus, they have drunk deeply of the Kool Aid; Ignorance abounds...
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
"Denying them this victory center at ground zero is just the right thing to do."- OldSpook
I wholeheartedly agree. If this is supposed to be a gesture towards "peace" and "mutual respect" then why won't they move it? Can't they compromise if this is supposedly a symbol of "good will" & "healing"? They have heard the opposition and yet they insist on pouring salt into our open wounds. Now the "US-friendly" imam is saying that Americans have more blood on their hands than Al-Qaeda. Sickening.
eflat7 1 year, 9 months ago
Timothy McVeigh didn't do anything in the name of Catholicism. The terrorists yelled Allah Akbar right before they killed thousands. I definitely do not believe all Muslims are terrorists, but lately, most terrorists are Muslims.
If it quacks like a duck...
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
"Would it really be too much to ask that they occasionally support the home team or at least not cheer so loudly for the oppostion."-taxed2deth
That was awesome.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
It's like I have the gift of prophecy or something...
irkim13 1 year, 9 months ago
"Timothy McVeigh didn't do anything in the name of Catholicism." I thought he was a practicing atheist and found Christianity in prison.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
"Go read this Hitchens piece about the "good imam" - you lefties like Slate.com don't ya?"
Hitchens hates Islam, just as he hates ALL religions. It was particularly funny to see him go on shows like Hannity's as a supposed "conservative" because of his support for the Gulf War, then get tossed off the set when he started teeing off on the idea of celebrating Christmas.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
But while you're quoting Hitch:
"The dispute over the construction of an Islamic center at "Ground Zero" in Lower Manhattan has now sunk to a level of stupidity that really does shame the memory and the victims of that terrible day in September 2001. One might think that a mosque or madrassa was being proposed in the place of the fallen towers themselves or atop the atomized ingredients of what was once a mass grave."
And:
"Two weeks ago, I wrote that the arguments against the construction of the Cordoba Initiative center in lower Manhattan were so stupid and demagogic as to be beneath notice. Things have only gone further south since then, with Newt Gingrich's comparison to a Nazi sign outside the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum or (take your pick from the grab bag of hysteria) a Japanese cultural center at Pearl Harbor. The first of those pseudo-analogies is wrong in every possible way, in that the Holocaust museum already contains one of the most coolly comprehensive guides to the theory and practice of the Nazi regime in existence, including special exhibits on race theory and party ideology and objective studies of the conditions that brought the party to power. As for the second, there has long been a significant Japanese-American population in Hawaii, and I can't see any reason why it should not place a cultural center anywhere on the islands that it chooses. "
Hey, Prom, you brought him up.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
It's also particularly amusing that you'd lionize Hitchens, that accomplished purveyor of deliciously eloquent vitriol, considering how you supposedly have this aversion to "name calling."
(I actually enjoy reading Hitchens, even when I disagree with him. No one can rip into someone like Hitch does).
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
Prom quotes Anwar Al-Awlaki, a radical "cleric" who's been approved for "targeted killing" by Barack Obama (thus outraging ACTUAL liberals), to justify his opposition to a mosque and cultural center that's sponsored and promoted by an entirely different person, one who's repeatedly stated that terrorism is un-Islamic.
And he says he's not lumping all Muslims together.
I think I predicted this discussion pretty well, mauiman.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
So we both agree with Hitchens that many of the arguments against the construction of the Cordoba Initiative center in lower Manhattan are so stupid and demagogic as to be beneath notice?
That's me, always trying to find common ground...
OldSpook 1 year, 9 months ago
Wow, talk about leading and deliberately misinterpreting your opponent! Very nice piece of work worthy of a good lawyer. Well done! Point Dusty.
eflat7 1 year, 9 months ago
You would think that if the majority of Americans (NYC'ers too) opposed the Mosque, even if it is legal and they have every right to be there, the supposedly peaceful Muslims would try and maintain good relations with Americans and realize it is opening old wounds.
I think everyone knows that legally they have a right to be where they want to be, but even if it is stupid to some, the majority of people are having issues with it.
