I never accused anyone here of being a bad person. However, you keep referring to my beliefs versus your beliefs. I don't believe that I am gay, I know that I am gay. It is a fact. What I am asking for is that people try to see things from another perspective. Try to understand what it would be like to be told that you can't have the ability to marry the person you love because of something you can't change about yourself. I have not made any choices that have prevented me from being able to get married, I have not harmed anyone, nor would my marriage harm anyone. I am in love with someone who loves me back. What is so wrong with that? Why should we be denied the opportunity to have our commitment to each other recognized in the same way as everyone else? Throughout all of these posts, no one has offered an actual answer to why gay people should be denied the right to marry other than their own personal beliefs. Is that fair? Is that legal? How would you feel if it were you?
Didn't God create man? How do you know that he didn't choose for certain people to be gay? There is evidence of homosexuality in all species on the earth. There is evidence of homosexuality dating back very far into human history. Maybe it is part of God's plan. The Bible states many things, and people like to pick and choose which parts to believe, for some reason. I myself like to look at the overall message. God is love, judge not lest ye be judged, and love thy neighbor as thyself. God is the only one who can judge man for his sins. I personally don't care what the reason is for why I am gay. I accept the fact that God made me this way and that God loves me. I live a good life, help out in the community, and have a committed, monogamous relationship. When I come before God to be judged, I am confident that I will be welcomed with open arms for embracing the life that he has given me fully and not wasting it trying to tell others how to live theirs.
Fred, at no point in my life did I choose to be gay. No one chooses to be gay. If they did, then logically, people would have to make a choice to be straight as well. Do you go through a checklist when you look at a woman to determine if you are attracted to her or not? More than likely, it is just a primal instinct, you either feel something or you don't. Why is it so hard for you to believe that gay people can have those same instincts for members of their own gender? I have an emotional connection with a man that I have never had with a woman. We love each other, just as you and your wife love each other. The only difference is that the law will recognize your relationship, but not mine. Saying that you don't hate gay people and wouldn't do anything violent against them is great. On the other hand, if people stand back and do nothing while a group of people is discriminated against, aren't they just as much to blame as the people doing the discrimination? Don't you think that Civil Rights would have come much sooner if more people had spoken up rather than said, "It's not my problem."? I don't think that you are a terrible person, I just think that you are refusing to see that being gay is not a choice. Since you are not gay, you can't possibly understand the feelings that a gay person has. Therefore, it is not right for you to assume that gay people are making a choice, when I can tell you from my own personal experience, there is no choice in the matter. It is who I am. Ask yourself this, what would be the benefits of choosing to be gay? I don't have any desire to be anyone other than who I am. But please don't marginalize me or my relationship by trying to say it's not real simply because you don't understand it.
I haven't taken your posts as bashing gays at all, actually. However, the stance of two people pledging not to reproduce would be an illegality in itself that no court would uphold. We cannot as a nation begin deciding who can and cannot reproduce as that would become a rather slippery slope. I think that when harm is potentially being inflicted upon one of the individuals in the marriage or a third person as a result of the marriage, then that form of marriage should be disallowed. But that is not the case in gay marriage.
I have been in a loving and committed relationship with the same man for 6 years. By this point most heterosexual couples would have been married, and sadly, in many cases, already divorced. There is no logical reason why I should be denied the ability to marry the man I love and share the same legal rights that come along with a marriage as everyone else in America.
Well, people involved in incest are actually causing harm to a third party if they reproduce; so there is a reason why that should not be allowed. As far as bigamy goes, I don't agree with it, but you are right, there is no legal reason to say that consenting adults cannot enter into an arrangement like that if they want to. But again, being gay is not a choice, it is an inborn trait; therefore, it is not in the same category.
Why should we as a society want to try to prevent people from being gay? Who is it harming? The only reason anyone gets harmed because of being gay is because of bullies who think that they can preach to the world about what is "right" or "wrong". I don't think that genetically altering people to be the same would be the appropriate solution to the issue of gay marriage.
Also, marriage is not "universally" recognized as the unit between one man and one woman. Many Westernized countries recognize same sex marriage. The United States is one of the few Western countries that still does not.
It doesn't. But isn't the point of the amendment the Republicans have been trying to push into the US Constitution, and have pushed into many state constitutions, saying that there is one, so long as you are a heterosexual couple?
Yet again, you are equating gay marriage with bigamists and now incestual couples. Marriage should be between to consenting adults. Bigamists and couples involved in incest are making a choice. Gay people are not. Why are we being denied our rights? You have made it clear in your posts that you feel that gay marriage should not be allowed, so yes, you are part of the group denying gay people their rights as well. The more people sit back and say nothing, the more injustice is allowed to continue in this country.
