With architects' sketches already on the table, county officials are revisiting an old idea and facing up to new questions about its possibilities.

Three Moore County commissioners met with county officials and a LandDesign staffer recently to examine the Carriage Oaks property as the possible site for a county government office building.

Brent Martin of LandDesign said the footprint of the initial building plan designed by architect Katherine Peele of the LS3P Boney firm will fit into the Carriage Oaks corner adjacent to U.S. 15-501 and across the road from the Veterans Memorial site.

However, he pointed out that the county might want a different design for a new setting, since Peele designed the building for placement on the 21-acre tract located several blocks away in downtown Carthage.

The commissioners have taken no action yet and remain unsure exactly which direction to take.

Board Chairman Nick Picerno said Monday that he needs more information about both sites and about the projected needs of the county's court system before he can make a decision. He asked County Manager Cary McSwain to arrange a meeting with resident Superior Court Judge James Webb to discuss these issues.

"I'm not sure Moore County is ready for three courthouses in Carthage," Picerno said.

He was referring to an idea advanced by Commissioner Tim Lea at a work session last week. Lea told fellow commissioners that Webb and former Clerk of Court Catherine Graham have predicted that eventually the county will need a much larger building for the court system than the present Courts Facility, which was built in the late 1970s.

A Third Courthouse?

If such a building were to be erected on the Grimm property, it would be the third "courthouse" in downtown Carthage. The historic courthouse, dating to 1922, would remain, as would the nearby Courts Facility.

The Grimm property is large enough for the office building and the detention center-public safety facility, but not large enough for a third building for judicial purposes. The detention center is being designed for future growth, with the expectation that by 2030, the county may need a jail large enough to accommodate 600 or more inmates. Such a huge building would gobble up much of the remaining land in the parcel.

But what if a much larger court building is needed? Where would it go? Would it be more expensive to build such a facility in another location? If the Grimm tract is the most suitable site, then how much will it cost to re-do the architectural plans for a government office building on the Carriage Oaks complex? These were just a few of the questions debated by Picerno, Lea and Commissioner Cindy Morgan during the informal field trip Monday.

Answers were few.

Wetlands an Issue

Use of the Carriage Oaks property for county office buildings is not a new concept. LandDesign was asked to analyze the Carriage Oaks site two years ago, about the same time the county decided to buy the Grimm property, which abuts the existing jail. The Board of Commissioners finally opted to buy the Grimm property for expansion of the jail and construction of a public safety facility and a county office building. The decision was an easy one because of the site's location adjacent to the jail and its proximity to the Courts Facility.

The Carriage Oaks property, about 21.5 acres, was acquired in the 1990s to accommodate the Department of Social Services, an agency that had been scattered into three different locations across the county for a number of years. The sprawling building once used as a supermarket was converted into DSS quarters. Other parts of that building are now used for the Department of Planning and Community Development, inspections and Environmental Health. One space is leased to the Subway franchise.

Martin called both sites, Carriage Oaks and the downtown tract, "fairly clean" and suitable for an office building.

The LandDesign staffer pointed out that both sites have wetlands that cannot be used for development, but he was unsure exactly how far the wetlands extend. He said it is likely that the Army Corps of Engineers would increase the wetlands designation to more than the three and a half acres that LandDesign estimated when it did the original analysis two years ago.

"The Corps is getting more aggressive about identifying wetlands," Martin said.

Martin said that the footprint for Katherine Peele's architectural design of the office building would fit into the section of Carriage Oaks that abuts the highway and is presently unused. He said space for the required additional parking could be provided on the other side of the road and across from the Veterans Memorial.

Lea said a staff parking lot could be developed behind the DSS building. He said that the building could be redesigned into a three-story structure to allow more space for landscaping and parking.

Another site behind the DSS building was also visited, but this is the area closest to the wetlands and is a more remote location. This area is somewhat smaller than the grassy area beside the highway. This option might require acquisition of more property and possibly a right of way acquisition.

Already Crowded

The county paid $1.5 million for the Grimm property in 2007. The intention at that time was expansion of the overcrowded jail and construction of a public safety building and an office building. The plan calls for moving the Sheriff's Department from the basement of the Courts Facility into the enlarged detention center and for transferring Emergency Medical Services, Public Safety personnel and emergency communications from the Currie Building into the Public Safety Building.