Why would they not try and be peaceful and understanding and find another piece of real estate somewhere else?
eflat7 1 year, 9 months ago
There are lot's of things you don't "have" to do, but do them anyway just because it is the right thing to do. I think this is one of them.
duke_one 1 year, 9 months ago
To all of those opposed to the Mosque:
Following your logic we must now close all Christian churches that are near a sight of an abortion clinic bombing since most of them were carried out by people who were doing it in the name of Jesus.
It seems funny that the same people who want to throw out people's religious rights are the same people who will argue so strongly for people's rights to own guns. So what you're saying is that your support for the constitution depends on how you feel that day.
irkim13 1 year, 9 months ago
"Following your logic we must now close all Christian churches that are near a sight of an abortion clinic bombing since most of them were carried out by people who were doing it in the name of Jesus."
Big difference is that Christians loudly condemn these actions and any other like them as they are NOT based on Christian Ideology.
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
duke-one: This is not about religious freedom. This is about political doctrine, jihad, sharia law, etc. Mosques have been and are currently being used for recruitment centers for terrorists. Where exactly is the money for this Cordoba House coming from? I echo eflat7's post. They know exactly what they're doing & why they're doing it. That is precisely what's wrong. If their intentions were to be respectful & not ruffle feathers then they're failing miserably.
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
Well said James.
Their goal is to forcibly spread Islam all over the globe. They feel that Israel should be wiped off the map. Jews have no right to exist. Non-Muslims are the enemy. Their goal is to conquer & rule. This mosque is a symbol of their cause. This is a test. Just wait & see...
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
"Their goal" "They feel" "Their goal" (again) "Their cause"
And you assume that "Cordoba House " is part of "them" for what reason?
Because you make no differentiation between different schools of thought among Muslims.
You're all doing exactly what I predicted.
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
Good DR, because "they" will do exactly what I (and many others) predicted.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
"Perhaps it is imam Rauf's own words. He refuses to condemn Hamas,"
An oft-repeated lie is still a lie:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/36965_Cordoba_House_Developers-_Hamas_Does_Not_and_Will_Not_Speak_For_Us
The Cordoba Initiative’s Web site elaborates:
“Imam Feisal has always condemned terrorism (see his ... hundreds of speeches). Hamas is both a political movement and a terrorist organization. Hamas commits atrocious acts of terror. Imam Feisal has forcefully and consistently condemned all forms of terrorism, including those committed by Hamas, as un-Islamic.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/nyregion/22imamfacts.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&adxnnlx=1282602315-wOuWqe3j16kws7reOuk2vg
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
I'm sure you have access to the internet and can confirm in 10 minutes that what I say is 100% accurate.""
http://www.tnr.com/blog/foreign-policy/77176/ground-zero-mosque-the-subversive-theology-imam-rauf-contd
"The imam goes on to say that these documents [the American Declaration of Independence and Constitution.”] “express the Islamic ideal, which is itself but an expression of the Abrahamic ethic.” Yes, “the American Constitution and system of governance uphold the core principles of Islamic law.” And here’s a way of putting it that never tempted Sarah Palin or Newt Gingrich: “The overarching American religion that all Americans live under is ‘Islamic’ in the sense that it is fully compliant with and expresses the Islamic Shariah.” In Rauf’s understanding, Sharia is predicated on religious pluralism, which is “a fundamental human right under Islamic law.”
In fact—don’t tell Sean Hannity—it’s too late to resist. Satan is well ensconced here. “America is substantively an ‘Islamic’ country, by which I mean a country whose systems remarkably embody the principles that Islamic law requires of a government.”
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
"I'll score you a few more "audacity points" for linking to Charles Johnson after your denigration of Pam Gellar."
I've actually spoken highly of Johnson as a sane conservative on more than one occasion:
DUSTY RHOADES: Reasons for Breaking With the Right
DUSTY RHOADES: Refreshing Voices of Sanity on Right
"- he simply did not answer the question."
And later he did.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
"ask my webmaster...he just might."
Claiming that a statement issued on the organization's website is "just something the webmaster said" is just plain silly.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
"many here view imam Rauf, and his refusal to personally and publically condemn Hamas, as "just plain dangerous.""