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
I never accused anyone here of being a bad person. However, you keep referring to my beliefs versus your beliefs. I don't believe that I am gay, I know that I am gay. It is a fact. What I am asking for is that people try to see things from another perspective. Try to understand what it would be like to be told that you can't have the ability to marry the person you love because of something you can't change about yourself. I have not made any choices that have prevented me from being able to get married, I have not harmed anyone, nor would my marriage harm anyone. I am in love with someone who loves me back. What is so wrong with that? Why should we be denied the opportunity to have our commitment to each other recognized in the same way as everyone else? Throughout all of these posts, no one has offered an actual answer to why gay people should be denied the right to marry other than their own personal beliefs. Is that fair? Is that legal? How would you feel if it were you?
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
So you feel that gay people should be allowed to get married as long as they are not recognized by the government as such? Gee, thanks.
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
Didn't God create man? How do you know that he didn't choose for certain people to be gay? There is evidence of homosexuality in all species on the earth. There is evidence of homosexuality dating back very far into human history. Maybe it is part of God's plan. The Bible states many things, and people like to pick and choose which parts to believe, for some reason. I myself like to look at the overall message. God is love, judge not lest ye be judged, and love thy neighbor as thyself. God is the only one who can judge man for his sins. I personally don't care what the reason is for why I am gay. I accept the fact that God made me this way and that God loves me. I live a good life, help out in the community, and have a committed, monogamous relationship. When I come before God to be judged, I am confident that I will be welcomed with open arms for embracing the life that he has given me fully and not wasting it trying to tell others how to live theirs.
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
Fred, at no point in my life did I choose to be gay. No one chooses to be gay. If they did, then logically, people would have to make a choice to be straight as well. Do you go through a checklist when you look at a woman to determine if you are attracted to her or not? More than likely, it is just a primal instinct, you either feel something or you don't. Why is it so hard for you to believe that gay people can have those same instincts for members of their own gender? I have an emotional connection with a man that I have never had with a woman. We love each other, just as you and your wife love each other. The only difference is that the law will recognize your relationship, but not mine. Saying that you don't hate gay people and wouldn't do anything violent against them is great. On the other hand, if people stand back and do nothing while a group of people is discriminated against, aren't they just as much to blame as the people doing the discrimination? Don't you think that Civil Rights would have come much sooner if more people had spoken up rather than said, "It's not my problem."? I don't think that you are a terrible person, I just think that you are refusing to see that being gay is not a choice. Since you are not gay, you can't possibly understand the feelings that a gay person has. Therefore, it is not right for you to assume that gay people are making a choice, when I can tell you from my own personal experience, there is no choice in the matter. It is who I am. Ask yourself this, what would be the benefits of choosing to be gay? I don't have any desire to be anyone other than who I am. But please don't marginalize me or my relationship by trying to say it's not real simply because you don't understand it.
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
I haven't taken your posts as bashing gays at all, actually. However, the stance of two people pledging not to reproduce would be an illegality in itself that no court would uphold. We cannot as a nation begin deciding who can and cannot reproduce as that would become a rather slippery slope. I think that when harm is potentially being inflicted upon one of the individuals in the marriage or a third person as a result of the marriage, then that form of marriage should be disallowed. But that is not the case in gay marriage.
I have been in a loving and committed relationship with the same man for 6 years. By this point most heterosexual couples would have been married, and sadly, in many cases, already divorced. There is no logical reason why I should be denied the ability to marry the man I love and share the same legal rights that come along with a marriage as everyone else in America.
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
Well, people involved in incest are actually causing harm to a third party if they reproduce; so there is a reason why that should not be allowed. As far as bigamy goes, I don't agree with it, but you are right, there is no legal reason to say that consenting adults cannot enter into an arrangement like that if they want to. But again, being gay is not a choice, it is an inborn trait; therefore, it is not in the same category.
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
Why should we as a society want to try to prevent people from being gay? Who is it harming? The only reason anyone gets harmed because of being gay is because of bullies who think that they can preach to the world about what is "right" or "wrong". I don't think that genetically altering people to be the same would be the appropriate solution to the issue of gay marriage.
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
Also, marriage is not "universally" recognized as the unit between one man and one woman. Many Westernized countries recognize same sex marriage. The United States is one of the few Western countries that still does not.
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
It doesn't. But isn't the point of the amendment the Republicans have been trying to push into the US Constitution, and have pushed into many state constitutions, saying that there is one, so long as you are a heterosexual couple?
Kev1972 2 years, 2 months ago
Ban on Gay Marriage: Solution in Search of a Problem
Yet again, you are equating gay marriage with bigamists and now incestual couples. Marriage should be between to consenting adults. Bigamists and couples involved in incest are making a choice. Gay people are not. Why are we being denied our rights? You have made it clear in your posts that you feel that gay marriage should not be allowed, so yes, you are part of the group denying gay people their rights as well. The more people sit back and say nothing, the more injustice is allowed to continue in this country.