In a study carried out a few years ago, private consultant Steve Allan of the Solutions for Local Governments firm advised the county that the emergency communications staff and equipment were at risk in the basement of the Currie Building.

The offices of the county manager, county attorney, tax, planning, inspections, finance, human resources, geographic information services, information technology and related services are to be relocated into the office building. Present facilities are cramped and were not designed for many modern technological needs, such as computers, and parking is a problem in downtown Carthage. The new building will feature a modernized meeting room for the Board of Commissioners.

Sketches of the proposed buildings were presented last week. Under the latest plan, the detention center expansion will be constructed adjacent to the existing jail, enabling the use of beds already in use, and the public safety facilities will be built into the same structure but in a separate area. And the office building would be erected farther to the south facing McNeill Street. The wetlands area would be converted into a pond set amid appropriate landscaping. The two buildings are designed for placement far enough apart to avoid security risks.

But at the work session last week, Lea suggested that the board take a second look at the plan and think about moving the office building to Carriage Oaks. He said the county is likely to run into more space issues in the future when the Courts Facility becomes inadequate and a new building is needed. Lea quoted the judge and the former clerk as saying a much bigger building will be needed to accommodate the courts in years to come.

The present Courts Facility is already crowded at times, and on occasion a few court sessions have been moved to the old courtroom in the historic courthouse across the street. The Board of Commissioners now uses the former courtroom for its meetings.

McSwain said the old courtroom works for a limited number of smaller, less controversial court sessions but cannot be used for jury trials in more controversial cases. The historic courthouse has inadequate space for jurors, for restrooms, and other facilities not needed for court sessions in earlier years.

Question Left Open

Victor Walk, the county's project manager, pointed out that once the sheriff and his staff vacate the Courts Facility basement, there will be space available for another courtroom. His comment left open another question for Judge Webb and the new clerk of court, Susan Hicks.

Both pieces of property present design challenges for architects. In addition to the wetlands, both tracts have slopes that must be considered in placement of buildings and their design.

The office building design by Peele is a two-story structure with a basement. The detention center-public safety facility is being designed by the Ware-Bonsall firm to provide for expansion of the jail as the population grows. The design by Glenn Ware would accommodate 256 inmates, a reduced number from the original projection of 288 beds. The reduction was needed because of financial restrictions imposed by the economic slowdown.

Once the new buildings are occupied, what happens to the buildings being vacated?

When the planning, inspections, and environmental health offices are moved to the new office building, their offices will be immediately available for use by Social Services. This usage is obvious.

The Moore County Library Board of Trustees has already put in a bid for consideration when the public safety people are moved to their new building. The library is hemmed in at a busy corner across the street from the jail, and although parking lots are on the other side of two streets, there is no parking area for library patrons. There is no room for expansion in that site, but the library could use the Currie Building next door.

Structures Being Vacated

With departure of EMS and emergency management, Sandhills Community Action Program will be the only agency occupying the Currie Building. SCAP is an independent nonprofit supported by federal funds dating to the Lyndon Johnson administration's War on Poverty initiative.

The Finance Office will be vacating the one-story brick building on Ray Street across from the side of the Currie Building. That structure, which once housed the Cooperative Extension Service, will be vacant.

This leaves the historic courthouse, centering a traffic circle in downtown Carthage. The four-level structure is surrounded by towering oak trees, the grounds dotted by monuments to President Andrew Johnson, who once lived in Carthage, and to James McConnell, the World War I hero who made his home in Carthage until he joined the French Army as a pilot and never returned. A smaller monument marks the county's bicentennial, and the obelisk memorial to McConnell is flanked by faux cannons.

The old courthouse is admired for its stately elegance. The building has been carefully maintained and now has an elevator that travels to two levels. The courtroom could be used for ceremonial occasions, although acoustics are not good despite numerous improvements through the years.

Some observers say it's a good place for a museum.

Contact Florence Gilkeson at 947-4962 or by e-mail at florence@thepilot.com.