And they are just plain silly as well.
ewpguy 1 year, 9 months ago
Count me among the silly.
While the building of the Mosque/Community Center is completely legal, as far as I can tell, it seems illogical and insensitive. If it is finding such resistance why would anyone, or group, wish to force themselves? Again, I see it as completely within the right given any entity to establish itself where ever it so chooses(within zoning laws etc.), I personally don't understand why there.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
"You have the right, but you're a bad person for using it?"
I'll be glad to follow your request to count you among the silly.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
James: you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Rauf has, through the organizations which he runs, condemned Hamas. Continuing to assert, on the basis of one quote, that he hasn't is not only silly, but dishonest.
ewpguy 1 year, 9 months ago
Simply because you have the right does not make it Right.
irkim13 1 year, 9 months ago
I agree ewpguy If this Imam is such a bridge builder why would he persist in building this center at the proposed location when he knows at least 70% of the country and 60% of New Yorkers oppose it? What kind of bridge is he building? Also, I do not know, but does anyone know if infidels will be allowed in this building? I'm just curious.
BigE 1 year, 9 months ago
My only "concern" is that Americans value honesty, freedom, and human rights. When we group all Liberals or all Muslims or all Hispanics into a homogeneous group we are not expressing what is great about America. We are showing the weakness that result from fear, ignorance, and predjudice. Strength is not achieved with bigger guns or louder voices or via intimidation, it is the result of wisdom, confidence, and fairness.
Ideology is trumping rationale and that is not going to make us the great nation that you all claim to want for America.
BigE 1 year, 9 months ago
Idiots, kooks, lefties... really? Do you honestly believe these are useful in advancing your ideas and winning a debate?
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
Sally244 1 year, 9 months ago
I sure hope everyone here gets their issues off their chests because in this country a Mosque CAN be built two blocks away from ground zero. No matter how many arguments you come up with it can be built and probably will be. If not, then this country will be led by fear, hate and prejudice sending us back to the days of slavery.
Nitpick all you want, but any decision other than allowing it will have enormous consequences to every law we have. This has been a smoldering year of hate for the immigrants, hate for the religious right, hate for same sex marriage, hate for abortion, hate for Muslims, hate for Obama..... it's becoming an endless list.
It's easy to complain but it takes thought and intelligence to come up with positive solutions.
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
Prometheus-You are very wise & you couldn't give a more succinct description. At some point, these people will have no choice but to "wise up". Some people are hung up on cotton candy ideals and refuse to grasp reality.
We have a dire situation here and it's only going to get worse. Allow terrorists an inch and they'll take a mile. They'll keep pushing us. They will not give up.
moonchild7 1 year, 9 months ago
Prometheus, You've NEVER drunk the KOOL-AID? Gee, now I know why all of you "over there" have trouble knowing right from wrong. You've never experienced what life is like outside your miserable bodies.
PURPLE HAZE
WHITER SHADE OF PALE
STRAWBERRY FIELDS FOREVER
LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED
MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR
Yeah, reality is such a bummer. Don't think I'll have a dose. Instead I think I might live in LA LA Land with all the other people who believe it's possible to forgive but not forget. Such an awful way to live. Don't you think?
BigE 1 year, 9 months ago
What "political correctness" are thee referring to? Define political correctness for us. Give examples and explain the difference between common courtesy and being PC. I'd like to know what the standard is.
For example, when someone prays at your house before dinner and you think there is as much chance of there being a supreme being as there is in there being a Tooth Fairy, is it PC or courtesy when you just let it slide and not interrupt your guest's ritual?
BigE 1 year, 9 months ago
Huh? Was there something coherent there?
Barry_Dangerous 1 year, 9 months ago
The Defense Department reported 3,409 Muslims on active military duty as of April 2008, how does that figure into your "thinking" taxed2deth?
BigE 1 year, 9 months ago
@Chief- I get your view on that example but without knowing who you are referring to as being PC (the media, the White House, the Liberals) let me play Devil's Advocate. A) The reason to be conservative on labelling from the "get go" is that you might want to wait for the facts to come out. B) One might choose to identify allies across the table as part of diplomacy. Let's say you're trying to enlist moderate Muslims to help you in your conflict with radicals. (Whether you agree with that approach or not, it is a legitimate strategy.) What good would it do to alienate your "friends." I'm not trying to demean Bush, but really, what good came from his "Axis of Evil" comment.
Ross 1 year, 9 months ago
Dusty - while I do admire your persistence, you are trying to reason with the unreasonable. The far right here have cement between the ears and this will never change. They always react out of fear and hatred except of course Prometheus who simply likes to read his own posts!
Ross 1 year, 9 months ago
taxed2deth - well - at least you admit it!
choosing between the two - I would rather have the icon!
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
James-That was classic!!! Well done.
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
Yep, certain races are nothing more than political pawns to the democrats.
MikeNC 1 year, 9 months ago
Dear Barry Dangerous- Actually, the Muslims in the U S Military may be closer to 11,000 and 20,000. But the Muslims in the U S Military, are not the ones who bought the property and are building the 15 story Mosque and cultural center. The ninth anniversary of 9/11 is just around the corner, and many of us probably have certain images of that day pressed in our minds. Mine is when the TV cameras showed a far off image of a man and woman holding each others hand as they lept from the upper story window of the last trade tower. It was either burn to death or jump. the other image I have is when it was announced on the news, that one of the victims on Flight 93, was an infant. The People on that plane chose the life of that baby to save lives in Washington DC. I wonder how people would see this issue, if the passengers had done nothing, and let the plane hit either the White House or Capitol Building, killing perhaps politicians and perhaps even the President.
It's truly Unbelievable that America has to even take issue with this unreasonable situation. The door of tolerance swings both ways. Let the Iman of the Future Cordoba Mosque be the one to show tolerance and understanding. Diane McLellan
BigE 1 year, 9 months ago
@Chief- Oh brother! You might want to do some research. I think the Russian/Iranian nuclear relationship goes back further than the Obama months in office.
All these complaints about political correctness and yet instead of just being really honest and saying, "I don't like Obama because he is (half) black," you guys make up all sorts of other artificial reasons for disliking him. LOL, if that's not the ultimate in being PC!!! Come on. Be honest. Be true to yourself. Drop an N-bomb or two. Let it all out. Release that anger. You'll feel a lot better.
Ross 1 year, 9 months ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
username 1 year, 9 months ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
dustyrhoades 1 year, 9 months ago
"there is absolutly [sic] no doubt that Islam is at war with us"
Nope, you're sure not lumping all Muslims together there....
username 1 year, 9 months ago
dusty is a gentleman and a scholar.
moonchild7 1 year, 9 months ago
Sorry James. No Pina Colada for me. Never took to that lame a drink or that lame a life. I wasn't the sell-out hypocite like so many others. There are alotta lessons to be learned here from these intolerant barbs that go back and forth. Maybe what you guys need is a little dose of Sabbath. Here's my favorite:
Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerers of death's construction In the fields the bodies burning As the war machine keeps turning Death and hatred to mankind Poisoning their brainwashed minds Oh lord yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor
Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait 'til their judgement day comes Yeah!
Now in darkness world stops turning Ashes where the bodies burning No more war pigs have the power Hand of God has struck the hour Day of judgement, God is calling On their knees the war pig's crawling Begging mercy for their sins Satan laughing spreads his wings Oh lord yeah!
The intolerant Muslims are laughing at the intolerant Americans and they are probably planning more "hits" because of it. The more moderate Muslims in America want to help bring their more moderate beliefs such as women's and gay rights to Islam. We need to help them do it for everyone's sake.
Oh, and for those unfamiliar with "that song" it's called, WAR PIGS. It's in my Top Ten best song's written of all time along with:
SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL
HELTER SKELTER
ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER
BREAK ON THRU TO THE OTHER SIDE
BACK IN BLACK
Maybe you guy's could learn something if you listened to those songs.
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
Connor knocked that out of the park. ZING!
teufelhunden 1 year, 9 months ago
Ok, I understand moonchild7 a little better now.